2010 Motegi MotoGP Race Result - Comfortable Victory But Bitter Battle For Podium

Results and summary of the MotoGP race in Japan:

Casey Stoner has won his second race in a row at Japan, taking what turned out to be a comfortable victory after fighting off a tough challenge from Andrea Dovizioso for most of the race. Valentino Rossi and his putative teammate Jorge Lorenzo had a vicious dust-up in the later laps which saw Rossi emerge victorious, taking the final spot on the podium, and leaving Lorenzo off the podium for the second race in a row. Lorenzo's 4th place finish means he will need to race at Sepang to secure the 2010 World Championship.

Andrea Dovizioso made good on his first ever pole position, leading off the line and into turn 1, but his eagerness got the better of him, and the Italian ran his Repsol Honda a little wide, all Casey Stoner to slot his Marlboro Ducati past at Turn 2 and into the lead. Valentino Rossi had the jump on his Fiat Yamaha teammate Jorge Lorenzo, but Lorenzo dived inside Rossi to takeover 3rd spot as they headed into Turn 3, a move which turned out to be a sign of things to come. 

The four front runners quickly split into two pairs, with Dovizioso chasing Stoner, and Rossi harassing Lorenzo. Dovizioso and Stoner swapped fastest laps for the first half of the race, but the Italian could never get close enough to stage a full-scale attack. Dovi pushed all race long, but as the race approached the three-quarter mark, Dovizioso's resistance was finally broken. Stoner's lead started to expand as the laps ticked away, and the Marlboro Ducati rider went on to claim his second victory in a row, ending the race nearly four seconds ahead of a surprisingly contented Andrea Dovizioso. Dovizioso is still caught up in contract negotiations with HRC, and such a strong result at Honda's home track - and more importantly, taking away valuable points from Jorge Lorenzo - will have improved his chances of Honda putting together a three-bike factory team for 2011, rather than dumping Dovi in the Gresini Honda squad.

If the fight for first was settled relatively quickly and simply, the battle for 3rd was both riveting and bitter in equal measure. Lorenzo's pass on Rossi would turn out to be the first of several, but they would mainly be compressed into the final two laps. The reigning world champion got back past his successor on lap 6, but neither Fiat Yamaha rider could break the other, and the tension began to grow as the race neared its climax. With three laps left to go, Lorenzo made his intention to pass Rossi unmistakably clear, taking a look at Rossi going into Turn 1, and then once again at the end of Motegi's long back straight. Next lap, he pounced, lining Rossi up into Turn 5, but the wily veteran would not surrender so easily. Rossi was straight back past at Turn 6, a trick he learned from Troy Bayliss.

Lorenzo had some tricks of his own, however, and he would not be denied so easily. Lorenzo tried again at the next lap, prepared for Rossi's response, and banging fairings as they went under the bridge, Rossi came out on top, at least temporarily. Lorenzo passed once again going into the S curves, but Rossi was back again a couple of turns later, on the way out of the V curve. Lorenzo tried once again through the S curves on the final lap, but once again Rossi was back into Turn 9, holding Lorenzo off for the rest of the lap.

Rossi could barely conceal his delight at beating his teammate and the man he considers a usurper, but Lorenzo could celebrate too. While Rossi had been racing with pain in his shoulder, he had been using the new, faster engine that Yamaha had brought to the Japanese track. Lorenzo changed his mind at the last minute, electing to use an older, slower engine, and saving his newer, faster engine for later on. If Dani Pedrosa comes back at Sepang, then Lorenzo will have to finish ahead of him to secure the championship, and the fewer races Lorenzo has on the new engine - the last of his six-engine allocation - the better.

Behind the Fiat Yamahas, Colin Edwards brought his Monster Tech 3 Yamaha home in 5th, his best result of the season, finishing ahead of the three strongest rookies: San Carlo Gresini's Marco Simoncelli, Rizla Suzuki's Alvaro Bautista and Edwards' Tech 3 teammate Ben Spies. Spies had run off the track early in the race together with Nicky Hayden, and had to battle his way forward from close to dead last. Finishing 8th is an impressive feat for the Texan.

Dani Pedrosa's absence and Lorenzo's 4th place finish leave the Fiat Yamaha man 69 points ahead of Pedrosa, and needing 6 more points to clinch the title. A 10th place finish at Sepang should be sufficient if Pedrosa does not race, which remains a very strong possibility given that the Repsol Honda man has just had his fractured collarbone plated. If Pedrosa does race, Lorenzo will have to wait until at least Phillip Island to secure the title, or at the latest, Estoril.

Results:

Pos. No. Rider Manufacturer Time Diff
1 27 Casey STONER DUCATI 43'12.266  
2 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO HONDA 43'16.134 3.868
3 46 Valentino ROSSI YAMAHA 43'17.973 5.707
4 99 Jorge LORENZO YAMAHA 43'18.487 6.221
5 5 Colin EDWARDS YAMAHA 43'39.358 27.092
6 58 Marco SIMONCELLI HONDA 43'42.287 30.021
7 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SUZUKI 43'44.092 31.826
8 11 Ben SPIES YAMAHA 43'47.838 35.572
9 14 Randy DE PUNIET HONDA 43'59.830 47.564
10 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA HONDA 44'01.864 49.598
11 33 Marco MELANDRI HONDA 44'02.265 49.999
12 69 Nicky HAYDEN DUCATI 44'02.969 50.703
13 40 Hector BARBERA DUCATI 44'03.688 51.422
14 41 Aleix ESPARGARO DUCATI 44'05.109 52.843
15 36 Mika KALLIO DUCATI 44'26.934 1'14.668
Not Classified
  65 Loris CAPIROSSI SUZUKI 38'16.692 3 laps
Round Number: 
14
2010
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Total votes: 14

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Comments

If that last few laps didn't raise the yamaha media profile nothing will. As Rossi intimated, with Dani out, Jorge needed no help with the title, Jorge put himself into the battle, not Rossi. Wiser people would of took fourth with a wry smile, Jorge rose to the bait, it was his choice to put himself at risk! It was the only highlight of 3 very boring and error strewn races.

Total votes: 58

And besides I think everyone who had any doubts about someone "falling off" are gone... Emotions are running high for me now but I think it's clear to say had Vale never been injured, from shoulder to leg, there would have been no run away championship, it would have been a dog fight.

And now that everyone has their bikes sorted out, I have a hard time believing that Jorge will rule the roost next year. If anything I think he will be on the receiving end of some thrashing from Casey and Dani with Vale nipping at his heels figuring out the Duc... Que sera sera though~

Great ride and race to everyone though! Looking forward to the next.

-Vinny
twitter @deftjester

Total votes: 60

I've simply juxtaposed Rossi's words with Rossi's actions so we can ponder the obvious paradox. The void created by a paradoxical situation is not meant to be filled with a pro-Rossi sermon.

Rossi is a hypocrite at worst. So what? Victimless crime. No need to proselytize.

Total votes: 54

If i remember correctly, Rossi said he would help Lorenzo if Yamaha would ask him. I guess they didn't ask him.

Total votes: 66

-your point, and I agree with you about the hypocrisy. In all fairness though, I don't care because Jorge has his own personality flaws and issues just like everyone else in the paddock.

Today, I saw Rossi show great form and great class when winning, congratulating Jorge for a great battle. It would have been bitter for me if Rossi lost but I still would congratulate Jorge for another fearless ride. Anyways, I am very much looking forward to next year, especially with Spies in the mix on a factory bike :-)

Vinny
twitter @deftjester

Total votes: 64

As Jorge has all but won the championship (297 points with 4 races remaining and injured Pedrosa with 228 the only rider with a mathematical chance to catch and pass Jorge), how can Rossi not be expected to race to win? Face it, all bromides were off once Dani was injured.

Total votes: 62

Question, what did HRC do to Dovi's bike to propel him to the sharp end so convincingly compared to the rest of the season?

Total votes: 58

so true. i could almost see the red mist through jorge's visor after rossi's moves. credit to him tho he didnt lose his head, even when he had to stand it up several times to avoid rossi. good to see rossi back on the podium.well done stoner and dovi

Total votes: 62

It was quite entertaining battle, but I say it was rough movement from Rossi. Rossi toughed Lorenzo several times. It was especially scary when Rossi toughed him under the tunnel. When Lorenzo overtook him and was on his line, he was pushed away to the side and toughed by Rossi a few times. You may call it the racing, and then you cannot call De Angeles dangerous rider anymore.

Total votes: 61

I think the difference is that DeAngelis would end up colliding with other riders when coming fast from behind or braking too late to ever hope to turn. Rossi and Lorrenzo's collisions were after turns and side by side.

When Stoner and Lorenzo have been on the losing end of wanting to be in the same place on the track it's all tears. Maybe Rossi would be the same way but no one has pushed him around so much.

Total votes: 58

Sounds like the guys at Yamaha weren't as impressed as I was with the close racing, personally, I think Lorenzo should have let him go, he had nothing to gain but everything to lose. There's also the small matter that we've had to wait all year for that battle!

Excuse the google translation....

http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/slider/2037-la-yamaha-ha-ammonito-ross...

"I think the behavior in today's race Valentino was not fair to Lorenzo - Lin Jarvis has confirmed the coordinator of the Racing Division Yamaha - but I have to answer for points. First I want to say that third and fourth place is good for the team and good for Lawrence, which is closer to the world. Obviously we would have preferred to win. "

We come to the question dell'ammonizione.

"After the race, Jorge came to us asking our opinion on the behavior of Valentino Rossi in the race. There were four, besides myself, there was also Furusawa and two other people at Yamaha. We, together, we agreed with him that there was no point ul a kind of duel between two teammates, we expect that guide pilots with a greater margin of safety, were too close. Furusawa then spoke with Valentine and told him to behave differently with Yamaha's have made it clear our position, the race was too tense and difficult, not to do it, especially in this time of the World. "

Lorenzo before she was to ask your opinion, how we think?

"I was very taken by the race, I had the adrenaline in the bloodstream, but I still believe that it was too close. We do not like competitions so aggressive when our mission is another. There is no legal implication, vice versa, the Race Direction have taken action. But a pilot poo to be very aggressive, or too aggressive. Valentino has been too aggressive. "

Without a fight like this, there are a bit 'too boring races?

"Sports are more boring and less spectacular. But we do not want drivers who end up in the gravel, it behooves that the drivers meet, to the competition. "

In practice: the best driver is the one that does not fall. What about the wall, next year will keep him inside the box?

"The wall at the end is not entirely negative. We've had over the last three years and things went very well. If there is a wall there will be a "booth", so every rider in the team will focus on his race. "

Total votes: 52

I have also seen the reaction from Lorenzo's side, and i really have to put it to soar losers. I mean it was hard racing but come on... (When Stoner touched Valentino in last turn at Sachsenring no one said anything)
Not For the analisys:
1 In the tunnel - i look a few times at the replay and Valentino gave Jorge a lot of space about 1-1.5 meters.
2 Round the outside - Valentino held the inside line, and while Lorenzo obvioslly saw he was there, still decided to turn in knowing Vale had the inside line. I mean Lorenzos actions don't make any sense if he was so concerned with his life.
He took part in it and he knew it(or maybe was int the heat of the moment and didn't knew it, but he sure knows it now).
And secondly that's why they get paid 8+ mil euro.

LE: Also Jerez, this year. When Lorenzo touched Pedrosa with two laps to go. No one complained about his move then.

I mean I'm not even going to bother anymore. It's clear.

Total votes: 68

So Yamaha management is providing the chorus for Jorge? Too bad boys; 2011 will be here soon enough: Get ready for an entirely new season. Obviously, Yamaha sees Vale as the competition and not a team member. How soon they have forgotten from whence they came. Also, does Yamaha management really believe that 26 year old Ben Spies will be content to ride "shotgun" for Jorge in 2011 and 2012? Yes, that's it, in 2013, when Ben turns 29 (and only if Jorge has left Yamaha) Yamaha will finally permit Ben to race and win. Got that, Ben?

Total votes: 78

I'm not surprised that the manufacturers are the last people in the paddock who actually want to see racing. The same phenomenon exists in Formula 1 as well.

There seems to be a very strong correlation between the cost of the machines (total team budget to a lesser extent) and a manufacturers tolerance for close racing. The more expensive the vehicles and the higher the team budget, the less the manufacturers want to leave the competition in the hands of the rider.

Total votes: 68

The way I saw it, on both occasions where they had a coming together, it was when Lorenzo was trying to overtake Rossi, not Rossi trying to overtake Lorenzo. In that situation I think it is the person doing the overtaking who is at fault, no matter what Lorenzo says.

Total votes: 71

I don't think JL can complain. In terms of the race and his championship, things were settled. He didn't need a podium. He didn't need to run risks to try to get one. There was absolutely no need for him to risk anything.

He made the decision to have a battle with VR in the dying few laps. What did he expect? That VR would meekly let him past and give up his podium? He knew, from previous personal experience, and from VR's past history, what to expect. In short, it was he who picked a fight when he didn't need to, he got a bloody nose, and now he's complaining about it.

.

Total votes: 56

...couldn't agree more.

I absolutely canNOT beLIEVE that Yamaha are moaning.

Looks like their golden boy just got duffed up by the "has been"... :)

(I hope that they don't throw a tantrum and renege on their deal with VR. That would come back to haunt them. BIG TIME. Oh, and by the way, Casey is gonna lay some serious HURT on the field next year, as well as Ben...)

Total votes: 59

You took the words out my mouth - it takes 2 to tango...

Jorge could of opted out of that battle - He took it too rossi not vice versa...

Total votes: 63

Just wondering how wide a MOTOGP bike is supposed to be? Looked at the race again tonight, and can Rossi's leg antics be defined as blocking?

Not a Rossi fan at all, and wondered why Lozenzo didnt take Rossi's leg out . Rossi has gotten away with far too much over the years, with his dirty tricks and politics.

I think the next couple of races will be interesting.

Somehow, I think that YAMAHA will hold Rossi to the letter of his contract..December 31st, 2010. 23:59:59.:-)

Total votes: 47

I'm confused at the 'B****ING' at Rossi! Rossi was racing, as was Jorge, but come on guys . . . . Jorge should have let his 'EGO' go, as he had NOTHING TO GAIN and EVERYTHING TO LOSE . . . other then his EGO and beating Rossi!!! The SMART thing for Jorge to do was cruise around in 4th, but his EGO WOULD NOT LET HIM! Jorge lost sight of the REAL GOAL---WC! I guess he just wanted Rossi to move over and give him 3rd! Were there team orders? I think not!

Total votes: 56

The same things can be said for Rossi. He has nothing to lose by settling at 4th. He was contemplating about skipping two races at the end and having the surgery. He even said he would test his shoulder in three races from Motegi after Aragon. He did not look like having the shoulder problem… Anyway, both did not want to give up third spot, and Rossi got bit too aggressive. You may call it pure racing, but to me, it is not right to touch the rider especially under the tunnel. Jorge had no place to go but hit the wall if he had crashed.

Total votes: 71

If you watched the racing with some objectivity you would see that Rossi was the one who was super aggressive with his overtaking and general racing lines. He caused the touching!

Was the racing unsafe or unfair? Maybe. Was it entertaining? Yes.
Should Jorge complain? No - where will it get him? (see Stoner 08)

Total votes: 63

If Jorge thinks Rossi is "too aggressive" I'd hate to see what he would say if forced to race in AMA DSB against Eslick. I think we finally saw some real racing today and Jorge needs to wash the sand out of his mangina. Seriously, Motogp is too sterile. These guys cry like little girls anytime someone gets too close to them, what do they expect, it's called "fighting for position" for a reason.

Total votes: 52

Finally, a break from the processional "racing", and somebody in the sandbox has to WHINE.

Total votes: 61

The leg dance before each corner seems to be an aerodynamic drag strategy on entering corners. I'm sure someone in a wind tunnel has concluded that it rubs a small bit of speed off at the end of the straights so that deceleration doesn't just come from the brakes. It has nothing to do with blocking because they do it when qualifying.
Recently the legs have been coming out a long way in Motogp's and WSBK. Could be dangerous but what isn't in bike racing.
I would like to know the regulations on the material and size of leathers on the leg. Could a rider put extra fins on the legs to create even more drag? You know they will look at every possible angle.

Total votes: 60

...article on the "Leg Dance".

It decisively concludes that it's something done for NO other reason than that Rossi wants to. It makes absolutely NO difference to weight distribution or any other quantifiable measure.

Total votes: 60

I remember reading that article as well.

I also remember reading another article about how all these people try to copy Rossi and emulate him and so it was just another way of him trying to see how far he could push the envelope. see how much people would try to copy him, and by the looks of it in both MotoGP and WSBK, quite a few have started to do the leg dangle. obviously we dont know how true this is, but it was an interesting theory to say the least

Total votes: 66

You can find the leg wave article here. And you're right, the data shows no difference, it's more of a lucky t-shirt thing.

Total votes: 83

Your link came up while I was writing this...

Can you just delete this, please?

Total votes: 65

Does anyone know if some riders are still using thumb operated rear brakes these days ?

Total votes: 62

I watch MotoGP to see a race, and I won't watch MotoGP to see a parade. If Jorge wants to enter a parade 18 times each season, that's fine; however, I'll wager that under those circumstances the vast majority of fans will tune out MotoGP permanently. I know that I will. Jorge, become a true racer or concede future championships to your rivals as I guarantee you that you will not be gifted another championship ever again. Your choice Jorge: stallion or gelding - champion or also ran.

Total votes: 60

Rossi rode aggressive, but I agree Lorenzo picked the fight and knew what to expect.
It was interesting to see Guintoli's reaction after a similar hard fought battle over the last WSBK podium place with Fabrizio. Sure, different things at stake, but he got bumped off the podium in similar fashion in front of his home crowd. He said:
"Right after the race I was really angry with him (Fabrizio) but that's racing!" Then he started to laugh.
What a great way to be honest while saving face.

Total votes: 55

I thought that was amazing. A little crazy considering Lorenzo has a lot to lose if he got injured. Everyone will freak out but it's happened before and no one got injured. Team managers don't like to see million E bikes getting smashed up I guess.

Lorenzo almost put Rossi out but he didn't do what Hayden did to him the race before so Rossi could come back. Hayden rode him to the edge of the track whereas Lorenzo let Rossi stay on. That was his only weak point. He had to put Rossi in the gravel to beat him and he didn't. Next time...

Total votes: 56

The difference between 3rd and 4th is 3 pts and for JL to be risking the WC for that is STUPID! THe GOAL is the WC!!! but his ego wouldn't allow him to let Rossi go and settle for 4th! The BIG PICTURE is the WC . . . He was seeing 'red mist' and kind'a lost sight of that!

Total votes: 60

i was expecting the usual snore-fest parade to help me get to bed last night. cudos to the Fiat boys, what i saw was fantastic racing and compelling human drama! with nothing flagrantly 'unsafe' the last thing race direction should do is disincentivise hard nose racing.

Total votes: 66

Rossi's riding wasn't clean today but it rarely is when Vale has to fight hard. He somehow switch into a de Angelis mode and everything is ok in his book.

But the real 'dindon de la farce' is Jorge who's "newly acquired wiseness" couldn't face his own demented Ego. What the hell was he thinking (not at his WC obviously) coming back at Rossi after it was clear the Doctor was ready to go down to stop him being 3rd ?

I know that's a lot of "if", but hadn't Stoner tumbled on his Ohlins forks and Rossi on his MX bike, Jorge wouldn't have liked one bit fighting hard at every race in the 2010 championship.

Total votes: 53

I'm sure he likes it like that. Watch out because if he clicks with the HRC... game over.

Total votes: 58

QUOTE:"The leg dance before each corner seems to be an aerodynamic drag strategy on entering corners."

Glad someone else noticed. The top 3 riders ALL of them were doing it and getting the same result:get the bike pointing to the corner, the leg acts as a flap on a plane's wing, like an "air brake" plus it gets the weight further away from the C.O.M. of the bike, putting more leverage, pretty much like the way the tractors turn by slowing down the belt from one side...I was able to watch Rossi doing it bigger than ever, more than ever and it showed how Rossi was able to go deeper into corners than Lorenzo.

I think my theory of "The Sticking Leg" comes down to the modern riders doing absolutely everything to manhandle the bikes.

Total votes: 71

These bikes can throw the rider over the handlebars so improved braking can be achieved by the rider forcing himself backwards in the seat (assuming the bike is still stable).

If anything, putting a bent knee out into the wind will disrupt air flow more than dangling a straight leg. A bent knee might even have a bigger impact on the COG b/c it's farther away from the COG than a dangled leg. Also, if the riders wanted more drag, they would sit up straighter, and the leathers would look like wingsuits.

Like everything else in motorcycling the leg dangle is almost certainly about feel. Maybe hanging his leg down feels safe and it allows him to push harder. Maybe he likes the feeling of the wind pushing him back in his seat. Maybe it's like surfing when people drag their hand in the water as a natural response to riding a wave.

Maybe Rossi simply has a really bad habit of overweighting the inside peg so he dangles his inside leg to force himself to use his outside foot. Or maybe he weights the outside peg so much that there isn't enough friction to keep his inside foot on the peg.

Riding a motorcycle is like swinging a golf club. There is a list of things you must do correctly in order to make it work, but the process of doing the correct things is highly individualistic. Rossi didn't look at his riding data and then conclude that the leg dangle would work. He just started doing it b/c he liked it or b/c it is a consequence of something else he is doing.

Total votes: 54

on the "leg dance", and it's a rather convincing and nearly airtight explanation.

The onboard telemetry has shown conclusively that the "leg dance" makes exactly ZERO difference in physical terms. David more than adequately argued that Rossi does it simply because he wants to. No more, no less.

In any case, it seems to work. :)

http://motomatters.com/opinion/2009/07/22/the_truth_behind_the_rossi_leg...

Total votes: 57

..it may have been, but I take my hat off to Jorge..
It's what he's got to do, along with Casey and the likes...take it away from Rossi!

all the heyenas have been out lately..he's finished, Jorge is faster, the new order is in place?

well think again suckers..

Total votes: 62

I don't understand all the talk about Dani still being in the hunt. It is over for him this year, regardless of the math. If he comes back at all, he will not win. He will still be healing and that alone will take tenths off his lap times. You cannot give an alien an edge. Casey is focused now, Jorge is healthy, and Vale is getting stronger. It's over for Dani this year. I hate to see it end this way but that's racing. As far as the touching goes between Vale and Jorge goes, Vale has always played rough. Ask Max or Sete. It was dumb on both their parts. Another fall could really have screwed things up for Vale. He recently stated that "Casey and Jorge hate me". Actually I think it's more the opposite. It was an in your face move by Vale to take it to him like that. Same for Jorge. He should have let him go. Kenny Roberts always said, " second place is the first loser", but late in a championship year, if he already had the title sown up, he was smart enough not to take himself out of a race by letting his ego get the best of him. Jorge should not subject himself to possible injury by engaging in risky passes the remainder of this year. Save yourself for next year Jorge because it will not be the cake walk this year was. Casey on a Honda could be a nightmare and Dani will not be any slower. Vale is Vale, and if he gets the Duck set up to his liking, he will be coming after you especially hard.

Total votes: 60

Lorenzo doesnt need to take it easy now that Dani is out. So what matters? The 3 points? No. The podium? No. Beating the crap out of Rossi? Yes.

Now that Rossis season is done, what matters to Rossi? The podium? No. Three points? No. Beating the crap out of Jorge? Yes.

I predicted it and I loved it. I predict more as well. :-)

They BOTH chose to engage.

Let the boys race and enjoy it.

Total votes: 69

I don't see what the big deal about what happened. It was racing. Sure personally I think Rossi shouldn't have jeopardized his teammates chance at the title but then again Rossi has always seemed a bit selfish when not winning so it doesn't come as a surprise that he'd race fairing to fairing. I'm sure Lorenzo wanted to put a few more points between himself and Dani and get himself onto the podium and maybe just maybe to send a bit of a message to Rossi. It's unreasonable to think he'd just sit back and take 4th with a smile. Like everyone said when the issue of Rossi's surgery came up, "Racers just want to race". Well these guys were on the track and they raced. I think credit has to be given to Stoner who seems to have turned around his season and Dovi. Also I thought there was no way Spies would be able to work his way back up through the field. Too bad he had the off the track incident.

Total votes: 52

Great to see Casey back to his happy self, after last weeks win you could see the relief in his face, but with the Japan win I think he looked much more comfortable in the top position.

And i think his post race description of getting the bike set up for the race was a great insight into just how hard he is working to eek out every last fraction of a second from that Ducati - this is the kind of dedication that Honda are going to do well with next year.... as far as I'm concerned there are only two true development riders in the field - Casey and Valentino, these are guys that can really work with a sub-standard package and turn it into something beautiful.

Total votes: 64

...those two will methinks be at the business end of the grid going hammer and tongs at each other. Of the four aliens, those two are a cut above as total riders - able to ride around problems as well as develop the bike. Very intelligently too.

I think Rossi will again dismiss JLo at the start of the season. He (VR) has been the magic ingredient for Yamaha and that has gone to Ducati. He will sort out his injury problems and having given up the title will be back to his bloodthirsty best.

Casey - has a point to prove as well. If he can get that Honda to his rhythm, he will smoke 'em off.

Total votes: 70

It just goes to show that a bit of good old fashioned red mist CAN overcome the scalextric 800's.

Paraphrased a bit but... 'It's motorcycle racing not ballet dancing' Massimiliano Biaggi.

Total votes: 62

After having finally been able to see the WSBK races from this morning I have to wonder if the same people who are complaining about the Rossi/Lorenzo battle complain about all of the fairing bashing that goes on in WSBK? The Rossi vs Lorenzo battle only seemed significant due to the lack of actual tight racing in MotoGp. Compare those few laps to a full WSBK race and it would still seem relatively insignificant. I still think Lorenzo just needs to man up, shut up and get on with it. What's sad is that Rossi is the only rider willing to put up a fight like that. Well at least there's always Randy Depuniet.

Total votes: 58

Exactly right! I also finally watched both races today and I still can't figure out why people are complaining about a little fairing bashing when we saw Haslam knock Biaggi off the podium in race one and Mr. Fabulous knock Guintoli off in race two. That's racing, even
if your bud loses out, and thank goodness we got some decent
racing up front in MotoGP for a change!!

Total votes: 58

>>>> Lorenzo decides to go against Rossi for the first time this season, get's a little banged up (when he was banging into Rossi), and is now crying? Ok, him I can understand, but to consider there are people here crying fowl?? I'm sorry, did anyone here actually not find that exciting? Finally some real racing and some call it "too aggresive?" All I know, JL better get use to it. Not only from Rossi next year, but from his teammate. And to anyone that said Rossi's competitive days are over .... what??? I can't hear you??? ;)

Cheers!
Eddie

Total votes: 60

It is amazing...Only one person out of all the posts on here has congratulated Stoner on his win...If Rossi had won it would have been Rossi the genius, Rossi the legend, Rossi the greatest...In case you weren't watching STONER actually won the race...Secondly i can't believe people are whinging that Rossi was playing too rough..That was one of the most entertaining battles i have seen for a long time..That was vintage Rossi..If Lorenzo was so concerned about it being dangerous why didn't he back off ? He never let the throttle off once..I am stoked to see Vale back doing what he does best..Harrassing riders with crazy moves...All the people on here saying Rossi is finished think again..Dovi rode a fantastic race..Probably the best race i have seen him ride..Pushed the whole way...Got beaten but never gave up...To all the Stoner knockers out there..Watch out if he gets a handle on that Honda..Lorenzo and co will not get it as easy next year especially if Vale gets a handle on the Ducati as well..CASEY is back and it is going to make next year a cracker..

Total votes: 58

Is someone actually keeping track of that? Stoner is a big boy, I'm sure he will be fine that no one here congratulated him. And if there is a "expected formal recognition reply" that we are suppose to follow, can someone please post it?

Eddie

Total votes: 55

Expected formal recognition reply would go something like this:

1) Insert congratulation to race winner, even if not relevant to topic of discussion, so as not to hurt any feelings.

2)Some usage of punctuation... other than...

Total votes: 67

Jorge expected Rossi to race a little cleaner than he did. And we all know that Rossi can race clean, he fell below his own standards yesterday.

Total votes: 70

Mark: There are no Stoner knockers on here, as this is not the forum for that kind of debate. You don't need to keep jumping to his defense before anyone has even made a comment about him. That would save me time, as it means I don't have to keep deleting posts which contribute nothing to the discussion (which fortunately is very rarely, as MotoMatters.com readers are a remarkably intelligent and thoughtful bunch, I'm proud to say). Nobody here doubts Stoner's talent, and Casey himself doesn't need you to defend him. The last two races have defended Stoner far more eloquently than you have, and now they've fixed Stoner's position on the bike, there's probably more to come.

Total votes: 59

and he destroyed everyone this year. He earned the championship fair and square. He won with more wins and podiums than the vast percentage of riders ever get in their MotoGP career. He is excellent to his fellow racers and will be a great title holder.

What's it to him if his competitor destroys his body so he can't compete, can't come to grip with setup, or can't keep up for whatever reason?

The championship is in his pocket along with a freshly signed contract, ink hardly dry, and still 4 races left. So what if he has to take a few block bumps from sour guy that can hardly reach the podium. If I was him I could hardly stop laughing about it.

Total votes: 50

It is disappointing to me to hear Lorenzo whining about the challenge he received from Rossi. It makes him appear to be a prima donna. I'm sure Jorge is smart enough to back-off he he felt it was ever unsafe at any time. Think about this; do you believe he would be complaining about Rossi if he had beat him? Probably not. I'm also surprised that Lin Jarvis would respond negatively about Rossi's riding style. That style has benefited Yamaha royally for many years. Lorenzo has the title sewn up (partly due to other riders injuries) so why should Rossi acquiesce to him? Jorge was trying to prove to Rossi that he is faster (as he should) and when he got beat he complains. What a diva. I understand team protocol about helping another teammate win the championship but it's obvious that Rossi and Lorenzo are teammates only by default. For me, without that battle for the podium, this race wouldn't have been nearly as exciting. I like to see the riders mixing it up a little. It reminded me of the old Roberts/Spencer battles and not the parades some of these GP races have become lately. Keep the race in racing.

Total votes: 60

Great race for a change and being an Aussie am loving the next couple of weeks having races in our time zone. Not having to stay up past midnight with work on a Monday can only be a good thing.
Anyhow how long has it been since one country has so dominated the paddock, not only will a Spaniard win MOto Gp but one will also win Moto 2 and I don't yet know which one but another Spaniard will also win 125 CC . Has this happened before?

Total votes: 66

Criville was the first Spanish premier class winner in 1999 and Rossi spoiled that trifecta by winning the 250 crown with Alzamora winning in 125s.

The surprising part is that if you'd have asked anyone in 2008 who would have been MotoGP champ first between Pedrosa and Lorenzo it would have been long odds on Jorge.

Total votes: 63

"If anything, putting a bent knee out into the wind will disrupt air flow more than dangling a straight leg".
Do you work in a wind tunnel?
To say the leg dance is "because Rossi wants to" is just garbage. Do you think team managers and manufacturers would let their riders do something that has no impact?
Furthermore riders have been using their bodies as windbreaks for years (moving upright at the end of straights etc...).
With all due respect to David Emmett, teams are not going to show him any of their secrets or real data.
And finally, Stoner et al would rather cut their leg off than mindlessly follow Rossi. It has to have some benefit.

Total votes: 60

As far as I've read/heard it doesn't get much further than the word 'feeling'. Now ofcourse this is a highly subjective term, but a proven physical benefit, no.
Why would a team forbid a rider to do this if it feels right? Should they forbid Elias to hang off as far as he does? Forbid Spies to stick out his elbows, Haslam to flap his knees under breaking?

Total votes: 62

I believe that the honorable Mr. Emmett is more of an insider than most of us combined, and I tend to take his insider info with just about NO grains of salt. Combine that with what superstitious creatures riders are, and you end up with a sound theory that holds more water than anything I've yet heard. After all, if the guy who's winning most everything seems to have an advantage, it behooves the other riders to try it.

If any of us here believes that any of the riders put their pride before their desire to win...well, that doesn't hold much water with me. After all, riders did NOT always slide their knees on the tarmac. Someone did it first, then others saw that it seemed to offer a competitive advantage, so they tried it, too.

Pride to the wind. Racers want to WIN.

Here's the link. Judge for thyself.

http://motomatters.com/opinion/2009/07/22/the_truth_behind_the_rossi_leg...

Total votes: 59

I admit my understanding of aerodynamics is fairly limited, but the concept of increased drag as air tries to move between two objects (hamstring and calf), is relatively straight forward. Doesn't mean it's absolutely right, but it's not a foreign idea.

And another thing, the debate was never about whether the riders use their bodies as air brakes b/c we know they do. The debate was whether they want substantially more air brake which I don't really believe b/c many of the riders have techniques for "tuning" the amount of drag they generate by shrugging shoulders or keeping their torso at an angle so they don't get blown off at high speed. Riders also do not put both knees out when braking which would be a better air braking technique.

The leg dangle is just a thing. I think it is actually a consequence of weighting the outside peg. If 9/10ths of the force is on the outside peg, the inside foot is naturally going to come off of the peg under heavy breaking. Rossi is very comfortable with this phenomenon (particularly with his right leg (weak side)) so he has just added a little personal flair by taking it off intentionally. Stoner has done the same with his weak leg (left) although we know that Stoner also like to use the rear brake so this may explain why he doesn't dangle his right leg.

Total votes: 55

Nobody would have disputed Lorenzo's if he had cruised to 4th.
3 points didn't justify the trouble he went through to fight over the podium position with Rossi.

Call it ego or whatever, but we have to be thankful of those two for wanting to race it down to the line. Lorenzo knows that beating Rossi hand to hand actually goes down on your CV and is probably better that one or even a number of race wins. Plus, Aragón finished an impecable run of season poduim finishes and Motegi , an impeccable run of front-line starts. I guess you cant blame the guy for wanting the podium again.

Its just a pity that he is complaining about Rossi being tough. Lets face it, had he been the one to win the race he would not have complained. All the fairing bashing would have made it a more epic victory for him over Rossi.

Total votes: 57

Tonyfumi:
I certainly don't work in a wind tunnel, but I do have experience on a racetrack and I can assure you the leg dangle is purely psychological. The rare times when I have done it have always been by accident when heading into a tight corner at the end of a straight faster than normal. It is more my body reverting to dirt riding instinct than anything else. Also, a bent knee into the wind does offer more wind resistance, but requires that your body be in a different position.

Total votes: 67

Stoner was simply awesome. I, for one, could not possibly be MORE thrilled that he's spicing things up, and I'm similarly thrilled to see the Ducati back up to speed. That makes Craig (me) a happy boy.

Total votes: 74

Politically the last laps tango was gold dust for Rossi. Lorenzo choosing to engage could only have 1 winner.

If Lorenzo got by with ease - Rossi is heralded as a gracious team player.

Go back to what actually happened and you have to concede that in the 2011 mind games Rossi has it sussed. Lorenzo is just another rider he is breaking, "come and have a go if you think your hard enough" springs to mind.

So Lorenzo bleats that Rossi is too hard, Yamaha have to back up their chosen team leader and try and spank VR's bottom for racing to hard...... you can see the reply coming a mile off.

You want me to play nice? Release me to test after the last race

Cant beat a wise old head!

With respect to 2011, what remains to be seen is the true financial situation; I don't believe Yamaha can win the 2011 Championship. Both Honda and Ducati are investing heavily in riders and hardware for next year. Looking at bike sales I still don't believe Yamaha can afford to keep up the pace of development with the other two factories.

As good a rider as Lorenzo is, I cant see past Stoner, Pedrosa or VR in 2011, and thats way to close to call.

For once, we might have a proper Championship fight from start to finish to watch - roll on 2011 :)

Total votes: 50

These are some of the crazy notions people have said about the "Leg dance":

"The leg dangle is just a thing" - insightful
"riders did NOT always slide their knees on the tarmac"- good comparison - they do that because IT WORKS !
"It is more my body reverting to dirt riding instinct than anything else" - Casey has dirt in his blood - he never did the dangle until recently
"Riders also do not put both knees out when braking which would be a better air braking technique" - but this would cause other problems with weight distribution.

Racers want to go fast (or slower in this case) and will do anything to achieve it. If they thought it had no benefit they would move on and try something else.

Total votes: 59

A shame that a few tight passes are considered an 'epic battle'(as was Aragon), we need much more of this frenetic riding(maybe they could have a monetary bonus for most passes like the AMA MX 'hard charger' award ).
Lorenzo's hypocritical comments? Disgraceful, makes him sound like a spoiled little girl.
Lastly, to the poster who put Stoner on the same level as Rossi as far as bike development? LOL. He received a title winning rocketship in '07 (which he had no part in developing) and where has he been for the past 3years( In which he had full reign over bike development)?! Not knocking him as a rider, his past two races have been flawless, but it is ridiculous to call him a great development rider on par with Rossi. Can anyone dispute that?

Total votes: 63

So I guess a rider would get a million dollar bonus for punting their rivals off the track? Sorry but that takes away the skill from a rider who can actually ride fairly and not cheat his way to success.

Point is that Stoner is making the bike work while others haven't. We know the Ducati doesn't have the rideability of the Yamaha but that didn't stop it from being a fast package which Stoner has maximised to more 800cc victories than anyone else.

Total votes: 54

I never call for a bonus for knocking off your rival off track, I just want to see much more tight passing.

Agreed Stoner has ridden the Ducati that he developed more successfully than anyone else but that is my exact point, if only he can ride it, that does not make him much of a development rider. Did you read singlemalt's post Sreamer? Rossi has developed the M1 so that well, you know, it's the best bike (even grandpa Edwards occasionally finishes at the sharp end on one).

Total votes: 61