FIM Opens Consultation For Moto2 Spec Engine Supply From 2019 Onwards

The era of Honda's monopoly in Moto2 could be drawing to an end. Today, the FIM announced that they were putting the engine supply for Moto2 out to tender, and asking for proposals from potential engine suppliers. The Moto2 class is to remain a single make engine class, with engines managed and supplied by the series organizer. 

The announcement comes as a result of Honda's CBR600 powerplant, which has powered the Moto2 bikes since the inception of the class, reaches the end of its service life. The engines are virtually unchanged since their introduction in 2010, and Honda cannot guarantee the supply of spares for the engines beyond the current contract, which ends after the 2018 season. A replacement will be needed, whether it comes from Honda or from another manufacturer. 

The first stage of the new process will be to consult with manufacturers on the basics of the class, while retaining the cornerstones of the Moto2 class: affordability, reliability, and a level playing field. Unfortunately, that is likely to rule out small, specialist engine builders, as Dorna and IRTA (who represent the Moto2 teams) will want to ensure the long-term (6+ years) supply of engines. Switching engine suppliers once, at the end of 2018, will be traumatic, as it will mean having to throw away all of their old chassis, and start to build up experience with the new bikes almost from scratch. What they will not want to do is to have to switch again after two or three years, as that would then send costs through the roof. Once the consultation process is complete, then the contract will be formally put out to tender, and open to bids from interested manufacturers.

So who might those manufacturers be? Certainly, the major Japanese manufacturers engaged in MotoGP would be interested. Both Honda and Yamaha submitted bids for the initial contract, for the start of the 2010 season, with Honda eventually getting the contract. But Suzuki and even Kawasaki could equally be interested, given that they have 600cc sports bikes which could supply suitable engines. KTM has previously expressed an interest, especially in build 500cc twins using the same 81mm bore as a Moto3 and MotoGP bike. That engine would basically be twice a Moto3 bike and half a MotoGP engine. However, the Austrian engine maker has always said they are only interested if there was engine competition, and that will not happen.

Losing Honda will upset the teams. The Moto2 class has proven to be extremely popular with the teams, as it is an extremely affordable class. A team can obtain a chassis, engine, and brake and suspension supply for a full season for well under €200,000. A bike in Moto3 costs between €300,000 and €500,000 per season, depending on the manufacturer (and despite the cost cap in place). The teams all have a vast amount of data and experience with the chassis, and all this will be lost when Honda goes.

Below is the press release from the FIM announcing the move.


FIM opens consultation with potential Moto2 engine suppliers

Following the announcement that Honda Racing Corporation would continue to be the official engine supplier for the FIM Moto2 World Championship for three more years (2016 to the end of 2018), the Fédération Internationale de Motocyclisme (FIM) and Dorna Sports will now start talks with other potential candidates for the exclusive engine supplier for the class from 2019 onwards.

The goal of this first stage of consultation will be to take in feedback from manufacturers to further foster the key values of the Moto2 class: keep it accessible and affordable, and offer a level playing field to teams and riders by providing reliable and consistently performing engine units.

The FIM and Dorna will be listening to and engaging in discussions with interested manufacturers until the end of the season, ahead of the actual tender process that will be launched by the end of the year, in order to elect the official engine supplier from 2019 onwards.

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Comments

Let the premier class have a monopoly on the fours.
I admit I'm biased - but I like the idea of a class for a twin or a triple. A V-twin makes especially sweet music.

Total votes: 85

I totaly agree with you a 2stroke V twin sounds like sweet music ;-)

Total votes: 86

Kinda disappointing. I feel like we've gotten to a point now in moto2 where it IS time to bring in engine competition. Having a "level playing field" is great and all but how level is it? Better teams will always get better components even if the engine is the same. The 250s got out of hand but with the success (?) of the new motogp era, couldn't they still keep costs in check even with multiple engine suppliers?
And look at moto3. The 125s were getting out of hand price wise, but we still have 3 (or 4 depending on how you view the Husqies) manufacturers in moto3. It took a couple years but now the Hondas and KTMs are pretty much right there.
So why say it can't/shouldn't be done in moto2?

Total votes: 80

I do see your point, but once different manufacturers start competing with one another, the costs will skyrocket.
As the article points out, the teams love it because Moto2 provides great opportunities for exposure on a world stage without breaking the bank. Why screw up a good thing?

Total votes: 86

Totally agree, BUT what about moto3? Different engines and at Le Mans you could've thrown a blanket over the top 4, KTMs and Hondas in there. Yet in Moto2 the past few races really haven't been all that close, the leader gets away and has been winning by a fair margin. I'm just saying I don't think different engine makes mean there won't be close battles.
As for price, I'd guess I'd have to see how costs compared to 125 and moto3 in comparison to Moto2 costs.

Total votes: 93

I would agree, would love to see Kawasaki, Yamaha et all represented, regardless of it getting more expensive. It can only go so high, keep out seamless, ceramic stuff and it won't be too crazy. I think it would be much more interesting. Like you said, there is already getting to be a big divide among teams/bikes...

You voted 3. Total votes: 90

No clear right/wrong here. From my view the concern in Moto2 is the odd and disappointing nearly single chassis/bike it gravitated to. I say bring change there before engine competition. The spec engine brings barriers to entry WAY down. First things first...I sincerely anticipated small builders coming back out of the woodwork and having 7 or so Speed Up or Tech 3 like projects.

If that 2007--> CBR600RR bike gets replaced, Honda won't want to keep making those engines, so retaining the old chassis would have to go anyway. Even if Honda stayed, the next Gen engine wouldn't have the same mounts or characteristics. I am amazed they can go 8 years on that one engine spec! That in itself is fairly amazing.

Next contract it might be nice to have Kawasaki. For a bunch of reasons. Personally I would prefer the Triumph or MV 675 triple which would come with some good schtuff on it like the 675R does, and know that would never happen. So Kawi please.
:)

Now then - how to get more bike builder/team projects into the field?

Total votes: 90

Way too late. Moto2 is already almost spec. The teams may love it but who really cares about that? If getting rid of the current engine gets rid of a third of the teams on the grid I wouldn't lose one night's sleep over it and we'd still have a large field.

It's uninteresting from a technological and spectator perspective. As spec racing always is and always will be.

Total votes: 88

I don't get it...How is it that the entry level lightweight "beginner's" class have the more expensive technically advanced prototype machines than the next class up? There's no progression here. There SHOULD be a progression in age, rider skill, and machines from the bottom to the top. Dorna should make moto 2 just like moto 3, but with bigger more powerful middleweight machines (4-stroke 500cc twins with the same 81mm bore as moto 3 and moto gp. Or if they're going the route of production derived middleweight sport bike engines then at least open up the engines to multiple manufactures like moto 3 and moto gp which would open up to more chassis so we don't see a "spec" class. (Kalex Hondas with Dunlop tires) I know they're trying to cut down on costs, but shouldn't they have done that to the entry level moto 3 class instead or do the same to that class as well? No consistent structure. At least when it was all 2-strokes there was a consistent class machine structure (125-singles/250-twins/500-fours) What we have is basically GP2 of F1 racing. Spec everything just different teams and drivers. And BTW how are these current Honda cbr600rr motors "super stock" spec when they're making close to 140bhp? Supersport Hondas make around
140bhp-150bhp. superstock Honda motors make around 130bhp. With a current "bone-stock" cbr600rr making 118bhp, these engines aren't really built to be reliable in this case.

Total votes: 84

Actually they should scupper Moto2 Honda ASAP. Nevermind, 20 something tender process. As I understand the development of the Dorna series post 2 stroke pertaining to intermediate class, the 600's replaced the 2 stroke 250. In the interests of cost saving 125 2 stroke was scrapped. In favour of a common base structure GP was bound to an 81mm bore and 1000cc and Moto3 has the same limitation. Yet, we sit with the nowhere Moto2 class. The Kalex/Honda class.
Many moons back I said this would happen.
Specifically the frame/running gear manufacturers would control the races as the engine was stock HRC. Turned out as figured. What happened to Suter?
If they want to regenerate the intermediate class, the GPC have to merely apply the bore limit of 81mm and apply it to M3/M2 and GP.
250 singles, 500 twins and 1000 quads. That would cut costs.A bloke could salvage a good piston from a 250 Desmo single and slot it into a 500 Desmo twin or hand it to a 1000 Desmo 4 pot rider/team.
You know what! M2 was exciting when Toni Elias won its inception and Marc Marquez did his thing.
Since then, I don't know. I usually take a lunch break Moto 2 Honda Cup these days. AND, this is is not to discredit riders in M2. Like all, they do what they can on the day.
This class needs to be revamped to OPEN like M3, open to any manufacurer. 500CC TWINS.
I would love to see Mahindra, Ducati, Suzuki, HRC, KTM etc contesting a 500cc twin class.
No mention of Yamaha, well, they are the smoothie 4's. Period.
Really, its not such a big issue to open it all up for everyone.
Last time I checked, HRC built a damn competitive twin. Ask Colin.

You voted 1. Total votes: 91

Hi David

Was the press release from the FIM or was it a Dorna release?

Reason I ask is that I thought Dorna controlled all commercial aspects of grand prix motorcycle racing.

Total votes: 72

This was a press release issued by the FIM. However, they are merely acting as a conduit for Dorna, in this instance. Dorna, owning the commercial rights, are entitled to speak for the FIM in this respect.

Total votes: 79

It gives me some time to get a coffee, do the dishes after dinner and prepare my stuff for work the next day in between watching Moto3 and MotoGP! :)

Seriously, the class is a total snooze. Cost capped twins of a similar structure to Moto3 would be the go. And proper manufacturers I've heard of, not some obscure machine shop in Switzerland that no race fan is ever going to have any business with. The teams may be happy, but if nobody is interested in it what is the point?

Total votes: 78

Spec Engines, how hard can it be?

With a stock ECU, set bore and stroke dimensions, a rev limit is set (thus limiting one avenue for HP).

Mandate catalog suppliers for pistons, valve springs and valves (all set to specific dimensions) (thus limiting another avenue for HP).

Specify the cam lift and rate of lift (thus limiting another avenue for HP).

Make all these dimensions around the same as current production 600cc engines (which are all very very similar anyway), and give scope to bespoke engines also.

Total votes: 90

2019 is almost four years away and I see no reason to get upbeat or upset with this news that FIM and Dorna are going to call for tenders from engine manufacturers for spec engines in Moto2. My money is on Honda. This whole tender thing is an eye wash. I think it is to make people believe that there is some kind of democracy at work here and that Honda gets to supply since it has presented the best quote. I don't really believe this to be the case. Apart from Esteve Rabat who seems to love the class and so stayed back to defend his title, no other rider is in Moto2 is there out of choice. Tenders will be called for and Honda gets it again since no one else will be bothered. The company in charge of sealing the engines and distributing them will love working with Honda further since they already have a smooth working arrangement.

Honda keeping in view the problems of cost escalations if Kalex has to change its chassis will produce a new engine which will be like the old. Anyway, I do not think Suzuki and Kawasaki have the interest or the capacity to build so many engines. So it will be this way even from 2019 to whenever. Moto2 is an antique racing category and I guess it will be kept that way to keep costs down. At some point if some collector of bikes offers Honda and Kalex a zillion dollars to buy the antique collection then we could see some change. Till then it will be like the new Mad Max, where people are finding whatever parts and creating machines out of them.

Total votes: 79

•The racing isn't close
• the teams have become clones of each other
• it's almist a single chassis championship now
• technical innovation has ground to s halt

Sorry folks, this is world championship racing that's become a single make club racing class.

Boring. A perfect example of why to much cost cutting or 'value engineering' reduces the final product.

Bring back technical innovation and riders cutting each other's throats to be on the best bike;
•Fixed capacity
• Rev limit
• use a control ecru if you want but the richest teams will still have the most data techs.

Even iif FIM said 600 fours was the class rule with super stock engines but let any manufacturer enter that would be a great improvement.
Imagine the Kalex Honda fighting with the Suter Suzuki, Harris Yamaha and Mahindra Kawasaki in the last corner?

Fix Moto2, it is broken

Total votes: 99

I like Moto 3 because despite knowing who will be at the sharp end (most of the time), the actual winner isn't usually decided until the end of the race. I like MotoGP more than ever because despite knowing Yamaha and Honda are in a class of their own above the rest, we can now have good competition for the podium from the top 6 riders (when healthy).

Yes, I know some people hate the concession rules in MotoGP as giving unfair advantages but I think most people want to see a full grid with a variety of chassis and engines and many teams with the possibility of winning/competing on any given weekend in all classes.

With the success of MotoGP and Moto 3, why wouldn't they be able to come up with something similar for Moto 2? Clearly, a spec class is not in line with the rest of MotoGP racing or the interests of the fans (if you go by what you read online).

When it was first announced Honda would supply the spec engine for Moto 2, I thought it was a way to "financially compensate" them for not fighting the concession rules and spec electronics in MotoGP. Now I think there has to be another reason behind the "business logic" for this decision because in all honesty, I really can't think of a good reason for continuing the Moto 2 formula of racing after the Honda contract is over.

Total votes: 76

...as it has achieved what it set out to do.

The 250 class was too expensive and too elitist, Moto 2 has levelled the playing field. The surrounding classes though have now moved on, and Moto 2 is now like the un-invited guest at the party.

I would like to see a choice of engines, be they production based or bespoke for the class, with a rev limit and maybe a way to have differing engines with differing characteristics in power delivery. I would also like to see the number of chassis from a manufacturer capped with a price cap to prevent bidding wars. Even go all American and have a "chassis draft" each year with the renewal of chassis / engine combination a bit more unpredictable.

Ok, that is a bit extreme, but if costs are prohibiting a return to pure prototype racing for all classes, then the organisers have to strive to prevent a one make formula from happening again, as we now have.

Total votes: 77

As already mentioned by breganzane (2015-05-20 23:53) above, moto2 is very welcome as a lunch and coffee break between the moto3 and MotoGP race. Moto2 does not interest me one bit from the moment when it was introduced, since I can't relate to any of the bikes. I can not cheer on the rider on my favorite brand, and the bikes are not even real GP bikes with their spec road bike engine. It's maybe OK as a national cup class, but it has no place in GP racing.

Since the start in 2010 things have only become worse, now that it has turned into a Kalex Honda CBR600 Cup. Also, I cannot imagine any manufacturer being interested to supply engines, unless they make money by simply selling them. I guess however that they will have to pay Dorna, instead of the other way around.

Why not save even more costs and skip this class altogether? Jack Miller already did and he seems to be hindered more by a mediocre production Honda than the step from moto3 to MotoGP.

To be completely honest, I don't like moto3 that much either, with those astmatic farting 250cc four-stroke singles (and their spec fuel injection systems), but at least you can still build/choose your own engine and there are actual motorcycle brands fighting it out. A few more would be better still, but at least the possibility is there.

Logic dictates that moto2 should become a 500cc class with twin cylinder engines, even though I'd like to see more freedom than that in GP racing. But 500cc four-stroke twins do fit in the current trend in road bikes (because of the A2 license) and could even give that class a real commercial boost, with really sporty full-power versions as a follow-up for your 48 hp A2 bike. I think a lightweight 90 hp 500 twin (easy to make from half a 1000) would be a blast to ride!

So instead of standardizing to cut costs, would it not be better to increase interest from manufacturers, spectators and - as a result - sponsors? Up till then, I'll take the lunch break.

Total votes: 76

are on display in this thread!

Does nobody remember the spec class that was the "Aprilia Cup" before Moto2? That had to be the most expensive spec bike class in history with upwards of €1,000,000 for a single RSA 250, never mind the rest of the costs involved in actually running a campaign. The chosen few on factory RSA's vs the rest on RSW's was a farce.

This "snooze fest" malarkey is surely generated in your head by your own preconceptions. You can't tell what is under the skin of the bikes while they are circulating, all you can judge is the way the bikes are ridden, and the current bikes are faster and far better to watch than the old "wheels in line" 250's.

But you're right, watching Marquez vs Espargaro, Marquez vs Bradl, Redding vs Espargaro vs Kallio etc has been pretty ordinary....

And what is so cool about Moto3 that supposedly makes it sexy compared to Moto2? I mean what are the technological innovations that make it so exciting? I'm all ears because I can't think of anything. Besides the price tag I mean. Seriously, I swear there are people on here who, when faced with 2 identical items with different price tags would buy the more expensive under the mistaken belief that it must be better.

I can't see how the racing would be improved one iota if we were watching €1,000,000 500cc twins from various manufacturers circulating at similar speeds to current bikes that are a fraction of the price. Actually I think it would be a laughable situation to have bikes that (if the engine rules went open, even with a rev or bore limit) cost many times as much just to do a similar lap time and fulfil the same intermediate class role. Who benefits from that?

So we've had one year with mostly Kalex's on the grid. One single year. Lowes is stirring the pot on his Speed-up so I dare say next year we will see more if they are priced right. And despite all the "spec-class" talk we do still have Tech 3 and Suter on the grid with Tech 3 finishing inside the top 10.

My feeling is this is one situation when the team owners/operators should be listened to. Listen to the folks in the pits who are actually chasing sponsors, balancing budgets, working with riders and generally doing what others are only talking about. Make the class another spendathon and all the good work is undone.

Total votes: 92

Hey! Did we just write these at the same time 749?
Right there with you my friend.

Total votes: 80

All this burbling about the requirement for scientific breakthroughs in the lower classes sounds like hogwash to me. If there was an appetite for it, I'm sure DE would have furnished some articles, but I can't recollect a single in-depth investigation of Moto3 technology.
The complaining about asthmatic 250cc singles is irresponsible. Does anybody really want to put sixteen-year-olds on faster, heavier machines after seeing how their inexperience leads to hairy situations? Must some of them die for our greater amusement?
The remarks about making coffee during Moto2 are also crass. The top Moto2 riders have great skills, and there are often brutal scraps down the field. If you're too jaded to appreciate up-and-coming talent, it's just sad.
As 749 said, anybody who likens Moto2 to a snooze fest has become a victim of their own prejudices. It's provided some great racing over the years - maybe it now needs some tweaking, but there's no need to get silly. Ideally I'd prefer to see multiple factories dueling it out - but sponsor money isn't unlimited and we need to listen to the people who put the bikes on the grid.

Total votes: 79

So since we can't see what's under the skin of these racing machines should dorna make Moto 3 all production Honda cbr300 street singles with Kalex chassis as well? I mean it would still make for interesting close racing and keep the cost wayyyy down for more teams to have a chance at gp racing. After all...it is just the beginner entry level feeder class right? "Hey KTM, Husqvarna, and Mahindra go home we got this" I thought when dorna took over wsbk/wss there would be a clear distinction between production road racing and actual prototype Grand Prix racing...While they're at it, they might as well tell Ducati, Suzuki, and Yamaha to go home so teams can save even more money and the riders and teams will all get spec Honda fireblade motors stuffed in a "prototype" chassis branded as an rc213v lol and call it a day! "Hey dad what's the difference between these bikes and the other ones that we see that guy sylvain guintoli racing? Nothing son just a stiffer frame and swing arm"

You voted 1. Total votes: 86

You guys are tough!

Just to toss in another view, it has not been very long since Moto2 produced GREAT races. Bar bashing, cut throat, close, sliding racing. And I identify with the bikes because I have always had either a 600 or 1000 track sorted bike in my garage. Less electronics. Full grid. Hungry riders.

Moto3 has KTM and Honda. And is pricey. And the motors are exciting...if you ride dirt bikes and supermoto. "Asthmatic and farting" - love it Pvalve! They sound like WWII airplanes. The racing is great, and I am not knocking it as much as pointing out that it shan't be glorified to the degree it is in order to knock Moto2.

MotoGP HAS been a 2 Manu show for a good while, and we JUST got through getting that back on course. Grids are back up to a healthy size. More manufacturers are getting back in. The global economy has not recovered evenly, there is still austerity and unemployment in so many countries and regions. We are moving into new areas that are essential markets. New tracks are popping up again.

Yes, it is time to get a look at Moto2, and I am surprised that we are looking at JUST the engine contract and all the way out to 2018. But that is the state of affairs, a contract is in place. I agree that the single spec engine is not preferable. Also that the twin 500cc with similar spec to half a MotoGP engine makes some sense and is interesting. It is also making lots of sense to have a 600cc four in some other considerations, like cost, the character of the engine output of a 4cyl being more like MotoGP than a twin, that it links to the popularly sold production bikes, that it is a close fit to power output of a 250GP engine, so on. 500 twin production bikes are "sporty standards" and pieces of sh#t with archaic technology. Beginner bikes. Let Moto3 emulate the entry level bikes if we must.

Also, it seems wise to put first things first. The vision of Moto2, was it to have a Kalex cup? No. Let's fold that concern in with the next set of engine rules. Ok, I am on board with you folks about preferring a change to opening the engines up to competition. Sincerely. The cost of participation is going to SEVERELY increase though, and we may remain in the same situation as Moto3 where we have TWO spendy bikes rather than one cheap one. Not an good outcome from where I sit.

"When in doubt, ask Herve Poncheral."
Hey Herve, how do we get several more outfits like yours and Speed Up to turn out for 2017? Want to open up the engines to Superstock 600cc fours, or a prototype 500 twin perhaps, or stick with a spec crated motor from Dorna? Why?

When wanting more info, ask Sam Lowes. And those that are potential and past entrants. Teams are buying bikes, and want to win. On a Kalex. Shift entry focus such that the bottom 33% of the field's grid slots are for chassis builder - team collaboration projects, and that a bike builder must provide for two teams if requested. The builder wants in, and the existing team was not successful as a "customer" of current favorite Kalex. They have the grid slot and team established. Another builder can team up with them. Look who just bought Harris - don't they want in? And Suter. And Mahindra. And so on.

Get their input on the engine too. But please do keep costs down at this point if you want the class to flourish (ahem - 600cc fours).

:)
M U G E L L O ! ! !

Total votes: 82

Really? What you are implying is that this idea of a 500cc Moto2 class that uses a twin cylinder engine will be like a Kawasaki EX500. Then you are comparing that to current 600cc sportsbikes. The reality is nothing like that.

What Honda would do is cut their MotoGP engine in half and use a V Twin as would Ducati, if you could convince them to enter. KTM would be very interested I am sure. The spin offs and possibilities for growth are myriad. What about tyres? Keep the Moto2 ban on electronics and the combined rider/bike weight limit. And allow carbon wheels. They are legal on the road in Germany but not in "prototype" racing. What is that nonsense about? Freddie Spencer's broken Honda wheel 21 years ago?

Total votes: 81

The middleweight class is part of the progression to Moto GP that all riders strive for. It also is the "preferred" route that the talent must go through to prove their ability.

Since the switch from 250cc strokers in 2010, the only non 250cc transitioned rider to win a Moto GP race (with the obvious exception of the freakish talent that is Marc Marquez who could win races on a Penny Farthing) was Ben Spies.

Of the past and current crop of Moto 2 graduates/race winners/champions, Andrea Iannone looks the most likely to become only the 2nd former Moto 2 racer to win at Moto GP level.

Yes it takes exceptional talent to win at Moto GP, a bit of luck and the right machinery, but my question is this: is Moto2 preparing the riders for Moto GP as well as the 250cc era did? Based on the stats, no. If it was down to the 250cc class regulations or the fact that the end of the 250cc era produced the talents of Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Stoner, Dovizioso and Simoncelli, the likes if which have not been seen since in Moto2, I don't know. The fact that Moto 2 has not carried the 250cc class momentum forward is quite startling. If you look at the current Moto 2 field, I would only put Alex Rins as a possible star of the future.

The talk of renewing the engine contract is out of necessity, but some thought is needed to look at how to reduce the gap between Moto 2 and Moto GP, as well as a way to develop the talent. Given that the current formula produces full grids, is affordable and sells well to TV it is unlikely to happen, and as Jack Miller is proving, Moto 2 is no longer the best way to Moto GP.

Total votes: 80

always rises to the top no matter what class they rode prior to MotoGP. Moto2 isn't the best solution but at least one factory is not dominating like Aprilia did towards the end of the 250 class.

Total votes: 83

It's 100% Honda CBR600RR engine and overwhelmingly Kalex chassis, which seems to me more 'dominating' than was the case with Aprilia at the end of the 250cc era. Especially as I seem to remember that the last 250cc champion was riding a Honda NSR250.

Besides that, the fact that KTM withdrew their 250 at the end of 2008 was because of the class being terminated at the end of 2009, so they did not want to waste any further investment. Actually, the threat of the class being killed was already being announced for many years, so no wonder that development and factory interest was declining. And then in 2009 the official FIM statement was: 'it was about time 250's are being replaced, because there are only 24 regular starters left on the grid.'
I think that was a pretty good number, considering the above. Also, at that time, their precious and successful MotoGP class had only 17 bikes on the grid. And nowadays they are talking about 24 bikes being the optimum and maximum number for MotoGP. Confusing.

So yes, at the end the majority of the 250cc grid was on Aprilias, but apparently that was the best package teams could actually buy. Expensive? Yes. Who has the best product, can ask the highest price. But at least you were not obliged to ride one. And you could tune your engine to try and make a difference. I feel that is a thing that belongs in GP racing. But maybe I'm just old-fashioned.

Total votes: 97

Going by the sample of comments here the Moto2 class is not doing well. I watch the racing on MotoGP's subscription. If I do look at the Moto2 race I usually fast forward and then close it. Sorry, the CBR600 Aeros don't do anything for me. There is already a 600c Supersport series that runs with WSBK and they have a variety of machines. What do we another one for?

Total votes: 87

Where exactly do you expect the money to come from?
Last time I looked the "current" model GSXR1000 was 6 years old, the CBR1000RR basically 7 years old, the R1 has only JUST been upgraded after 6 years, the ZX10 is 4 years old. The R6 has had only minor upgrades since 2006, nearly 10 years old! These are flagship bikes that used to be upgraded on a 2 year cycle. Take a look at the big picture: the motorcycle industry is still struggling. If the Yamaha MotoGP team have struggled for years to secure a title sponsor what hope do small teams have of finding serious money in the multi millions? You guys are just dreaming.

I also struggle to find the relevance of the 250GP to Moto2 comparison. The strokers are NOT COMING BAAAAAAAACK. No up and coming talent from Moto2 vs 250GP? Seriously, how am I supposed to disregard the fact the most exciting talent in decades did 2 years in Moto2 before dominating (as a rookie) in MotoGP? There may be a lull at the moment, but I could have argued exactly the same "no talent coming through" when Rossi was head and shoulders above the rest and got so bored he changed manufacturers just for the hell of it. Hell, I could argue (tongue in cheek) that the Moto2 field is "obviously" stronger than the MotoGP field, after all the Moto2 field never allowed Marquez (or any rider) to win 10 in a row, and he couldn't win Moto2 at his first attempt.

That engine tuning should be part of GP racing is also a furfy. MotoGP, the highest echelon of our sport has an engine development FREEZE and the engines are sealed to ensure the engine limit rule is not broken. Save for a geek with a laptop and a mechanic changing gears there are no adjustments. So the tuning trackside gig is a thing of the past, that all happened in a surgical suite next to a dyno in a land far far away. I couldn't care less what algorithm the geek used to calculate optimum cam spec's, I just want to know that the best rider on the day won the race.

Jack Miller has absolutely no place in this discussion. Sure he can ride a MotoGP bike but he has been far from a revelation. No way would I take his performance as vindication that Moto3 is all the preparation one needs for MotoGP.

Forget the Moto3/Moto2 machines and concentrate on what the classes are designed to do: prepare and groom riders for the big show, MotoGP. Sad but true: 90% of the fan interest and media coverage is about MotoGP. If there was an issue at Mugello where the Moto2 or Moto3 race had to be cancelled there would be barely a ripple......but try the same thing with the MotoGP race and there would be pandemonium.

So we need to concentrate on cost structures that allow the best riders to get the best grounding possible before they progress. The alternative is an expensive arms race where teams are forced to take on riders who can buy a ride and part fund the team. The teams will have no choice, if MotoGP teams are struggling for cash then the minor classes will be even more cash strapped. So many people here lambast the rider who pays for his ride yet here you are creating the exact situation. Take a look around at the big picture and cold hard financial reality.

So pick the way you want it:
1/ The very best bikes with a field diluted by "financially talented" riders, or
2/ The very best riders on lower tech bikes.
There is only a finite amount of money to go around so you can't have it both ways.

MotoGP can be the all singing, all dancing, technical extravaganza complete with the best riders on the world, the feeder classes are just there to create those riders.

Total votes: 90

All very good points. But as to the engines you have to consider why are they frozen first. The answer is dead simple it is the outrageous cost of trying to gat a naturally aspirated engine to produce that much power. Which begs the question why is forced induction banned? Who knows, human stupidity, vested interests, something like that.

Why is it that in Moto2 there are no electronics and MotoGP is drowning in them. "Oh I nearly crashed because my corner by corner mapping malfunctioned" What the hell is that garbage? IF there is one thing I hate about MotoGP it is the sea of "gamers" that are in the pit garage with their laptops.

Total votes: 75

Now I don't know if it was the switch to the Moto 2 format or if it is down to the riders themselves, but my point was that the riders progressing to Moto GP have been unable to hold a candle to those that came from the 250cc class (acknowledging Marquez Snr's brilliance as the exception). My opinion is that Moto2 is not preparing these guys as well as the 250cc class did, and that IMHO is down to the chassis/engine regulations.

I know we will never go back to 250cc, and despite them being jewels of motorcycle engineering, they have quite rightly been consigned to the history books. What is now apparent, is that the Moto 2 class is not a technical progression from junior to middleweight to premier class, it acts as a bit of a gap year.

I don't want to see the class removed or a reversion to the "good old days", I want to see a challenging, affordable and entertaining 2nd race of the day, that keeps the journeymen in Moto GP a bit on their toes. Currently, Moto2 does none of this for me.

Total votes: 75

So why is Dorna not doing this to moto3 then? If everyone is "struggling" financially why choose the intermediate class and not the beginner class to cut costs? Why let moto3 and motogp have FULL protoype multi-factoried machines and not moto2? If they really wanted to cut costs then why not water down BOTH feeder classes? It's not fair for moto3 teams to have to spend more then the next class up. YES both support classes provide awesome racing, but like I said...there's no structured progression when it comes to the categories.

Total votes: 77

Modus operandi of the MSMA and Dorna is work hard for a few minutes, lose the plot, embrace fatalism and sloth, promise the private equity stooges that you'll stabilize the sport and invent a way to turn $100 into $120 by shuffling financial papers.

Rest assured that none of them remember why they allowed manufacturer competition in Moto3 but not Moto2. None of them can remember what they were hoping to do with the 4-stroke MotoGP revolution in the first place. Dorna has probably already forgotten about Superbike and why they are propping up MotoAmerica.

Total votes: 65

I have this unfortunate feeling you are right.

Total votes: 77

What do you think about that

YAMAHA's rider sit on Honda engine?

Please stop monopoly engine now they should sit on their engine and their technologies(even the other).

Total votes: 49