CAS Rejects Request By Lorenzo To Be A Party To Rossi's Appeal Case

One decision has come early in the hearing before Court of Arbitration for Sport on Valentino Rossi's appeal against his penalty at Sepang. Today, the CAS announced that it had rejected a request for intervention by lawyers representing Jorge Lorenzo. With that request rejected, the case will now be solely between Valentino Rossi and the FIM. The outcome of the preliminary hearing to suspend the penalty issued against Rossi will be made public by Friday, 6th November at the latest.

Lorenzo made a request to intervene in the proceedings under rule R41.3 of the CAS procedural rules. Lorenzo did so as a third party having a material interest in the outcome of Rossi's appeal, and more especially, his request for a stay of the penalty he had been given. Rossi appealed to the CAS in the hope of getting the three-point penalty imposed on him at Sepang suspended, so that he will not be forced to start from the back of the grid, and give him a better chance of defending his championshp lead. Lorenzo requested to intervene in that appeal as he has an interest in Rossi starting from the back of the grid, to give him the best chance of winning the championship at Valencia. The fierce battle the two men have fought out on track during the year has been extended into the courts.

The CAS' decision to reject the request for intervention may be good news for Rossi in the short term, but it does give a clearer indication of how the CAS intends to view the case. One possible reason for the CAS deciding to reject Lorenzo's request for intervention is that the CAS is viewing the penalty completely in isolation, and therefore free of the consequences it may have on the championship. It means they will view Rossi's case on the basis of how and whether Race Direction followed the correct procedure in assessing the penalty, and issued a penalty in line with earlier decisions. Whether this makes it more or less likely to take into account Rossi's interests at Valencia when considering his request to suspend the penalty at Valencia is up for question.

Though Lorenzo's involvement in Rossi's case was to be expected, it does not make the job of Yamaha management any easier. Tensions in the garage have already reached boiling point, and this is only going to make things worse. How both riders respond when the CAS issues judgment on Rossi's request for a stay will be very telling for their future together in the team.

Below is the press release issued by the CAS:


MEDIA RELEASE

FIM MOTOGP CHAMPIONSHIP 2015

VALENTINO ROSSI APPEAL UPDATE

REQUEST FOR INTERVENTION BY JORGE LORENZO IS REJECTED

Lausanne, 3 November 2015 – Earlier today, the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) rejected a Request for Intervention filed by the Spanish MotoGP rider, Jorge Lorenzo.

On 2 November 2015, lawyers acting for Jorge Lorenzo filed a Request for Intervention in order to be able to participate on his behalf in the CAS arbitration between Valentino Rossi and the FIM. This afternoon, the CAS informed the parties that Mr Lorenzo’s request was denied. Accordingly, the CAS arbitration will continue between Valentino Rossi and the FIM only.

The decision on Mr Rossi’s request to stay the execution of the FIM Steward’s decision is still expected to be issued no later than 6 November 2015.

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Comments

Probably the most appropriate comment of all, this has indeed become so bad that you can only laugh. Ridiculous.

Total votes: 112

I agree with some of the tweets I've seen. If they rule Lorenzo isn't a factor, then they are probably not going to consider effect on the championship, but rather the correctness of RD penalty. If that is the case, VR on the back row.

Total votes: 135

Shame on JL.

I realise that a WC is big thing and a man's gotta do whatever he can....

But IMHO he's really missed an opportunity here to take the higher ground, to appear the bigger man.

JL has always seemed to have a gift to polarise opinions amongst MotoGP fans, and this won't do his image a whole lotta good!!

JL has been the fastest rider all year... just not the most consistent... If it wasn't for Misano....

He's only once given points away to VR since RSM

He can do this purely on track... he knows he can do this purely on track, so it's a shame he feels the need to try a plan B...

...even though I guess anyone in his position would try a plan B....

(Full disclosure, I'd personally prefer VR to win)

FWIW, I also think if VR does win the WC, it'll be less tainted in many eyes than if JL does... because VR would have won avoiding the adversity of a penalty (or over coming it if it stands) rather than seeking to enforce a penalty on his rival as JL appears to have attempted.

My GUT feeing (whatever the hell that's worth) is that VR will line up for Valencia where he qualifies... His basis for appeal with the CAS seems to centre around his reputation and standing as a sportsman.... While HRC/Repsol/Yamaha are arguing about him via their press releases, IMO it plays into his hands and PERHAPS the CAS will decide that a WC fought fairly between 2 contestants, outweighs when a standalone penalty should be implemented (if at all...)

VR took no real WC profit from MM failing... You could argue that MM might of had him for 3rd, but equally perhaps not... (it's 3 WC points either way)

As ever, YMMV...

Total votes: 178

Perhaps it reveals Lorenzo's concern over his ability to win the championship if Rossi starts from his qualifying spot v. the back of the grid?

Total votes: 132

In the same way that after Phillip Island, Rossi was not confident of being able to finish runner up to Lorenzo in the last two races and hence had to manufacture this palaver of obfuscation prior to Sepang. The sad part is the protagonists took the bait hook, line and sinker.

Total votes: 153

Lorenzo's concern would be well founded because as the table posted in the other thread showed even if he wins the race, Rossi still gets the championship if he comes second. If Lorenzo comes second and Rossi third, again it's Rossi who gets the championship. So in a way the outcome is out of Lorenzo's control - even if he does his absolute best it might still not be enough.
No wonder then he's trying to influence Rossi's starting position, though as he was not at all involved in the whole incident I agree this is not great sportsmanship or smart PR move on his part.

Total votes: 119

please no more, jorge needs to stop and focus on winning the race now rather than all this. He has the advantage now and he should not bother what rossi is doing. Already it has become very complicated and now he should talk with performance and not by politics. Its too late now ...

Total votes: 132

This is getting ridiculous. It's one thing for Rossi to work the system to mitigate HIS penalty for HIS prospects in the race. It's another for Lorenzo not even involved in the incident to get involved to as he says "take profit" off of Rossi's penalty. Just ride your bike Jorge.

Total votes: 184

Remember, Rossi claims his championship is being affected by this, a championship in which Lorenzo is involved. So of course it makes sense. If Rossi's penalty would not have been upheld Lorenzo had a good case for his championship being affected. The fact of his request being denied makes for good hope that the penalty is upheld like it should be.

Total votes: 154

Like David said in a tweet, it's exactly the same thing. VR46 is pursuing a legal solution to his problem, what's the difference if JL99 does the same?

Total votes: 187

JL was left no choice but protect his interests

Total votes: 190

Not sure I entirely agree, but that certainly IS a valid P.O.V. Given VR's oft demonstrated influence, JL might well feel the need to be there to personally protect his interests.

Total votes: 121

Jorge clearly thinks Rossi caused Marquez to crash out of the last race, whether intentionally or not. Had Marquez not crashed out it's entirely possible that he would have finished the race behind Lorenzo but in front of Rossi, thus taking more championship points from Rossi.

If Jorge thinks this then he would want to do whatever he could within the rules to make sure that at the very least Rossi's penalty, which would result in a start from the back of the grid, is not suspended. Even if not suspended that penalty may not cost Rossi as much as Marquez could have cost him if Marquez finished in between the two riders at the last race.

Jorge is clearly not winning the PR war by being vocal about how he thinks Rossi's punishment should be more severe, and no doubt trying to be heard in the CAS case won't help in that regard either. I think it's a dumb PR move on his part but I don't fault him for it beyond that.

If Marquez really was toying with Rossi in either of the last two races I'm disappointed in him. I'm certainly disapointed in Rossi for reacting poorly to the perceived or real toying. Jorge hasn't done anything wrong on the track and feels his position in the championship is being compromised by others' actions on, and now off the track and is trying to defend himself and his position.

This goes a little beyond what I think you were saying grahluk so I'm not saying this bit in direct rubuttle to you, but I just don't see Jorge's transgressions, possibly being disrespectful at the last awards presentation (though I believe that's open to interpretation) and calling out Rossi and insisting his penaty should be greater (again, dumb PR move and not helpful to cooling down the situation) as nearly as egregious as the on-track antics either Marquz or Rossi are accused of (accurately or not). Compaired to the main two protagonists in this story I guess I'm much more willing to give Jorge a pass on this one then some are.

Total votes: 193

How do you know "Jorge clearly thinks Rossi caused Marquez to crash"? His motivation is to win the title using all means (fair or foul) at his disposal, not to see justice done.

Likewise regarding your statement: "Jorge hasn't done anything wrong on the track and feels his position in the championship is being compromised by others' actions on, and now off the track and is trying to defend himself and his position."

Where do you draw these inferences from? How do you know these feelings? The bottom line is Jorge HAS done things wrong on the track, that's why he is not leading the Championship. His position in the Championship is a direct result of his own actions/mistakes, no-one else's.

But basically, I don't believe you should lift yourself up by dragging others down, and that is what Lorenzo was attempting to do by injecting himself into the legal battle. He needs to beat Rossi on the track, not in the court room, because if it's not settled on track it simply won't be settled, no matter the legal outcome.

Total votes: 117

That looks really bad from JLo.
Gives the impression that he's not confident that he can win the title by riding faster than his opponent.

Total votes: 169

I am beside myself, can't sleep at night and don't know what to say to my loving wife. You see, she insists on wearing her JL 99 hoodie at Valencia because, she says, he's cute and he has a nicer arse than, well, me...
Trouble is Davina, we've the Marquez fan club on one side and a bit further down the Rossi one. I want to try to hide this hoody Davina but she says if I do she'll go downtown Valencia on Sunday night with Brazilian mechanics, or mechanics with Brazilians, she didn't make that bit clear...
So what can I do Davina, see I'm a really small guy and seem to always attract the wrong sort, this Lorenzo chap seems to have one of those reverse PR companies that engineer unpopularity campaigns, something they seem to be really good at. So my wife (I'll call her Danielle, though that's not her name) says if I don't let her have her way I've got to wear that old Mike Duff t-shirt I've got in my dresser.

Please help
(Come on you lot, we might as well have a laugh....

Total votes: 122

I do fear there will be some confrontations among the fans, physically, after two weeks of sparing online, virtually. Dorna should have a public press conference to let all three speak and remind everyone this is just sport and it's not the end of the world if your guy doesn't win. However, personally I think only if comes out of the mouth of a sincere Valentino will it make a difference.

Total votes: 121

Your point about the fans is a good one. I sure hope Valencia isn't spoiled even further by unfortunate incidents from the more passionate ratbags - urr, I mean fans.

Total votes: 108

Race direction opened the Pandora box by letting the crazies run the asylum... There's no bigger losers than motogp itself. You had it coming.

Total votes: 155

Not surprised at all that Lorenzo is doing everything he can to give himself the best chance to win the title. No matter what he does, he is going to be hated forever more by Rossi fans, so challenging the court case is unlikely to make any difference, he may as well go for it. I don't think he's ever been that bothered about his popularity (or lack of it).

The downside will be the atmosphere within the Yamaha garage is going to be very, very nasty. I have a funny feeling that whatever happens with the championship, there are going to be further developments after the race.

Could Rossi announce his retirement at the end of the season? (despite the move to new tyres) Could one member of the team leave? One thing is for sure, the next time the two cross paths on the track, expect the latin temperament to go off the scale and something approaching a re-run of Sepang and more. Throw Marquez into the mix and you better hope they laminate the paint on the fairings in 2016

Total votes: 124

Disliking Jorge intensely before he was a gold helmeted lolipop sucking weenie in 250s.

Some people are just plain good at perpetually placing their worst foot forward.

Total votes: 133

I've actually come to like him more since he stopped showboating so much - it always seemed forced. He has a bit of a sarcastic wit sometimes.

Total votes: 101

Given JL's recently found maturity and given the fact that all things being equal, he has a good chance of winning regardless of where Rossi starts, I'd really prefer he stay out of it, race his race and if he wins, it's a good win and if not ... so be it.

Maybe he should take a look at Danni Pedrosa and how he's behaved during this drama - He's been minding his own business and running his race very successfully - maybe he shouldn't walk off the podium like a big baby as well when the whole incident has nothing to do with him directly.

Total votes: 114

To be fair, DP doesn't have a dog in this fight. He's racing for wins and to keep his ride after his next contract. JL is fighting for the championship.

Total votes: 91

I understand Rossi going to CAS to delay the penalty if not getting it removed totally. Lorenzo getting involved is, in my opinion, suicide with Yamaha. I think what Rossi did was wrong or at least poor judgement. The ruling against Rossi did make an allowance as they felt Marquez was obstructing Rossi be some degree. So both took some blame. Rossi going to arbitration is doing what anyone would do by trying to minimise the risk of losing something. Lorenzo getting involved is trying to make sure he wins the title. But as he was not involved in the actual incident it is not constructive for CAS to take his statement even though he would have something to lose if they delay. At the end of the day CAS could remove points from Rossi making him hand over the title to Lorenzo. But the pressure this division is placing within Yamaha both as a company and the race team may be too much to take and something may have to give. Lorenzo could be looking for another ride very soon (if he has not got one lined up as he must know this would be the straw that breaks the camel's back). The whole episode has hurt everyone involved with the initial claim that Marc Marquez and his family were attacked which now seems to have reports that his dad, brother and possibly Marc attacked the two Italian Journalists. Its a sad thing all round and it seems all of the initial reports of each and every incident may have a twist in the tail. It has tarnished the end of a good season.

Total votes: 153

Rossi has always needed to engineer 'enemies' in the championship, abetted by the disgraceful Italian press.
Whether it was Sete, or Casey, or Jorge, or now Marc, they are all interchangeable.

Having been given the softly, softly treatment by Race Direction, we are now in this unfortunate position where a championship may be decided in, or at least influenced by, the courts. Pretty sad IMHO.

All the haters who are now focusing on Jorge and/or Marc have shown their true colours, and if they quit following the sport - and Facebook and MotoMatters and the like - I for one won't miss them.

Jorge is quite entitled to seek to put his point of view. I bet his representatives would be arguing that there was enough evidence to apply a black flag and RD erred in not applying one, and that the current penalty is in fact softer than the one that should have been applied. They might reasonably argue that Vale DID get to keep the points that he would have lost had he been a lesser name in the sport. So because of his stature and the nature of the championship RD were influenced to give him treatment that would have been applied differently if it was a fight for tenth and eleventh, for example.

Total votes: 191

The word "hater" in a discussion thread is never a good sign. Neither is a reference to "showing their true colours". Both are attempts to polarise the argument, which is surely polarised enough already.

So tell me: David in his original article on the Sepang affray criticised Marc and Jorge as well as Valentino. Is he a hater who has shown his true colours? If I think Jorge's attempt to intervene in the CAS process was ill-advised (because the actual incident had nothing to do with him), does that make me a Jorge-hater? Actually I've always quite liked the guy.

Total votes: 145

Some of the photoshopped photos I have been sent by so-called fans of MotoGP has left me sickened. And some of the stuff on Facebook is offensive and should not be allowed to remain, in my opinion. The word 'haters' is not inaccurate from my view. Photos and comments that I would never have shown my kids.

I don't think the people who circulate this offensive trash are friends or lovers of the sport. I suspect that they are tribalists who feel the need to attach themselves to a winning person and compensate for their own comparative lack of talent by living their lives vicariously through these personalities.

For me, the argument has already been polarised. It happened at the Thursday press conference at Sepang and everything since then is fruit of that poisoned tree. For me, I hope Marc pursues Valentino through the courts in regard to the defamations uttered at Sepang. Valentino has put himself above the sport, to its long-term detriment I fear, and needs a good 'recalibration'.

I still think he's the best racer I've seen in the flesh, it's just a pity he's been so impetuous in regard to the allegations at Sepang and the invocation of a CAS appeal is disappointing. Jorge will long rue his decision to become involved, but if Vale thinks even another championship was worth the tarnish this business has put on his reputation, I think he's sorely mistaken.

Total votes: 135

I've seen countless comments like:

"All the haters who are now focusing on Jorge and/or Marc have shown their true colours, and if they quit following the sport - and Facebook and MotoMatters and the like - I for one won't miss them."

You may well not miss them; however the sport and therefore the teams will miss their money from attending and the sponsorship/advertising revenue that the higher viewing figures brings etc etc. A significant decline in attendance/viewing figures may see the bigger sponsors stay, however the smaller sponsors might soon decide their money is better spent elsewhere.

I'd also suggest that David would miss them - this site is largely paid for by donations and advertising revenue, less of both is not going to be a good thing for him.

It seems ridiculous to me that people would be "pleased" to see MotoGP become less popular and lose fans to football, F1, whatever. In today's world, EVERY sport is fighting for every single "fan" they can get.

If all the "haters" you describe did go, the likely impact on the sport will be massive. Factories (and factory supported) aside, most of the teams aren't exactly rolling in money. A significant drop off in MotoGP revenue would likely have a massive knock on to Moto2 and Moto3, where money is in even shorter supply. This would result in smaller grids, with less riders and teams.

The other "ugly" side to racing fans that the last two weeks have uncovered is the "I was a racer once" elitist "I've been following motorcycle racing since Ago" nonsense that is regularly regurgitated. As much I dislike some of the idiotic people that have shouted loudly over the last two weeks, their money is as good as anyone else's.

MotoGP is owned by Dorna, it doesn't "belong" to people who know all of the technical aspects of it - nor the people who have followed it the longest. Fans aren't in competition with each other (whatever their stand point) - they are all equal none is better than the other. There is no hierarchy.

Total votes: 128

....but another altogether to shovel dirt onto someone else. JL has totally lost any high ground in this sorry affair IMHO and started to dig his own hole!

whoops.... no pun intended :-)

Total votes: 143

If Rossi needed a way to leave Yamaha and take up a multi multi million euro offer to join a new Pepsi Suzuki squad (shhh...it's a secret) consider it done. Ciao Lin, Comme-stai Davide, hello childhood dream. Cha-Ching!

Total votes: 115

David, there's a statement from somebody at Yamaha (William Favero) that Lorenzo did this without consulting Yamaha and that they do not support this action. But it's in Italian. Was this an official Yamaha statement?

Total votes: 112

I'm not shocked Lorenzo would think of protecting his interests.

However, not sure what his lawyers were thinking. It's obvious he has no ground for intervening in a procedure on a penalty given by Race Direction to Rossi for an incident Lorenzo was not involved in.

Marquez could have intervened.

But Lorenzo, what could be the reason ? He would be competing against Rossi in Valencia ? Well so would every rider on the grid.

Total votes: 113

There is more info somewhere, they expected to be denied but the application allowed them to submit documents. IE evidence of previous cases to support the FIM and alert CAS that there was another party who would be affected by the decision.

Total votes: 97

JL has an interest in filing. His interest is in seeing that reckless on-track behaviour that results in riders crashing is dealt with quickly and decisively and to effectively detour the behaviour. Keeping in mind that all VR really has to do it to take out JL. A.K.A. The Spectacular Caparossi/Harada Move. The Spaniard may even assert that its part Italian cultural heritage :) Even if they both eat it VR wins by points. Honestly, I think VR only deserve 2 points because MM made the contact - didn't brake.

IMHO - If VR has to start at the back, JL should join him back there. This to show respect for his team, for himself, and for pure racing. That would be high ground.

Total votes: 135

I feel like the tensions between Rossi and Lorenzo are inevitable in this situation. Two riders in the same team, in close contention for the championship. Not inevitable that it would get nasty, but more likely than not. We've seen it all before and Sepang-gate is the catalyst in this case.

I think it's a bit stiff for people to be down on Lorenzo for a) speaking his mind about Rossi's conduct and b) doing his utmost to make sure Rossi gets what Lorenzo thinks he deserves, especially when it has such a huge bearing on his own propspects. Would we really rather just have Lorenzo mutter some bland remarks and platitudes about leaving it to the proper authorities, respecting the umpire's decision etc?

David goes to extraordinary lengths for balance but I feel like tarnishing Lorenzo - when all he's done is race to the fullest extent of his capabilities, comment when he's perfectly entitled to do so, and pursue a legal avenue likewise - is drawing a rather long bow.

Total votes: 138

CAS in conjunction with the FIM Permanent Bureau has ruled that the top three spots of the Championship are to be decided by a shootout lap of Laguna Seca on two-stroke powered unicycles. The riders are allowed a squirt gun and a nerf bat for weaponry. Carnage is anticipated at the Corkscrew. Biaggi rumored for a possible wild card appearance. Developing...

Total votes: 136

Wildcard ride for Biaggi , 4 days of testing scheduled for week before race

Total votes: 118

We are all partisans to some extent, but let's try to be objective. There seems to be a pretty strong consensus that Rossi deserved some type of penalty, whether it be black flag, ride-through or the 3 penalty points. Black flag would mean Rossi arrives at Valencia with an 8 point deficit to Jorge. Ride-through would've cost about 35 seconds, placing Rossi around 12th in Sepang, leaving Rossi with a 5 point deficit. 3 penalty points = Rossi arrives with 7 point lead but back of the grid start. Of those three options, I imagine Jorge strongly prefers the first two alternatives (i.e., to start Valencia with a lead so just finish in front of Rossi or possibly just behind). Race Direction makes their decision so Jorge has to live with his least preferred option. Fine. Now Rossi takes legal action to try to get his penalty deferred to next year? Jorge already feels Rossi got of lightly and now possibly zero penalty? Would you be annoyed if you were in Jorge's shoes? I certainly would be. There's no doubt that Rossi pulled an illegal move on Marquez so he should be penalized. It's simple - can anyone reasonably dispute that anymore? But now Rossi is trying to, for all intents and purposes, not be penalized. I know many have accused Rossi of getting special treatment in the past, but if he gets off with no penalty...wow, pretty clear for the world to see. I totally understand Jorge's position.

Total votes: 158

I think Lorenzo gets too much flak for just being Lorenzo.

It seems like the riders, sponsors, teams and fans are in a perpetual race to the bottom of how bitter and distasteful they can get in their words and actions.

I feel a possible solution to this whole situation could be for the RD to establish a tiger team made of ex-riders which studies the 5 laps of MM-VR confrontation in detail, with the telemetry information from the teams and re-evaluate VR's penalty. Work on it for 3 days straight if you have to, but get definite/objective answers, so that CAS can't possibly be a factor any more.

The information available in public domain right now is still open to interpretation and speculations. Telemetry data could help resolve that and I don't think the 30 minutes or so after the race were enough to compare telemetry data and draw meaningful conclusions. It definitely takes more time than that.

Total votes: 121

Has there been a consensus among the paddock over how this whole thing started? Was Marquez trying to hold up Rossi at Phillip island? I follow everything around motogp pretty closely and never once heard any mention of Marquez trying to manipulate the outcome until the Malaysian press conference. I don't see how with all the journalists and fans and insiders watching and reviewing every inch of the race that no one noticed something strange going on. I sure didn't see anything other than one of the best races ever.

Total votes: 147

Marquez was not trying to hold up Rossi at Phillip Island. He didn't care about Rossi or doing any favours for Lorenzo, how can there even be a question about this? He WON the race, and by beating Lorenzo of all people, for crying out loud.

Total votes: 149

trpipwr,

I posted a longer version of this under another one of David's excellent articles, though I am unable to find it to point you to it. A slightly shorter version of my previous "comment":

When I watched Philip Island initially, my take was that Marquez was “toying” with everyone — at the time, I wasn’t really convinced he was specifically focused on Rossi, but felt he had a lot in reserve.

I went back and watched Philip Island a number of times. Carefully. Then I checked the lap charts for JL, MM, VR, AI. Watched the race again. One thing that really caught my eye: With 11 laps to go, Marquez catches Lorenzo quite easily and takes the lead. He pulls out a small gap, but the 3 behind him get closer together (Lorenzo, Iannone, Rossi). With 9 laps to go, Marquez's crew shows him this pitboard: (EXACTLY this pitboard)

L8
+0.3
LOREN
+1

So I use my stopwatch and check who was "+1" a bit before the pit board. That’s the gap back to Rossi. Why would Marquez care? Unfortunately, we don’t get to see Marquez’s pit board again — would LOVE to have seen it every lap!

The next lap, Iannone and Rossi are on top of Lorenzo. And then… Marquez’s lap time slows .5 or .6 seconds. (he’s been consistently lapping at 1:29.8 plus/minus a tenth or so).

7 laps to go, Lorenzo passes Marquez with what appears to be relative ease. 6 laps to go, Iannone passes Marquez in a similar way.

3 laps to go, Iannone does his cool move and gets Rossi and Marquez in one corner, but that doesn’t last long. Marquez passes him a few corners later without much difficulty.

2nd to last lap, and Marquez’s lap time drops a full second, and then an *additional* .4 in the final lap. Catches Lorenzo with ease (it appears), and wins.

Was MM directly effecting Rossi? Hmm… maybe not *specifically*, but I feel he was “backing up” Rossi and Ianonne pretty much at will since it sure seems he had .5-1 second in reserve. And we all know he’s more than talented enough to do this if he wanted to. The other thing to watch with Marquez is his physical demeanor on the bike. When he’s at 101%, his body language is very different from when he's at 95%.

fwiw...

Total votes: 139

This is very, very interesting. I didn't understand the +1 at the time, but what you describe is remarkable. I suspect Rossi would have seen this and understood it...but who knows? Sometimes David exposes details that are quite remarkable and unexpected - I wonder if you've found something here.

Total votes: 98

I was criticising VR very much for his view on the PI race, I just couldnt see anything of it. But, I did believe immediately that MM was giving VR a hard time in Sepang, just to give him a hard time. Still, VR should have never ever done what he did, but anyway.

Howver, more and more I see the sign of MM playing in PI. His laptimes are not consistent, which is not (all) explainable by errors or burning the front tyre. The lap with "3 laps to go" is very suspicious, especially when you hear MM's commentary to the journalists at parc ferme. He said when he caught JL, he felt movement in the front en slowed down to get the feeling back, which explains the situation. Then he was trying to feel if it got back and he decided to push at 3 laps from the end.

Actually, THIS lap, was one of his worst laps of the race with 1.30.564 and 7 tenths slower than the previous lap and VR nearly runs in the back of MM at turn 8, before attempting the pass at turn 10. And VR was not doing a faster lap, actually also slower than previous laps. Then the next lap, MM drops his laptime with 9 tenths to 1.29.658 while doing to 2 overtakes (one Ianonne took back). And the next one he drops it another 4 tenths to overtake JL....

Total votes: 100

For all we know, this may have been a management team decision and not necessarily one that JL99 was particularly gunning for. However, given his Sepang press conference performance, I think he was in on it all the way.

While his "material interest in these proceedings" is the effect the decision can have on his championship hopes, I don't think that the spirit of rule R41.3 was meant for non-injured party participation. MotoGP fans who have been injured (i.e. having to suffer these 2 weeks of darkness and gloom over the series because of the incident and off-track madness) have more of a right to seek to be a party to the appeal (both for and against) than does Lorenzo.

The problem with Lorenzo injecting himself into this saga is that he is trying to take advantage of the situation between Rossi, Marquez and race direction. Lorenzo was not (directly) accused of any unsportsmanlike conduct by Rossi and he was not involved in the Sepang incident. This was Rossi's injury to accept or fight against and whether or not it makes a difference in Lorenzo's championship chances is irrelevant. For that reason, he shouldn't have a say in the matter and I am glad the CAS dismissed his application.

Where he needed to have his say was - on the track. In fact, that is where all of this should have been settled ... not in the press or in the courts.

Total votes: 145

No, I don't see this as Jorge trying to "take advantage of the situation between Rossi, Marquez and race direction". Rather, Jorge is trying to prevent Rossi from taking advantage of a procedural rule (i.e., delay) to avoid any penalty in 2015. Rossi's illegal conduct happened in 2015, but Rossi wants to delay his penalty to 2016. Seem fair to you? I understand Rossi's move with the CAS - his 10th championship pretty much depends on it - but he has zero moral high ground here. I lost a little respect for Rossi at Sepang (heat of the moment, provoked, etc.), but significantly more after his filing with the CAS.

Total votes: 142

The basis of Rossi's appeal was not the correctness of the RD decision, but the 'irreparable damage' to his reputation and career.

Since any 'damage' has to be Rossi's chance of gaining a 10th WC and Lorenzo is his only competitor for that, it is obvious that - by the corollary of the appeal basis - upholding the appeal must materially affect Lorenzo's WC chance. If that were not so, then the appeal has no substantiation.

To uphold the appeal lodged according to Rossi's grounds, means that Rossi's chances of gaining the WC would be improved. Again - by logic - that means that upholding the appeal MUST result in a lowering of Lorenzo's chances - there is NO OTHER possible, logical result. Rossi has set the battlefield in this matter.

Hence, to refuse to allow Lorenzo to present 'evidence' (even if the CAS simply says: 'thank you, we have noted what you have said, we discount it, bugger off"), means that the CAS is not considering Rossi's appeal on the legal grounds on which consideration of his appeal has been accepted.

That Lorenzo's starting position viz-a-viz Rossi's for the final race to decide the WC is affected by Rossi's starting position is not in contention: Rossi's challenge has made it the primary issue. Hence, in the case that Rossi's penalty for riding contrary to the rules is set aside, Lorenzo has his chances of securing the WC reduced - and that is surely a 'material consideration' - one that has been bought into focus by Rossi's challenge - NOT by Lorenzo.

According to RD's decision, Rossi broke the existing rules of combat by forcing Marquez wide; Lorenzo was no party to that. However, potentially, Rossi improved his situation in the WC points chase by his action IF his appeal is upheld - affecting Lorenzo's chances.

Since Rossi is taking 'Sepangate' to 'Litigate', Lorenzo has every right in natural justice to defend his own situation.

To deny Lorenzo at least the opportunity to present facts/opinions on the validity of the penalty accrued by Rossi, smells of a stitch-up.

Total votes: 126

"The basis of Rossi's appeal was not the correctness of the RD decision, but the 'irreparable damage' to his reputation and career."

I think this is incorrect. The basis of the appeal IS the propriety of the penalty in view of Rossi's conduct, FIM precedent, and mitigating circumstances. The basis of the application for preliminary relief from the execution of that improper (in his view) penalty is its irreparable impact on his championship points standing.

Total votes: 102

Whatever one thinks of Rossi, he is a genius at off track mind games. Great fun watching the master spin his webs.

Total votes: 118

Really? He seemed to lose it pretty badly at Sepang, and now will likely have to start from the back of the grid and may lose the championship because of it. That doesn't sound like a master of manipulation to me, it sounds like someone who screwed up and now is trying to avoid the consequences.

Total votes: 124

I think given the fact that nothing went terribly wrong in the Rossi-Marquez duel we can have plenty of things to say about Rossi, Marquez, Lorenzo, and anybody else that we can think of. I would not want to imagine if the consequences of that days racing was another Marco Simoncelli, Wayne Rainey.... I wonder if we would have spoken about entitlements, being merciless in the World Championship not being wrong, it was just an incident and making something very big out of nothing. I think we are all happy making comments when there is no tragedy, but maybe it would do us good to remember that what Rossi and Marquez were doing that day may have ended with another tragedy at Sepang. After all Rossi did drive over a fallen Simoncelli (whom he called his friend) at Sepang and Marc Marquez developed his vision problems after a practice crash at Sepang. Memories are short indeed.

Total votes: 119

What does Sic's terrible accident have to do with this?
Racers shouldn't give it their all? Motorcycle racing is dangerous?
What are you trying to say?

Total votes: 112

.........should be on the track.

Rossi moved it to the court room, therefore opponents must fight him there as well. Whether they like it or not and as unsavoury as it is. They must feel they have little choice.

Total votes: 108

Who would have imagined thar Dani would stand as a giant among aliens?

(off to the airport, handbag packed)

Total votes: 113

Being older has afforded me some years of watching many races and racing series. Over that time I've seen tempers flare and on track actions that have been questionable or worse. Often some penalty has ensued and almost as often appealed by the racer involved. What I can't ever recall is a third party (and one not directly involved in the actual event that brought about the sanction) try to interject themselves in the appeal process. Anyone have an example that I am missing? In any race series?

Total votes: 102

Im 48 & have been racing and around racing from age 4. I too cannot recall a third party becoming involved unless of course it was a multi racer incident. However I have no experience to draw upon from the GP paddock, only what I have seen and read.

Total votes: 91

DP absolutely comes out of this as the “bigger man” and the only one likely to gain fans. Okay he’s the only one out of the four who doesn’t stand to lose the title of world champion at the end of the year but I suspect he would still show more dignity even if he was. IMHO JL, VR and MM have all overstepped the line and it has tainted what should have been the amazing climax to a great season (I’m not so doom and gloom about future seasons/the future of the sport as others). Sadly, it will now be memorable for all the wrong reasons. It shows how all these guys are consistently having to push beyond their own psychological and physical limits and it has taken its toll with three back-to-back flyaways and a close championship finale.

JL – I don’t agree with the comments of other posts. JL and his camp have no business in applying to be part of the CAS hearing. It is between VR and Dorna/FIM in relation to an incident that JL was nothing to do with. I can be accused of being biased (as any of us can) but this and his post-race comments accumulate to look like he is more interested and invested in securing the championship by the penalty awarded to the current championship leader than either achieving it on merit (i.e. on track, which he is more than capable of and highly likely to do) or making a more forceful point about the safety element of the crash (a point he has been able to make via the press without the need to attend CAS already). How is that angle from JL any better than VR wanting to appeal the decision so that the championship can be decided on track, which so many people seem to be criticising him for? VR has every right to appeal as he does not want one stupid provoked (race direction agree), yet serious, incident to decide what would be for him a historical and potentially final championship when he has worked to get himself back in a position to win it for years and has worked his butt off all year to lead. I wonder also if JL has asked himself what he would do if MM was racing him so aggressively (with both riders at risk of crashing) if he had a diminishing lead in the championship and VR was riding off ahead.

VR – I’ll admit I am a fan but I don’t agree with his actions: i) if he did speak to DP after being beaten by him a few races back - the overtakes were all fair and safe and VR did not seem to have the confidence in his front end to make the overtakes stick, but seemed more interested in protecting points and not crashing so DP won fairly; ii) use of the press/conference at Sepang as he was clearly kicking a hornet’s nest with MM; iii) the manoeuvre in the race as he went too straight for too long too slow and looking at MM too many times; iv) although not his fault some fans and Italian media have acted disgracefully since. HOWEVER, I don’t condone his on track actions but I can understand what drove him to them, which brings us on to MM…

MM – I would ask everyone to consider the following questions: i) have you ever seen someone conserve tyres mid race and wait until the VERY LAST LAP to overtake 2-3 riders (PI)? Amazing to watch but range of possible motives not all of which are savoury. Have you ever seen such sustained aggressive overtakes so early in a race with no clear intention of catching up to the front runners and no apparent need as usual pattern would be cat and mouse then later overtake (Sepang)? How many times did both MM and VR nearly crash prior to the final incident (I count at least three so it was growing increasingly likely one or both would crash or get hurt if it continued)? How many of those near-misses would have taken BOTH riders down (only MMs sideways overtake on the inside as far as I can tell - VRs were all losing the back end whilst chasing MM)? How many times did VR look at MM or gesture before the incident and how did MM respond? Who therefore seemed most keen to try to avoid the inevitable? Have you seen the onboard of VR in MMs final overtake where he nearly hits the front end of VR? Not unusual but you can understand how it was the straw that broke the camels back after the build up. Why was the points system VR has been the victim of introduced in the first place (MM) and how many times has that individual potentially lost a championship as a result of it or been properly penalised for moves that NO-ONE would deny were dangerous (apart from Sepang all of VRs previous questionable moves have split opinion)?

I've avoided commenting until now as really wanted to avoid all the partisanship and really am disappointed in all concerned but I am increasingly frustrated by some comments I am reading even on here. I am not condoning VRs actions but would ask people to also be objective about the role JL and MM are playing here too.

Total votes: 106

JL - You say that CAS proceeding is only between CAS and Rossi. Look at it from Jorge's perspective. Rossi causes MM crash with intentional, illegal move but still collects 16 points. So Rossi wants to keep the 16 points but not suffer the penalty that is directly linked to those 16 points. Sound right to you? Fair? I think Jorge is more than willing to fight Rossi on the track (and not arbitration panel), but it's Rossi's appeal to CAS that caused Jorge to act. What Jorge doesn't want to do is start 7 points behind when Rossi really did not earn those 16 points fair and square. I am trying to be objective, but simply do not understand why people think Jorge is doing something underhanded. It's Rossi who is being underhanded by trying to intentionally delay his penalty. Rossi's CAS appeal is simply a delay tactic to give him best chance winning the championship. If Dorna made an offer to both Rossi and Jorge to start Valencia with level points, I think Jorge would accept happily, Rossi less so. Rossi wants desperately to start Valencia with his (in my view, unearned) 7 point advantage.

VR - You say you don't "condone his on track actions but can understand what drove him." So are you also willing to say Rossi should not suffer his penalty this year? You seem to agree that Rossi did something wrong, for which he was penalized. But you are ok with Rossi using a procedural tactic to avoid penalty this year? You don't see anything underhanded with Rossi's request to delay penalty until full arbitration proceeding can be completed? I don't think anyone, for a second, believes Rossi actually cares what final CAS decision is. Rossi's appeal has one purpose: to delay his penalty so he can have the biggest advantage over Jorge at Valencia. That is what I find so troubling about Rossi's appeal and his claims to want to "fight Jorge on level terms" at Valencia. I find it, at best, disingenuous.

Total votes: 110

I hope the penalty stands and rossi still win the championship. It's the only way he deserve if he wins it in my opinion. That penalty is fair enough for both marquez and rossi.

Total votes: 88