Spanish Media Accusing Rossi Of Jump Start At Motegi

It will come as no surprise that Valentino Rossi's brutal entanglement with Jorge Lorenzo during the last couple of laps of the Japanese MotoGP Grand Prix at Motegi did not go down well in Spain. With Spain on the verge of only their second World Championship in premier class motorcycle racing, and after a whole year of extraordinary sporting achievement for Spain, race fans on the Iberian peninsula are getting more protective than usual of the MotoGP stars, and so Rossi's manhandling of Lorenzo was not very well received. With the passes being clearly legal - though arguments continue to rage over the wisdom of such moves - the media in Spain has turned its attention elsewhere.

Spanish TV broadcaster TVE is now claiming that Valentino Rossi made a jump start prior to the MotoGP race at Motegi, and that his failure to be penalized was a failure by Race Direction. The video on the TVE website (only accessible in Spain, readers outside of Spain with a MotoGP.com subscription can will have to watch the full race video on MotoGP.com at around the 21:26 minute mark) appears to show Rossi creeping forward a fraction of a second before the red lights went out, in breach of section 1.18 subsection 14) of the FIM Grand Prix regulations, which state the following:

Any rider who anticipates the start will be required to carry out the ride through described under article 1.19.

Anticipation of the start is defined by the motorcycle moving forward when the red lights are on.

Close examination of the video does appear to confirm that Rossi rolled forward a fraction at the start of the race, though any movement is minimal. Race Direction - who review the start of every race - either did not spot the movement, or did not judge it to be an infringement of the rules. Rossi was not penalized, and did not have to perform a ride through.

If Rossi moved - which he probably did, fractionally - the advantage he gained was at best marginal, and at worst non-existent, so why all the fuss? The answer is simple: If Rossi had been given a ride through - a decision Race Direction have to take within four laps of the start - the Italian would have lost between 20 and 30 seconds coming into the pits, riding along pit lane at the maximum speed limit of 60 km/h, and then back out onto the track. Upon completing the ride through, Rossi would have rejoined the race either at the back, or very close to it. The last-lap dust-up between himself and Lorenzo would never have happened, and Lorenzo would have been back on the podium, and 3 points closer to clinching his first MotoGP championship, the first one for Spain since Alex Criville in 1999.

The Spanish media's anger at the lack of a ride through runs deeper: The Spanish contingent in the MotoGP paddock has long felt that Valentino Rossi is given preferential treatment by Race Direction, under pressure from Dorna (ironically, a Spanish company). Rossi is the series' main meal ticket, and there have been a number of incidents where there has been the suspicion that Rossi has gone unpunished because to do so would have been hugely unpopular with the fans. Most of all, the Spanish media (and many Spanish fans) have never forgiven Rossi for the pass he pulled at Jerez in 2005, when he dived up the inside of Sete Gibernau in the final corner, just as Gibernau tried to close the door on him. The pair came together and Gibernau ran wide, leaving Rossi to win the race and setting the tone for the championship. Gibernau was never a threat for the championship again, and the Spanish media has never gotten over that. With Lorenzo so close to becoming champion, and showing the potential to win several more, the prospect of losing that is too much for the Spanish to bear.

 

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Comments

Well im spansih and if that millisecond would have been cause for ride through, i would think it was totally unfair.

Not all spanish motorcycling fans are Lorenzo fanboys. Fortunately. Yesterday s scrap was hard but fair.

James Toseland got (I guess) 2 penalties for jumpstart last year. On neither start he gained anything, still he had to perform the ride throughs.

So it's about equality, every rider should be treated the same way by the race direction.

Whether there is a point in blaming Rossi and the race direction after the race is another story ...

Personally I'd have been dissapointed when Rossi would have been given a penalty, not because I'm a Rossi fan, but because the clash with Lorenzo would have gone lost.

Another thing that this battle is giving us - Lorenzo shows nerves. Don't get me wrong, I do like Jorge, but things do play into his hands so easily that I'm happy to see any challenges for him so he also has some work to do for the title.

At Brno, Lorenzo jumped the start just as Rossi did at Motegi. There was no penalty for Jorge so no penalty for Valentino is only fair. You can see the vid here:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xeglon_bouge-ou-pas_auto

Rossi also passed under yellow without penalty in 2006. The top riders who are fighting for the championship are going to get more wiggle room as it's better for the series overall to have a tight points chase. Not that I agree with it...but that's just how it is.

I noticed Lorenzo's jump start in Brno and commented, but nobody else seemed to catch it. I found that a bit surprising, since MM members are usually pretty sharp.
http://motomatters.com/results/2010/08/15/2010_brno_motogp_race_result_i...

Rules need to be applied equally for all. But it would have been a shame if we'd been deprived of the battle of the teammates in Motegi.

I thought that all kinds of fancy electronics were used to catch these things in MotoGP and F1. But that and the trackside observers didn't do their job when Massa started half a car length ahead of his grid spot!

I'm not sure that equality should be about misery for everyone. By that logic, the next rider to be lying unconscious on the race track should not be protected with a red flag.

The start rule is terrible. The FIM won't/can't/don't-know-how-to fix it so they just police it selectively. What else is new? There are no rules for Spaniards in the first turn of a home Grand Prix either.

Blindly executing a bad rule might do more harm than good. So yes, I also think that the jump start rule should be altered/improved.

But I think we would have this "has Rossi jump started?" discussion anyway, even with a better rule. Whenever there is bad blood involved in a conflict, people tend to start using rules "to the letter of the law" as scatterbrained wrote. Same situation with contracts, they only really get important when things go wrong.

But speaking about "letter of the law", I'm somehow getting the feeling that Rossi won't be testing the Ducati this year ...

Why raise a stink when nothing can be done about it? Oh yeah, chest puffing and bluster. I forgot.
Yesterday's race was definitely tough, but as I saw it, Jorge gave as good as he got. Rossi just prevailed in the end.
Fantastic stuff.

I live in Spain so I'm "lucky" enough to get a large dose of the Spanish sporting media (at least we get all practices and races live on tv). Keep in mind that the journalist that hosts the TVE broadcast is the same person that wrote Jorge Lorenzo's book. That simple fact goes a long way toward explaining most of what he says on the air. If it weren't for Dennis Noyes, I'd skip the live races and watch them later on Eurosport.

Yesterday's passes were tough, but nothing we haven't seen before. As for the pass in the tunnel, watch it in slo-mo and you'll see what JL99's bike wheelied and then turned in sharply, taking the space that VR46 had planned on using. This, as much as anything, caused the contact.

How about those moves @ Jerez earlier this year? Lorenzo was laying on Pedrosa's bike in those corners!

I think we have quickly forgotten was racing is all about.

Isn't the person you want to beat the most the person who is on the same bike?

They are one each other the major competitor, not to mention the wall. That's another reason also why they are parting.

When you have two contender for the WC there is no "team" anymore. Don't know your age ... but do you remember Senna - Prost both in McLaren?

Or Dani with Nicky (Dani helped him when he had to make up for the crash before)

It is clear that he moved foward a little bit before the lights were tuned off. Does he deserve the penalty? I do not think so, he moved just a little. Does anyone compare it with Iannone`s jump start? Did he move more than Rossi?

Rossi didn't gain any advantage, in fact I think he lost because Lorenzo took his spot through those first corners.

I dont live in Spain But I'm an avid Lorenzo fan. The point is he did move(Rossi) and should have been made to ride through. Read David's last par. above and we then understand why he gets away with what he does. Rossi is not the be all end all of MotoGp. IMHO

in fact Rossi IS the be all and end all of MotoGP.

Without Rossi, MotoGP probably would have never survived the recent economic downturn and Lorenzo would probably be riding for $200K a year in WorldSBK

You do know that their was GP racing long before Rossi and long before WSBK, right? Usually the only people to make statements like that are people who just started watching GPs in the Rossi years.

As long as the manufactures (ie Honda and Yamaha) wish MotoGP will be around. If WSBK can survive with a bunch of private and independent teams MotoGP will be around with factory teams.

Last I check, when Rossi was out because on injury the races were still held and the Earth didn't fall off it's axis.

i definitely have to agree that Rossi is not the end all but you also have to admit that tv audience numbers have swelled exponentially since his emergence (for whatever reason) and shrunk thus year during rounds he did not race at.

the same was true for track attendance. race fans have to face it: Rossi brought fans to the sport who would have never bothered watching gp racing. you may think what you want of those fans but they brought a lot more $$$s with them then ever before. capitalism relies on growth and motorcycle racing is a capitalist subculture.

I'm not worried tho. there's a crapload of awesome racers who have entered the mix in the last 2-3 years. we will survive (:

'We' whine that Moto GP is getting BORING! No passing . . . a single line parade! We FINALLY get some RACING and now we have 'fans'(?) whining, b***hing, whining about the passing! I guess some of you want the passing to be 'pristine', OR someone to move over and give the other 'racer' the position! I've watched the race THREE times, including ALL the Rossi/JL passing in SLO-MO! There was NOTHING wrong w/the racing! It was hard fought, the way it SHOULD BE AT THIS LEVEL OF RACING! For the RECORD . . . I'm a Rossi/JL/Stoner/Spies/etc FAN! I'm a RACE FAN and want to see hard fought/hammer & tong racing!

I totally agree with you that MotoGP fans love tight battles for positions.

But I like to see fairness and respekt when riders fight for a position. Hell it's a sport, not a shooting war. I like to see racers shake hands after the race and *mean* it, the battle should in the end be fun for both, the winner and the loser.

My take on this Rossi vs Lorenzo battle: first touch in the tunnel - Vale gave Jorge some space, but Lorenzo got into Rossi because of the wheely and probably perceived it as beeing pushed to the outline. Probably furious Lorenzo dived in on the inside of the next corner, pressing Rossi even slightly off track on corner exit. Now Rossi got enraged and barged past Jorge at the next corner.

For me, both got their share of unfairness. I didn't like the bitterness of this fight, but before you don't get any overtaking at all ...

Most of the Spanish fans I know are not bothered at all by any of this, Spaniard or not. As someone pointed out above, TVE's main presenter shows some obvious bias and is extremely Spaniard-focused which influences a large part of the broadcast. It's not exactly journalism what they do (with the exception of Noyes), instigating some big Spain vs. the world stuff however seems to be it fairly often. But this doesn't necessarily represent the opinion of the actual fans, especially when it comes to Rossi who has a huge fanbase in Spain.

And on the other hand people like Simoncelli more than once complained how the Spaniards are allegedly favoured by race administration. Just like in everyday life, everyone sees himself as the victim of unfair treatment. The truth lies probably somewhere in the middle.

I don't think the start line 'creep' nor the fairing bashing warranted any sort of penalty.Having said that,I firmly believe that in Rossi's case, 'some rider's are more equal than others', does apply.

If there was no advantage gained then no penalty should be assesed - ever, on any kind of infraction.

Great MotoGP race (finally). Congrats to Casey. Great racing at the end by Vale and Jorge - just what we've been hoping for all season and it certainly didn't dissapoint. I hope that continues for the remaining races!

Finally, great ride by my man Spies. Next time bro get a better grid popsition and you won't have to worry about someone braking too early (just pulling your chain - big smile).

Lots of comments on the fairing bashing. This topic is about Rossi moving at the start, not his racing moves.
Yes, Rossi did move. I guess this means three things:
1. rules are rules so Rossi should have gotten a penalty
2. the penalty is not given, the race is run and that's it
2. this 'mistake' meant viewers were treated to a great spectacle

If he moved than he should have been penalized - there is no "well, he didn't gain an advantage" or "crime doesn't fit the punishment". If the rules state that if you jump the start than you are accessed a ride through penalty than the rules are the rules and should be applied to everyone.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if race control ignored Rossi jumping the start.

i agree with the "doesn't matter if he gained an advantage" part. in the past riders (JT comes to mind) have gotten penalized for less when the little roll was actually a disadvantage because he stopped the creep forward and then the lights went out and his rhythm for the start was off.

did they "look the other way" on purpose or did race direction simply miss it? i doubt we'll get a satisfactory explanation.

First off, when I watched the race on the BBC, I did notice something at the start. I did wonder if Rossi would get a ride through for the first several laps, but there was no announcement of one, or an enquiry. After the race, which I recorded, I went back and did a frame-by-frame replay and yes, there did seem to be a tiny bit of movement.

And here's what I concluded, not based on any inside knowledge or consipacy theories but trying to apply some logic:

It cannot be possilbe for a human to watch every single bike on the grid right at the point the lights go out. Well, yes it is possible, but surely you would need a lot of people dedicated to the task, and even more for the size of the Moto2 field. So I assumed, as I say through no inside knowledge, that detecting movement of any rider down the grid must be done by electronics or instrumentation of some kind, like RFID. My conclusion was therefore that if VR moved, it was not enough to trigger the sensing system and so it did not register as a jump start and therefore wasn't one.

Of course, that's based on assumptions and I might be talking out of my backside, but doubtless someone in the know might be able to clarify.

The rules are clear, if you creep foward before the lights you get a ride through. I noticed Rossi's creep too and was surprised-not surprised he didn't got pulled over, next time they should put the bikes over a sensor so that anyone activating the sensor pad before the lights will be automatically penalized by a fair, un-biased electronic gadget.

The rules state that you cannot move once the lights are on not before they come on. I haven't been able to check the video myself to see if the movement was before or after the lights came on.

Iannone's bike did move more, but he didn't win any advantage out of this, actually I think I remember he even lost a bit of time doing this.
But he has been blamed according to the rules and lost the race because of the ride-through.
So it's not about gaining an advantage or not, it's about fairness, the rules being the same for every rider.

...should have been penalized.

Assuming race direction saw it.

And how could they not? The commentators on the coverage I watched mentioned immediately after the start that Rossi had begun to move forward early. So it was obvious on TV.

It's (seemingly, but I am no rules expert) irrelevant whether he obtained an advantage that way or not, or whether not penalizing him made possible his later podium fight with Lorenzo.

Enforcing such a rule cannot come down to some judgment call: advantage or no advantage.

This would have been a great topic for discussion as I watched the race live. The announcers failed to mention it, whether they missed it or not, and then we got a great show out of it. Had Lorenzo beat Rossi in the end, would we be hearing about it still? I doubt it would be this big of an issue. Does it matter, in the greater scheme of things? NO, so I will let it die like so many other dead topics. Rossi gained no advantage, and indeed it hurt his start. Did he break a rule, yes. Should he forfeit his trophy and points, I don't think so.

Does it matter? NO. Waiting for Sepang!

Is it possible that MotoGp have learned form the AMA's mistakes? Last year the AMA (DMG) attempted to enforce the jump start rule "to the letter of the law". It was ridiculous. It often ruined races and demoralized the riders, not to mention the angered fans. For '10 the DMG decided to go the way of WSBK and use a more humanistic way of making a determination: i.e., did the rider gain advantage (advantage being seen as carrying momentum into the start), did the rider attempt to self correct the situation, was it legitimate movement or was it mechanical (the bike jumping slightly when put in gear)? Needless to say the racing this year was much better and there were several situations that would have been called "jump starts" last year that were allowed this year due to the riders catching and correcting the situation themselves. As far as Rossi goes it looks like he started rolling but it's hard to say if he caught himself in time or not without seeing the slow motion. At least he was still in his box when the lights went out and it looks like everyone the others got a better start than him. Either way I think I'd prefer to see a good race than one that is decided by technicalities and pit lane strategies (F1 anyone).

On thing I noticed is that the 2 laps of dicing between Rossi and Lorenzo provided just about the only entertainment of the entire race. I can't believe that

a) Lorenzo was silly enough to try and pass Rossi given what he has at stake and
b) Dumb enough to cry about it afterwards which only plays into Rossi's head games

Rossi has now made it all about him again when in fact he has been a bit player since his return

Smart guy

Ducati News, Reviews and Opinion ducatinewstoday.com or Tweet me @ducatinewstoday

Not taking issue with your statement that the Rossie / Lorenzo final two laps provided just about the only entertainment of the entire race, but I am sure Ben Spies charge from the back of the grid, after he had run off, must surely have been fairly entertaining - had we been shown it! Which underlines the point that our perception of the entertainment value and excitement of any race and our enjoyment of it, is directly impacted by the standard of coverage and what is actually shown on screen. Too often, poor coverage = poor race, regardless of what is actually happening on track further down the order.

Does anyone know if these guys were complaining at Laguna in 2008 when Rossi cut the corkscrew but held the advantage? It was Stoner who may have been wronged on that day. Are these media people being consistent or are they having a whinge b/c the need podiums to sell papers (or the modern digital equivalent).

I'm not a Rossi fan, and I do agree in principle that he has run of the mill with very few rules placed upon him, but I feel that the biggest problem is that the competition never respond (on track) or up their game. Sete never ran Rossi off track in response to Jerez 2005 (he had plenty of chances especially at Mugello 2006). Stoner has never cut a corner and then held the advantage or brake checked Rossi in the the final turn at Laguna. It's hard to prove that Dorna play favorites when the other front-running competitors rarely take their gloves off.

Max did try to put Valentino in the weeds at one of the most dangerous GP circuits on earth. IIRC, Max did not get suspended or DQ'ed. If people respond, Dorna might let it go.

I understand your point, but IMO the deeper concept in your argument is wrong: 1 racer leaves the field of sportmenship and plays unfair, or at least very close to unfair. To resolve this the others should stop behaving like sportsmen too.

No question, the drama that would ensue would keep Clinica Mobile busy and the money greedy media happy.
But honestly, would you like to see battles on the track filled with hatred?

I heard that Rossi personally went up to the race direction and slipped them 600,000yen each because he knew that the only way he was going to beat George was by jumping the start.

He also caused the financial markets to crash and he fathered Mussolini.

on a more serious note
Do these commentators watch 125 and moto2? maybe WSBK or WSS? two laps of a very minor skirmish is nothing

That's like a warmup lap for Simo...

If Lorenzo didn't like the dicing, why was he doing it?

Oh thats right, its called racing. He didnt mind it in the 250s, but now he has enough profile that he can complain and get more media airtime in Spain.

Back in the Beattie Lucky Strike Suzuki days, the Suzuki team used to have a quote plastered on one of their team boxes, from George Orwell - Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence: in other words it is war minus the shooting.

How times have changed.

oh yeah Rossi and JB also helped Casey get his bike in order so its ready for Rossi next year...

I don't think it was that bad really, I don't know how the start is made in motogp but with cars you sometimes get that when you switch the first gear in, or if you try to get the clutch to the point where it starts to grab.

He stayed well behind his grid line.

I believe that they use sensors to catch jump starts. Could it be that he just didn't go far enough to trip it?
From my perspective, he got no advantage from it so it's kind of a moot point. If race direction didn't catch it or were unwilling to call it and they can't go back and impose it retroactively, what's the use of arguing now? The Spanish press will always argue their point and the Italian press do the same. They both play a cynical game of it.
I know when Toseland had one at Laguna in 09, he tripped the sensor. I think so at least.

Frankly I'm amazed it's taken a whole day for this to become a story. I nearly jumped off the sofa shouting 'ROSSI JUMPED THE START!' while watching the race live, rewound it to confirm several times, and was stunned he didn't get a ride through.

So, to dismantle some of the arguments:

* Forget about moral equivalency - Jorge might have jumped a previous start but Rossi's jumped start doesn't make it one-all between them. There's more than two people in a race and a jumped start doesn't just disadvantage your main rival. Doing what Rossi did can also throw other riders off their concentration

* Forget about whether he 'gained an advantage'. That doesn't come into the rules, which state clearly that if you 'anticipate' the start, ie move your bike forward, you have jumped the start.

* Load of rubbish about him moving only 'a fraction'. The front camera angle shown at race start on broadcast TV is VERY WIDE so he must have moved quite a bit for it to be visible to me on my crappy standard-definition TV. With the view afforded to Race Direction the amount of movement must have stuck out like dog's proverbials.

This is either a massive screw-up or massive cover-up by Race Direction.

...Jorge's move on Dovi in Qatar this year. Or his dive up the inside of Dovi in Catalunya, or on Spies at the top of the Corkscrew in Laguna. Which he even said was dangerous. Not saying I had a problem with these passes (although the Qatar one on Dovi looked really bad) but if Jorge really wants to analyze dangerous overtaking and "not nice" emotions/feelings he should start there... Just sayin'

Vinny
twitter @deftjester

This article is about the Spanish media's complaint that Rossi made a false start. In that sense, an analysis of Spanish media's previous complaints or lack thereof is perfectly appropriate. :)

The way the jump start works is that after a few laps we get on screen on the monitors the word "no jump start". This is like a ball-strike call in baseball. It cannot be protested or changed. I got several SMS messages while we were live on air telling me that Rossi had jumped. But I don´t jump on things like that because we don´t have the option in the booth of instant replay. Unless it is a blatant jump (this wasn´t that obvious), it is better for commentators to wait for the call...at least that is the way I feel.

Regarding the passes, the complaint from Jorge and the slap on Rossi's wrist from Yamaha:
They were racing passes, especially in a fight for the podium on the last two laps.
It was correct for Jorge to speak to Yamaha about this...with the title in play and the manufacturer's title still open...basically Jorge went to Yamaha and said WTF? He didn´t go to race direction. He never said the passes deserved official sanction...in fact he said they were "legal" but he was questioning whether Rossi's attacks on a Yamaha team mate were kosher. (Much as Nicky Hayden "questioned" Pedrosa's tactics after Estoril, 2006...and Honda read Dani the Roit Act and ordered him to "stay behind Nicky" at Valencia.)

We would probably never have known about Jorge going to Yamaha if Yamaha had not decided to go public. First they called Rossi in for a stern word from Furusawa and then Lin Jarvis met with a small group of Italian and Spanish journalists.

I can´t see how Yamaha could have done anything different in this case. Maybe they should have talked to both riders before the race. Maybe that wouldn't have made any difference anyway.

Were the passes by Rossi at Jerez 2005 and Laguna Seca 2008 over the top? That is something that Race Direction has to decide on the basis of their own interpretation of their own rules.

Right now the situation is dangerous...more than just the danger of racing. This is where there should be riders' meetings before each event as in F1 where riders and race officiales get into each other`s faces behind closed doors. This should happen en Moto2 and 125 as well because in all classes there are issues.

>>> Their actual words were .... Looks like Rossi had some trouble getting off the line.

To me it looks like he started to move and backed off, so when the lights did go off, he was at a disadvantage. That is why it looked like "he had trouble" instead of it looking like a jump start. There was clearly no advantage. Should he have recieved a drive through penalty? Who knows? But if he would have, it would have been for moving, not because he had an advantage by doing so.

All that aside, it's a shame to see people complain about the first exciting race this year. JL lost the battle between he and Rossi fair and square. What is so hard to understand? But I will say this, if Rossi goes well on the Ducati, JL better get use to it. And I also think it's a good indicator on who will win a battle between those two if and when it happens again. :)

Cheers!
Eddie

I don't think people are complaining about the race per se: I think the question is: does Rossi get preferential treatment from Race Direction, given his status? I don't think anyone can definitively answer that question, but it appears that, yes, Rossi does get some extra space that other riders don't get.

What happened is, as far as I can tell: Rossi broke the jump start rule. The jumped start did not give Rossi an advantage over anyone else in the race. Race Direction must have cleanly seen the jumped start, and chose not to call it, for whatever reason (Rossi getting special treatment, or that it did not give him any benefit, or whatever their reasoning was). And, as a result, we were treated to the most exciting race of the season.

Personally, I'm not complaining about the race. I'm a diehard Lorenzo fan, but JLo got beat fair and square by Rossi in that duel. My complaints are with Race Direction, which has repeatedly shown throughout this *entire* season a lack of consistency and responsibility. There are incidents in all three classes that match the one in question today, and we have wildly varying calls made for each one. We have a proven history of Rossi gaining what *appears* to be preferential treatment from Race Direction, though at other times, Rossi's competitors have benefitted from the same lack of consistant treatment.

My only wish is that Race Direction would get their head on straight and start calling things consistently, across the three classes, across all the rules. Sunday, they botched a call, and we benefitted from it with some great racing. But, the point is, they shouldn't be botching calls. If they're going to be this inconsistent, why even bother having a Race Direction?

Race Direction likely missed the opportunity to enforce the rule within the first four laps (as designated in the rules) because Rossi barely crept forward. He didn't shoot out of the gates and gain an advantage that would have been easily noticed ... which is the essence of why this rule was created. Yes, rules should be enforced unilaterally but I, for one, didn't notice the transgression until it was raised by the press. It was literally that 'immaterial' to the race.

As for the battle that ensued during the end of the race ... THAT is RACING ... and it's why many of us watch a sport at this level. Jorge is just upset because Rossi won this battle, period. Lorenzo is going to win the championship. Rossi is proving to himself and his fans that he still has it after the injuries suffered this season. And he's testing the limits of his shoulder to see if the surgery is needed sooner than later. He is a competitor. Lorenzo needs to stop whining as it only makes him seem weak and undeserving of his championship run (which he otherwise totally deserves!)

For those who have made comments about what Rossi brings to the sport ... Laguna Seca (where I live nearby ... well, 5 hours ride) was completely UNDERSOLD until it was announced that Rossi would race there WAY ahead of schedule given the severity of his injuries. Attendance jumped immediately when he announced he'd be racing here. It has nothing to do with the sport being around a long time as some have suggested. Certain figures are a BIG draw and Rossi is the biggest in MotoGP.

I congratulate Lorenzo for his victorious season. But can't condone the whining that takes away from his efforts this season. Rossi was the better rider last weekend ... get over it Jorge!

...that rather than loosing too much time about the past (which is gone) we can focus first on facts and then ideas.

Facts:
1) Rossi did move (I haven't seen the start of the race but I trust all of you)
2) Moving is jump start no matter what, who or how
3) Rossi should have been penalised.

Ideas:
1) Would have it been fair? Vast majority says no.
2) Why? Because the rule doesn't really make sense the way it is.

So ... I would argue that what we (they) should talk about is "how can we change the rule to make it fair and avoid this in the future?". In F1 if you cut through a chicane and you gain something you are not penalised as long as you give that something (usually position) immediatly. Can't really use it as it is for a jump start but it's a starting point (sorry for the pun).

Other question is does VR gets special treatment. Well all the top guys in every sport more or less does. And it is not only because of how much they bring to it (Rossi contribution to MotoGP has no equal in history ... and even in many other sports). But also to the human side of people, Race Direction in this case. If they rule agains Mr. X and it's wrong ... well mistakes happen. But if you rule against VR (or any other big name) and it turns out it was wrong ... well you go down in history.

Great duel anyway, and hopefully they will change the rule!

Because I really read motomatters commenters with great awe :)

It seems a fact to me after reading so many witness of it... like I haven't seen the pyramids with my eyes but I believe as a fact that they exist because so many respectable people has seen them!

Anyway I could rephrase it as "allegedly he jump started".
Still I believe it's time to review the rulebook.

'Rossi's brutal entanglement with Jorge Lorenzo'? Brutal? It's called racing folks. Quit the whining. Somewhere Kenny Roberts must be enjoying a good laugh.

LOL @ 3B43. I agree that this was the type of race you look for. In truth, racing is a drama. People can talk and say they want to see people be comrade, friends, buddies...etc after a race. But if you have ever competed to win something, you know that it is hard to stay friendly until the competition is over. All the riders riding on one level or another feel they are the best. The best in the world. So anytime they are beat or out done in any way, there will be a problem. Rossi, unlike most other racers, seemed to have a regular life at some point, and is able to play with minds on a higher level than others. He gets some of his power by getting in people's heads. This causes drama. This causes some to love him, some to hate him. But it also brings in money. Money people pay to see him beat, and most to see him win.

Racing needs villains and heroes. Without the two, it can loose the tension. You got have different people that are hated, and loved. This creates the drama that makes it all worth watching. There are enough in Motogp now to have a changing of guard. But I bet the now whily old veteran will have one more trick up his sleeve. ;)

but never thought about it again until I saw the headline. I'm going to have to re-watch and see if it's true. Maybe if he misses PI we could give him a ride though in absentia or just maybe park his abandoned bike on pit lane at the start.

I just watched the race in ULTRA SLOMO . . . and IF Rossi did jump, it might have been by a cm! It DID appear that his bike moved, but he also took his leftg foot off the peg at the same time the bike seemed to move. Did THAT cause the bike to move? I couldn't tell by watching it in USM. His bike actually moved last, compared to Stoner/Divo . . .

I've already posted on the 'dust up' between the two . . . and I can't believe the whiners/whinning about it. Like someone posted: SOMEWHERE KENNY ROBERTS IS LAUGHING AND SHAKING HIS HEAD!