Marquez and Luthi Issued Formal Warning Over Incidents at Qatar

Marc Marquez and Thomas Luthi have both been issued a formal warning by Race Direction after the Moto2 race at Qatar. Marquez was warned over his pass on Luthi at the start of the last lap, while Luthi received the warning for the hard slap he gave on Marquez' throttle arm on the cooldown lap, when the Swiss rider went to remonstrate with the Spaniard over the pass.

The pass Marquez led to much heated debate after the race. The Spaniard passed Luthi on the way down the front straight, though his rear wheel never cleared Luthi's front wheel, and then pulled across in front of the Interwetten Paddock rider, forcing him wide. Marquez himself believed he was fully ahead of Luthi when he moved across, telling MotoMatters.com "I passed him on the straight, I was completely past him, and when I arrived at the braking point, I braked like I always do, and I saw him pass me on the left." Luthi accused Marquez of an unfair maneuver, leaving him no space, telling German TV that his front wheel had been level with Marquez' footpegs when the Spaniard moved left. As the riders returned to the pits, Luthi sought Marquez out to complain, slapping the Spaniard hard on his right forearm. As Marquez was riding one-handed, waving to the marshalls with his left, the move could potentially have been dangerous.

Race Direction took immediate steps against both riders. "The pass was reviewed immediately, and then reviewed again later in more depth and with different camera angles, and in the context of the whole race," Race Director Mike Webb told MotoMatters.com. "After the race, both riders were spoken with. The decision of Race Direction was that it was a very hard maneuver, on the borderline of acceptable racing. Marquez was warned, the equivalent of a yellow card."

Race Direction also warned Luthi for his reaction on the cooldown lap. "Luthi was also given a warning/yellow card for venting his obvious frustration after the chequered flag," Webb said, adding that both riders had accepted the warnings, and that as far as he was concerned the issue was done with. But the fact that a warning was issued was a clear message to all of the Moto2 riders that their actions would be subject to close scrutiny. Though no formal punishment was handed out, Race Direction were far from happy with the pass. "In this case, it was judged to be close to the limit, but not obviously malicious," Webb told MotoMatters.com.

The Marquez incident exemplifies the problems Race Direction faces in dealing with Moto2. The racing is so close in the class that riders have to push to the limit of what is acceptable to get past each other. Marquez' pass on Luthi was just one of a series of very close and hard passes throughout the race involving several different riders throughout the field. With spec engines, riders have to make the difference by taking risks when passing, instead of using the strengths of a different engine and bike to work in their favor. Added to that is the fact that the field consists of young riders trying to get the results needed to obtain a ride in the MotoGP class, making them err on the side of aggressiveness. That is part of the attraction of the class, and why it has become so popular with the fans, but it also demonstrates the risks involved in the class.

The dilemma facing Race Direction is how to rein in the riders and make the racing safer without ruining the excitement of the races. Their remit is to ensure that the racing is safe, but that involves finding the boundary between close, hard racing and a dangerous move, and the line between the two is not a hard and fast boundary. By issuing a warning to Marquez - Moto2's highest profile rider, with a reputation for hard and sometimes dangerous riding - Race Direction presumably wanted to send a message to all of the Moto2 field about what is and what is not acceptable. How Marquez responds to such a warning will be interesting to see; the fact is that should he pull a similar move again, then there is a very good chance that Race Direction will issue more than just a warning.

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Comments

A bit harsh if they had to go into it with so much detail, replays and camera angles, to assess whether anything happened, the infringement must have been difficult to see. How they expect a rider at the end of the longest straight in motogp and all the speed that comes with it to manage to spot it behind him is beyond me. no guarantee Luthi didn't let off the brakes either... Seen Nicky Hayden do it many times, doesn't want to yeald the place but instead of slowing and changing his line he continues to try and outbreak whilst on the outside, only seen it work once when Rossi did it Jorge can't see it happening again anytime soon..

Total votes: 145

Luthi gets the same reprimand for a slap on Marquez's arm as the latter for potentially badly hurting the former. Marquez's description of the situation has nothing to do with what actually happened and is quite telling regarding the kid's attitude. That has to be a case of "wrong passport"...

Without a doubt Marquez is an incredibly talented rider, but someone will have to make sure he doesn't cross the line when it comes to fair and safe racing. Apparently that someone is not race direction...

Total votes: 164

Saw it happen live, and have not seen a replay since. That said, it was also my impression at the time that the move was at best very hard, at worst dirty and dangerous, but in both cases entirely intentional, i.e. MM knew he was not entirely free of Luthi, and he meant to use his better position to force Luthi wide as a way to consolidate his overtake. As I remember, my main thought at the time was that it spoiled the ending of the race somewhat by removing one of the main guys fighting for the win. I did not see, and have not yet seen, the incident on the cool down lap.

Total votes: 162

I don't think so.

I believe that Marquez didn't do it with bad intentions, but yes, was a too hard moving. And was correct the warning.

Years ago, when Simo pulled out of the track to Bautista, Race Direction did nothing (The victim was Spaniard passport, the other not).
http://www.rtve.es/alacarta/videos/programa/simoncelli-saca-bautista/516...
Blame me for using that example if you want. But it is clear that this was a dirt and deliberate maneuver.

Reprimand for Luthi was too justice. Luthi is a clean rider, but he could have caused an accident.
I understand it was a irritating action by Marquez, but a slap......
Do you remember 1990 in Australia, Spaan to Gresini? (and Gresini deserved it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LV0damZ40Q8

In my opinion, there is a example of what must be punished with withdrawal of license: 1999 Argentina, Melandri to Alzamora. Go to 2min 20 seg. This was criminal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aROClSLb830

Regards
Ramiro

Total votes: 134

Casey got a fine for punching De Puniet in the arm so actually Luthi got off lighter than then world champion. It has nothing to do with passports or who a rider is. In this case, the pass was borderline and the hit from Luthi was not. If they'd been consistent with other decisions, they'd have fined Luthi. Don't make this into some kind of "us and them" argument.

Total votes: 136

> If they'd been consistent with other decisions, they'd have fined Luthi.

I would agree. Though one can understand his anger and frustration at the time -- fastest guy all week, pole sitter, in an instant going from a potential win to not even on the podium -- what he did was wrong, and race direction should have made it clear: that sort of thing will not be tolerated.

Total votes: 145

@danielcroft Good point about Casey's fine, I had similar thoughts and whilst Luthi was the victim in the first instance, you can't just thump somebody like he did - although I'd have done the same - so I think race control got Luthi's punishment wrong also.

Surely Luthi should get €$£¥5000 fine exactly like Casey did? And for almost identical outbursts - understandable as they both were. In fact Luthi's reaction could have been an action replay of Stoner's ...but with less whining and head shaking.

Race control set a precedent at Le Mans (more than one) and at the first opportunity they've ignored them - if they're calling Simoncelli's faultless overtake (IMO) of Dani Pedulant, an illegal manoeuvre (whatever that is) then so was Marquez's on Luthi. Consistency is so important and precedents are good at helping with that apparently.

I always thought motorcycle racing had a good handle on this sort of stuff but the blue ribband championship fat 'controllers' are doing a great impression of the sweet FA. That's the soccerballs association, who used to be flawless in their failure to enforce it's own rules. They're written down and everything. I suppose it is only a game.

Total votes: 132

Marquez never made contact with Luthi yet Luthi made contact with him after the race. Now you tell me again how Marquez was wrong? Personally I think they shouldn't have done anything to either. IT was a hard move but that's racing. If you don't like seeing that then go watch the last few seasons of the MotoGP class then complain about not enough racing.

Total votes: 166

Zarco never touched Terol yet was still stripped of his victory. This was dirty racing but done by a Spanish/Repsol passport holder so all is well. We see first turn draft passes all the time and the procedure is to slide up on the inside then proceed to make the corner from that inside line. Marquez's move to the outside when he was not fully past the other rider was dangerous, pure and simple, and intended to keep Luthi from fighting back later in the lap.

Michael, were you talking directly with Marquez? If so that was a bit of a softball interview. In none of the camera angles I have seen was he fully past Luthi. His comments on the pass are I, I, I. There are other people on the track, it's not just him as much as he feels like it is.

>>By issuing a warning to Marquez - Moto2's highest profile rider, with a reputation for hard and sometimes dangerous riding - Race Direction presumably wanted to send a message to all of the Moto2 field about what is and what is not acceptable.

Unfortunately the official message they sent is that running another rider off the track is acceptable as no penalties were given.

The unofficial message is pretty clear: if you are Spanish you are allowed to ride another rider off the track. If you are not Spanish and you run someone off the track we take your victory away. Just like his practice crash as PI, a 1 min qualifying penalty for ignoring several safety rules and crashing hard into a rider on the cool down lap and making that rider miss the race? A slap on the wrist for flagrant violations for a high profile rider and heavy handed penalties for everyone else. As Dennis Noyes wrote at the time: "A ride-through was considered but rejected. Disqualification, withdrawal of points, and suspension were all considered too severe for a rider leading the series by a single point." Why does his championship standings have anything to do with penalties applied for dangerous riding and causing a crash? Because it is biased.

Chris
http://moto2-usa.blogspot.com/

Total votes: 155

Remembering when Simon crash on Sofuoglu in catalunya last year, when the spanish press wanted to crucificate super glue, sofuglou was happening something wrong in his bike and simon was unable to evade it, but quickly the spanish media announces something like "Sofuoglu wanted to hurt an spanish" "send him off of the series" "is dangerous".

the detail here is than race directions dont want or simple dont care to enforce the rules, why in SBK is so punished when one guy try to attack monza turn in the wrong way, even max biaggi complain about SBK-RD being too harsh but is fine, riders in SBK dont do that. so why here in MotoGP race direction seems to be slow in their jugdment.

certain than at least is something than rd issued a warning to both of them but some of us wanted more than a simple advice but RD didnt considered it, Race direction seems to be too kind with certain people and with others too radical.

now the question is if after the warning people than like to be hostile to others will continue to doing their practices. only time will tell.

Total votes: 136

that he pushed him off to make sure of the win.
Maybe he was looking out of the "bad" eye....

Total votes: 154

@lanhet I agree 100% with your post. You couldn't be more correct in fact (I just made the same point on another site before coming here). You're obviously smart, I like you.

Being serious for no seconds, I really did think of the passport angle but my faith in MotoGP is clinging on with one fingernail, so I don't believe it is a factor really, at least I hope it's not. Tongue firmly back in cheek. I can send you a strip of 4 small photos to prove it :oP

Total votes: 140

The race incident and the cool down incident had disaster written over both riders. Glad they escaped unscathed. Race direction may be a lot older and slower,but that was a smart call. Hope they all heed the advice/warning.

Total votes: 139

>>The race incident and the cool down incident had disaster written over both riders.

Yet there were no penalties and the behavior that started it was deemed borderline but acceptable. If there is no penalty there is no lesson learned. A warning just goes in one ear and out the other.

Chris
http://moto2-usa.blogspot.com/

Total votes: 154

As an ex racer here in Oz, we had an un-written rule that everyone abided by . . you leave the other guy 1ft (30cm) of track to ride on.

Even if he only has his front wheel beside your back wheel, this is what you were expected to do.

The problem with Marquez's overtaking move is IF he'd given Luthi 30cm of track to his left, he still would have made the pass stick so there was no reason to push Luthi onto to ripple strip.

Race direction needs to sort this out because when this used to happen to me or my friends, we would simply go out in the next race and run the offending rider straight off the track . . . If the boys start doing that in moto2 there will be serious injurys for sure.

Total votes: 145

All race long I watched Marquez pull across in front of people very suddenly and very soon after passing them on the straight and it looked all a bit scary. So I felt like I was primed for that last lap pass. What I saw was Marquez push once across on Luthi, pause and then push again running his tyres to the very edge of the white line. That looked very much to me like a quite deliberate move to leave Luthi nowhere to go and force him to run off track. This kind of intimidation is common enough especially in the last lap but it has to stop and be stomped on or people eventually get hurt.

Equally, we can't have people hitting each other even on the slow down lap. And Luthi's move wasn't just a tap on the shoulder to get someone's attention.

So i'd rather that race control took a properly hard line and disqualified both of them. Because just as in the footie, a yellow means almost nothing. They used to be really harsh on this stuff with people like Hopkins, Tamada, Iannone and plenty other instances.

Now never mind the safety angle, what about the entertainment? If Marquez had given Luthi that 30cm of room, they would have exited the corner nose to tail. You'd have to think we would have got a better show as I think there'd have been at least a couple more passing attempts. That last corner would have been interesting as well.

Total votes: 132

I think race direction called it fairly. Saw the incident live and checked it again later. The move was on the border of legitimate. As talented and brilliant as Marc is he has been showing that when things get tense his wits can sometimes be overpowered by aggression. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he wasn't trying to run Luthi off but in the moment his judgement was lacking. Luthi's anger & criticism was correct if his method of getting Marc's attention wasn't. His gestures said it all. Marc, use your head!
All the same it was great to watch. With Sic gone and Rossi maybe facing the coda of his career it's good to see an audacious tactician like Marquez coming along.

Total votes: 146

Looking at it from what we saw, I think this is a fair judgement all round.

We thought on balance MM knew that he was running Luthi off the track, but striking someone on the arm while they are still riding; another accident!

MM does need his little legs slapped however; remember when he ran staight into another rider in qualifying last year? He needs to be shown how to behave.

Kids eh? Don't ya just luv 'em!?

Talented and brave riders though, and a great race!

Total votes: 147

I still don't think MM did any thing wrong. if Luthi said that his front wheel had been level with Marquez' foot pegs a touch of the brakes by Luthi and there would not have been an issue. Luthi should have been fined just as Stoner was hitting some ones hand thats holding on to the bike is a NO NO racing or not.

Total votes: 155

A touch of the brakes in the braking zone at the end of the straights? How do you add an extra touch of brake when you're already hard braking? Marquez "faded" over to Luthi's line when they were hard braking and before Luthi was setting up to trail brake into Turn 1.

Total votes: 155

Why should Luthi HAVE to touch his brake when somebody else is being the dickhead. The simple fact is that you shouldn't do anything that forces another rider to take avoiding action - just like on the road. Try cutting up a lorry and then try convincing him all he had to do was dab his brakes rather than bury you into a motorway bridge pillar.

Total votes: 140

At least is something than race direction taken action, because if they continue to not enforce the rulebook as is should be accidents and tragedies can happen, and is not the first time than marquez causes troubles, or when he ram wilaroit bike last year in australia, so a warning is 100% better than a race through flag.
question is ¿both of them learn something about this?

Is understandable the frustation of luthi but there ways for showing it a la Stoner (punching de puniet) is not the form for it.

Total votes: 130

I watched the race again yesterday because it was so exciting. In the battle between Iannone and Marquez (the two most aggressive riders out there) Marquez had made the same maneuver on Iannone two or three times. Iannone was just wiser than Luthi and did exactly what Luthi should have done, brake earlier, dive up the inside, and re-take the position. I feel like race direction really has no place to issue warnings unless the moves are deliberately malicious. If you have to watch the move over and over again obviously it wasn't deliberately malicious. This is a tough class and this is a dangerous sport but these guys are the best in the world and hard racing is what is going to allow the cream to rise to the top in a crop full of cream. I don't like reckless riding but I do appreciate hard but clean riding. This mistake was on Luthi.

Total votes: 149

This has turned into a hatefest in here, but I have wondered just where Luthi thought he was going to go if Marquez had just stayed in a straingt line. Luthi is clearly on the wrong side of Marquez to tip into the corner, and that had nothing to do with anyone but Luthi. Iannone had to have a very larger grin on his face when he saw that Luthi was on the wrong side. Because of that brain blank on Luthi, Marquez, Iannone and Pol went through. As far as Marquez moving over, he knew Luthi was behind him, but also knew if he was going to attack, it had to come from the corner side. And oh by the way, there are not any mirrors to look back with in racing.

Mr. David...if this hate fest keep going in here, you might well get rated badly with other sites.

Good day.

Total votes: 140

Is that it is impossible to monitor the site 24 hours a day. I do what I can, but there are a few subjects that make it impossible to allow comments without it degenerating. I am doing what I can, but falling short. Fortunately, most of the commenters are restrained, but not always. 

Total votes: 142

Anyone who judges a websites quality based on its public comments section is clearly demonstrating poor judgement.

Total votes: 142

This is not a hate fest, this is a debate. Yes, people have some strong opinions, but it's not a hate fest.

Total votes: 135

It would seem Mr Spoke, that the harshest and most self-opinionated comments are indeed yours. I come here for the thoughtful and considered analysis provided by most contributors and David. Partisan insults such as "brain blank" belong elsewhere.

Total votes: 119

¿Hate fest?, ¿Why do you think that?, just because some fans of motorcycle racing including me are questioning about marquez more evident lack of focus under pressure in certain circumstances tends to make him do mistakes, mistakes like Phillip island, mistake likes the past race at qatar this year, so you consider than someone than dont share your idea or a group of persons arguing with you a group of haters. nahhhhh.

The guy dont need to probe nothing, what he need is to slow down his impulses. thats is all.

Total votes: 141

As soon as Marquez pulled up the inside of Luthi to draft, which was very early on in the straight, Luthi had no option but to stay the course, and hope to outbrake him, turn in together, or let Marquez have the advantage. That should have been his choice but sadly, MM left him no options by pulling way over, twice, and forcing Luthi onto the far end of the shoulder.

No, there are no mirrors in racing, you don't need them when someone is alongside of you.

Total votes: 147

and in racing sometimes u have to be aggressive to make a pass, that is what we all like about Moto2...MM did nothing wrong, Luthi should have gave up the spot instead of trying to lean on MM. On the other hand, Luthi deliberately struck MM on the arm intending to do harm and he should be punished. There is no 1ft rule, this GP racing not club racing.

Total votes: 147

MM's move reminded me of Jenson Button knocking Hamilton off the track at Canada GP last year. Hamilton (aka Luthi) would have been wiser to back out of it a little and continue the fight, but instead decided to squeeze her in there and ended up punted off the track.

Button (aka MM) didn't receive a penalty at the time but several other drivers employed the same dirty tactics later which necessitated a rule change to leave at least 1 car (aka bike) width to the edge of the track in a braking zone.

Bottom line, it's a premeditated move designed to stay in front and requires a clarification of the rules to stop it. IMO MM deserves a penalty because he knew exactly what he was doing...but there is no clear rule against it.

Total votes: 144

that MM's move was hard but good is the same attitude that in my opinion got a young Italian Killed last year. Racing hard is all good and well, but you MUST be a gentleman about it! That was a bogus move by Marquez, and Luthi had every right to be steaming mad. Keep encouraging him to race like that because he's your rider and you are selfish fans, I promise you it will end in tears, I just hope and pray that he takes no one with him, just as I did with poor ole Simo.........

Total votes: 147

Why do people keep saying Simo's aggression/hard racing led to his death? Did you see the crash? He slid out on cold tyres, tried to hold it, the tyres caught and sent him back onto the racing line. Nothing to do with being aggressive and everything to do with bad luck. He happened to be facing back onto the racing line when the tyres caught, and happened to have some riders close behind. Wrong place, wrong time. Yes, he made some hard moves much like Marquez is doing, but his death was not due to that.

Total votes: 148

Did not cause Marco's wreck. I am trying to make a point here, and I am using Marco to do it, because it is feasible that Marco's recklessness DID cause his wreck. All his supporters wanted to see him do well especially in light of Rossi's struggles, and they make all kinds of concessions for his behavior on track. I am saying that it is a dangerous path to condone these actions, because it does affect riders. If you keep telling someone it's ok, they will eventually beleive it.

If Marco's coming troubles were not seen by you or anyone else, they are blind, foolish, and even selfish. I want people to wake up, stop condoning this reckless behavior, and the time to nip it in the bud is in the lower classes. These guys are just kids, and they need to learn there are limits before they reach the premier class. I'm pretty ticked about Marco, I think he was mishandled and misled, and I think that played a big part in his death. I think he thought he was invincible, and I partially blame that on the media and all the people condoning his recklessness. As much as he wrecked, it was only a matter of time, and we did indeed lose a huge shining star. We need to be more responsible as a society, instead of saying oh, it's just racing. BS.

I only registered to say this, because what we, the fans think and say, does have an impact, it can be devastating, it can be elating. Putting your wants before what is right has it's consequences.

Total votes: 155

I didn't say Marco did no wrong, I said that specific incident was not due to an excess of aggression. Many riders crashed in the first few laps, that's why Bridgestone changed the tyres for this year. Most riders will try to hold a slide. This was just another racing incident, but with sickening consequences.

I have commented before on the curious phenomenon that people who criticised Marco's actions before Sepang'11 suddenly defended them as just hard racing after Sepang. To me, he did let his aggression get out of hand too often without considering the consequences. There were signs that he may have changed for the better after the incident with Pedrosa, but we'll never know for sure. I have seen a lot of parallels between Marco and Marc, and hope MM reigns it in. The guy's going to be brilliant to watch in the next few years. All he needs to be great is to think a little further ahead, and Race Direction can make him do that with a bit more firmness.

Thanks for the "blind, foolish, and even selfish" comment, by the way. Nice.

Total votes: 130

Not trying to insult, but really we need to stop encouraging needless agression like MM displayed Sunday. The kid does'nt need to use these tactics. I know it's cutthroat, but maintaining your integrity should still be paramount.

And I still think the specific incident with Marco was born out of unfounded confidence and aggression (recklessness). He had just tasted the podium and wanted more. Was it bad luck? Absolutely. Still we make a bit of our own luck.........I'll just agree to disagree, I'm glad to see you beleive MM and his like need to be reined in a bit. It might actually help the spectacle a bit as well, as promoting clean racing encourages good battles on the track, as when lines can be maintained, and your competitors can be trusted, you can race wthout worry or surprise.

Total votes: 131

People defending MM seem to be saying that this is GP racing and that riders have to be agressive and ride to the limit. But then they say that luthi should have backed off or braked earlier and let MM pass.

Total votes: 148

Luhti was never going to go around the outside of Marquez, so what was he hoping to do? If Luhti had backed off, he still would've had a chance of a victory.

Total votes: 130

I definitely agree that if you have an issue with what happened on the track then save it for when you get back to the paddock...bad move on Luthio's part.
Even worse is the move by Marquez, for all those that believe he didn't know where he was in relation to Luthi...get real, these guys know where everyone is all the time. The fact of the matter is that Marquez is talented but prefers playing head games to real racing...what is with sitting up halfway down the straight then tucking in back behind...a real champion goes for the lead and strives to lead every lap. And, when necessary a champion will fight hard and clean through a last lap battle. What Marquez did was linger behind and punt the other guy off the track on the last lap, not leaving Luthi any time to recover...some may call that "Strategic Racing" but definitely not the marque of a champion.

At the end of the day, Luthi should have received a fine for loosing his cool on the track after the race and Marquez should have been penalized a few seconds in the race.

Finally, lets not talk about "heat of the moment" and "passionate racing", these guys are professionals and we need to hold them to a higher standard...I mean seriously, my 7 year old sometimes looses control when playing baseball or football but I expect more from professionals like Luthi and Marquez.

Total votes: 143

You have never raced before. Racing is tactical and it is much more difficult to lead than it is to follow, especially on tracks with long straights. As for knowing where everyone is, have you ever seen the guys look behind them? The reason they do that is because the helmet creates a large blind spot and the only way you can tell where people are is by either watching your pit board or by turning around to see, thus breaking your concentration. You can hear when someone is behind you but you still have know clue exactly where that person is at. When you make a high speed pass you are not thinking about where the other person is, you are solely focused on making the move stick without taking yourself out and taking out the person you are passing. Sorry man by racing motorcycles is not like a sunday drive along the countryside where you can turn up the music, recline the seat, and check your mirrors every two minutes. And yes, head games are a HUGE part of racing.

Total votes: 143

>>it is much more difficult to lead than it is to follow

That's not true at all. Some rider like leading, some like stalking. Its personal preference.

>>When you make a high speed pass you are not thinking about where the other person is, you are solely focused on making the move stick without taking yourself out and taking out the person you are passing.

So you are not concerned with where the other person is but you are concerned about not taking yourself or them out? How do you do that? I would think by knowing where the other person is so you don't run into them. How do you think it is done?

T1 draft passes are near universally done as follows:

-draft up to and partially past lead rider
-brake very late
-try very hard to make the turn from your inside line
-if you do make the turn you are in the lead and the other rider has to run a bit wide yet still remain on the track and is able to try to retake the lead
-if you don't make the turn you run wide on the corner exit and the other rider tucks under your line and retakes the lead, leaving you to try it again at another corner

This is the way to do it because it leaves an out for both riders if the pass is successful or not.

When Marquez moved back to the outside under max braking he left nowhere for Luthi to go except off the track. There was no need to move outside. He had the slight lead and the inside line. Luthi could not brake harder, if you look at the video you can see his forks are bottomed and the front fender is touching the fairing upper. He could not move to the inside of the track because Marquez's bike was in the way. He can't slow a bit to give room to move inside because as stated above he is at max braking. If he stayed where he was there would be an accident. Due to Marquez's movement, not Luthi's.

I like racing and agree it is not ballet or ballroom dancing. But I also strongly believe that we should not give riders license to run others off the track. Racing is dangerous enough without worrying about riders who have no regard for others.

Chris
http://moto2-usa.blogspot.com/

Total votes: 154

"So you are not concerned with where the other person is but you are concerned about not taking yourself or them out? How do you do that? I would think by knowing where the other person is so you don't run into them. How do you think it is done?"

When I make a pass, normally I have worked my butt off to set it up and when I'm making the actual maneuver I am fully committed to making the maneuver. Lets say the pass happens to be on the brakes. If the pass is up the inside, then my focus is on out-braking the person on the outside of me and walking that fine line of trail braking deep enough into the corner without tucking the front. If I tuck the front then I'm going to crash and my bike and body will likely slide and crash into the person that is on the outside of me, causing them to crash as well. The faster your opponent is the harder the pass is going to be. Luthi and Marc were in a balls out braking contest and Marc already had the inside line before hitting the brakes. Right then Luthi should have checked up and fell in line behind Marc, or do what Iannone had done all night and check up and take the tighter inside line and re-pass Marc. It was a hard maneuver, Luthi fully expected to win the race from the beginning of the weekend (that's why he was so angry) and he didn't want to let up. So at that moment Marc's race craft was better than Luthi and Marc won.

Total votes: 131

"Right then Luthi should have checked up and fell in line behind Marc"... That's Chris's point... he was already full on the brakes next to MM. How do you check up if you are already braking to the max next to another rider?

Luthi was maintaining his line at the edge of the track at full brake power, and MM moved into Luthi's line forcing him off the track. MM already had the inside line therefore the corner, so there was no reason to move over. That's why he got a warning.

Total votes: 131

re: "and Marc already had the inside line before hitting the brakes."

if he was on the inside line, then there should've been no need to turn left when the racetrack obviously goes clockwise.

Total votes: 129

How it was done was totally unnecessary. Marquez played dirty and it could have ended in tears (for both of them). But Luthi reacted and saved them both from disaster. Lost all respect for MM when I saw that move.

Total votes: 132

....I don't see what the fuzz is all about, I was kind of expecting that being the last lap, Moto2 it's cut throat racing , Luthi should have known Marquez was there and indeed running off the track was his own mistake, he should have conceded the position and responded right away on the inside but looks to me he lost his coolness or tried to outbrake MM, which was impossible.If race direction starts punishing people for making racing worthy, that ain't helping.

Had it been Rossi or Stoner the headlines would be very different, i.e. "genius pass on the last lap"

Total votes: 134

etiquette is that you never willfully pull across another rider's line. ya just don't do it... EVER...!!! i know 'cause i used to do that crap, and then i got my ass chewed. it's the same argument i referenced back during the simo/pedro incident last year at lemans. and just like i mentioned ad-nauseum back then regarding simo, it's not just for luthi's safety, but for MARQUEZ'S safety as well...!!! they were going into a right hander on what is probably the widest circuit in the series (ie. qatar). there's no basis for ever turning LEFT into T1 on a modern track purposefully designed to accomodate vehicles the scale of F1.

Total votes: 138

willfully pull across another rider's line. "

It makes you wonder WTF they talk about at riders briefings these days.............I'd hope they still have those, especially with kids racing. I guess growing up racing on circuits without kerbs, railway crossings, lamp posts and walls gives them a sense of immortality..............

Total votes: 136

That's what he said to Luthi after the race (it's on motogp.com), as an excuse for pushing him to the edge. From the video one can see that Marquez starts leaning towards Luthi while still on the gas and the rear looks under control. I think it was a very hard pass (borderline legal as others have put it), but I'm more annoyed by this lame excuse to Luthi. Yes, that was immediately after the race. Yes, there were cameras all over them, but still... He has to start respecting his opponents at some point, hopefully from Jerez onwards.

Total votes: 139

This was my post on BSN, their article refers to Luthi slapping Marquez and race control treated both offences the same way - hence my opening line. The rest you'll have to misinterpret on your own ;o)

------- The Madness of Magic Marc Marquez --------

So a slap on the arm is equal to being shoved off the circuit at 170mph is it?

Seriously, Mike Webb, you need to have a word with yourself before somebody else gets killed having received a 'slap on the arm'.

The whole thing stinks - I tell you what, if Simoncelli (or Josh Brookes in BSB) had done it, he'd have been disqualified. I hate stuff like this, it's all political bullsh*t. Marquez should have at least had a time penalty, placing him in 16th spot. Personally I'd have chucked him out the race - and I'm a fan, although that support took a big hit on Sunday. RC (race control) should have made a clear point to everyone - not least because the lad has form for this kind of unneccessary stupidity. The guy is supremely talented with all the skill and potential to be an all time great, but he needs to make it that far first. I'm hoping that this is just some teen immaturity creeping in and he'll grow out of it without hurting himself and especially nobody else. He is just 19 years young (as of Feb), and living in a unique world, growing up under a spotlight where every mistake is scrutinised by the media and race fans, under pressure from mega money sponsors and the mighty H, and where death is a very real risk every time you roll out of pitlane. That can do weird things to people, I'm not making excuses at all, Marc can say what he likes about being sure he'd passed Thom - he has to be lying, I'm damn sure I'd know, you do, unless you're a total muppet in which case you're not going to spend 20 years at the sharp end of motorcycle GP racing and you probably drive a van ...with dented rear corners. Thing is, Marquez can't really turn around and say "Yeah I was trying to impede Luthi so that it would make the job of winning a bit easier" as if having only Andrea Iannone up your chuff is easier without a Thom Luhti shaped cushion in between you.

Race control have let everybody bar Marquez down.. Marquez's effort put Simoncelli's Le Mans 'illegal manoeuvre' to shame. Sic didn't touch Ped, weighed more, braked later, made the apex all fully in control - Ped was just being an irritant, weighs half that of Sic, started braking waaay sooner yet couldn't slow down enough, was unable to control his machine and ended up running into the back of Sic and it was all Sic's fault - it stank, 1/10th second longer and Ped would have missed Sic who would have been 2nd and I'm not sure Ped would have made the turn anyway. Still he has all that to live with and back to the point, Marquez needs to think hard about the consequences of his actions. Jesus, the last time he rode he took a bang on the head that could have lost him his sight, not to mention the loss of Simoncelli and only the weekend before that he'd put Williaeott in hospital. I can't get my head around his thinking in Qatar, it's not chess or knitting as several people have pointed out but that's exactly the point, it's so incredibly dangerous without having loose cannons pulling crazy stunts at 175mph. Had Luthi jumped off like Pedrosa did at Le Mans, maybe race control would have seen things differently - despite the fact that it was the same move regardless of whether Luthi stayed upright or not.

Two easy decisions, both got massively wrong.

fin.

Total votes: 147

Domski23 - Couldn't agree more with your comments except you missed the 125cc Zarco incident last year.
An outfoxed Terol runs off the track and in attempting to rejoin it before the grass verge trys to occupy the same bit of tarmac as Zarco. Zarco did absolutely nothing wrong, in defending his position - what was he supposed to do...pull across and let him by. Instead he is penalised, not to 2nd..3rd? but 4th!! If the roles had been reversed I have no doubt it would have been interpreted as a hard defend with the win standing.
This sort of bias, the dirty riding of some riders and the fact that Moto2 is not a true control class has finally switched me off watching it in the future.
Mark my words, a certain diminutive Spanish rider will win the Moto2 championship in 2012 and it will not be because he is the best rider. It will be because he has massive Spanish financial and political backing and a very useful weight advantage.

Total votes: 123