Racing circuit pantheon

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Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

Words of wisdom from Doctor Emmett " Silverstone belongs in the racing pantheon alongside Mugello, Assen, Brno, Phillip Island"

Good to see David hasn't forgotten.
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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

As a TV spectator fan, I completely agree.

England's second best track is Brands Hatch, too bad it's not safe enough for MotoGP.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

Mexico has been dropped for 2019 after rider safety concerns, on the cards for 2020. I didn't find any interesting info on the circuit

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/90435 ... until-2020
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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

Good news. That track is basically a street circuit.

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AntG23985
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by AntG23985 »

kenup283 wrote:
CLX wrote:Coincidence or not, F1 dropped the old Nurburgring after 1976.

I wonder if anyone ever raced at both.
Surtees and Hailwood are sure bets, I’m sure there are others too but what these two did will never be matched.

76’ was the year finally it came to a head, top drivers and riders trying to boycott both, then a friend of Agos went off at the veranda corners on IOM (think Connor Cummings) and also Niki Lauda had his famous burning crash saved only by fellow racers. Which reminds me now of the kinda recent movie “Rush” if you haven’t seen it worth checking out.

Part of the reasons for such long historic courses going away was the inability to marshall and respond effectively to injured racers. The IOM has in recent years benefited from a group of doctors on motorcycles who get to the riders quickly to stablize them, but this is not also without risk as Dr John Hinds who was a large part of this passed a few years back.

Without the details known yet we recently had this year a rider critically injured at the IOM when hit by an emergency response vehicle trying to get to the scene of an accident that ultimately claimed the life of the first rider which brought out the red flag. I mention this as even today rapid response and marshallng on such tracks is not without its challenges.

That said this thread has me somewhat confused, is there anything in particular we are looking for here or are we just naming random tracks we like?
No doctors on bikes at the TT, they're the Travelling Marshals, ex-TT/ManxGP competitors who respond to incidents on track, they're first aid trained but not like the ones in Ireland who are actual doctors.

The response car incident came about because somebody gave permission to the riders to go back to the Grandstand in the opposite direction without asking Race Control. It's not uncommon for riders to return to the Grandstand that way but they are ALWAYS under escort by a Travelling Marshal. Whoever gave the permission to Steve and any other rider to return that night is in the wrong as there was no TM leading them back.

Apical
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Kyalami Back !!!

Post by Apical »

Kyalami Back !!! David retweeted a post regarding Kyalami coming back next year, so I had a look at Speedweek, in German of corse,curse my high school German.
http://www.speedweek.com/sbk/news/13279 ... rueck.html This is the translation.

As announced by SPEEDWEEK.com, after a nine-year hiatus in 2019, there will once again be a Superbike World Championship event on the African continent: on the renovated racetrack in Kyalami / South Africa.

In July 2014, the Kyalami Grand Prix Circuit in Johannesburg changed ownership for 14.5 million euros, the race track since Porsche South Africa. Managing Director Toby Venter wants to breathe new life into the 4.3-kilometer circuit and bring it back to its former glory, and early on showed interest in racing series such as the Superbike, Endurance and World Touring Car Championship. The necessary homologation already has the track. "The purchase was driven by emotions and passion, but is driven by a business model," said Venter in mid-2014. "It's to become part of our business."
SPEEDWEEK.com reported in early June 2018 that the odds are good that another World Superbike event will be held in Kyalami after a nine-year abstinence(absence) in 2019. On the old track seven times was raced between 1998 and 2010, Colin Edwards is the most successful driver with three wins, Frankie Chili, Carl Fogarty, Noriyuki Haga and Troy Bayliss each won twice. The last victory in 2010 conquered Leon Haslam on Suzuki.

Now it has leaked: World Cup promoter Dorna and the leaders of the Kyalami Grand Prix Circuit are in agreement, the race is expected to end at the end of August 2019 at the request of Africans. This means that the summer break will be considerably shorter next year, and in 2018 it was tedious nine weeks.

"They have made the whole route new," enthuses Sheridan Morais. The South African tore the fans into jubilation storms during the 2009 and 2010 races, he is from Johannesburg. "The track was 800 meters longer, wider and got a new asphalt. I do not know how much money they invested, but a lot. The entire track was lowered by three meters, everything is new, including the speakers. The racetrack is located on a large area, around the track was enough space to make everything further and thus safer. For the Formula 1 and MotoGP the track is not suitable, which is great. I rode there at the beginning of the year and the track is very good for the Superbike World Championship. It used to be a Mickey Mouse track, but today it's different. "

Sorry about the quality of the translation. Sounds good to me, lets get back to world championship motorcycle racing in Africa. Fingers crossed.

CLX Said "That said this thread has me somewhat confused, is there anything in particular we are looking for here or are we just naming random tracks we like?"
Yes CLX we are naming random tracks we like. Since the banner on the top of the page reads "Intelligent debate about motorcycle racing" I hope we can add some reasons why track X is good. But if somebody likes Motegi for example, for whatever reason that's cool by me.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

That's great news, the entire of Africa is missing from MotoGP and now it isn't
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Rick650
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Rick650 »

Love the translation.
The world needs more "jubilation storms"
The new track sounds good as well.

Apical
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Re: More than naming random tracks we like

Post by Apical »

Another thought regarding naming random tracks we like, I am interested in tracks that have been involved with m/c racing over the years. Tracks visited by World SBK in the last 30 years & Venues where there has been Motorcycle grand prix racing since 1948 or 1949 whichever was the first season.

So for me it's also about history, being aware of what the tracks & facilities where like when Agostini for example was racing. To me this helps to understand the sport. Where we have come from, Big respect for the racers of the past who endured conditions no rider would put up with now. Knowing how we got to where we are now. The changes in what was acceptable in the past compared to now. Major changes, not much racing over the train tracks these days, for example.
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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

What about Buriram? A simple look at the layout does not inspire confidence, but all of a sudden there were very good races and a modern classic on Sunday. If I had to guess, I'd say it because the circuit's two halves are entirely different. Form the exit of turn 11 to turn 4 it's stop and go but the rest about sweeping corner speed and agility. And then there's the Thai heat, which naturally punishes tyres and helped prevent a run away race.

I give Buriram a generous but fair 8/10.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Apical wrote:Another thought regarding naming random tracks we like, I am interested in tracks that have been involved with m/c racing over the years. Tracks visited by World SBK in the last 30 years & Venues where there has been Motorcycle grand prix racing since 1948 or 1949 whichever was the first season.

So for me it's also about history, being aware of what the tracks & facilities where like when Agostini for example was racing. To me this helps to understand the sport. Where we have come from, Big respect for the racers of the past who endured conditions no rider would put up with now. Knowing how we got to where we are now. The changes in what was acceptable in the past compared to now. Major changes, not much racing over the train tracks these days, for example.
It's worth reading the new book by Matt Oxley, "Speed: The One Genuinely Modern Pleasure " (a quote from Aldous Huxley) - some of the stories about the early days of motorcycle racing (especially early 20th century) are absolutely beyond belief.
Just incredible reading about the riders having to mix the carburation with one hand on the engine while hurtling along cobbled, dirty streets (with no throttle either - just a power 'on' and 'off' lever!)
And as you would expect some great characters from that time.

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

There is nothing like Philip Island. Mugello and Assen are classics in their own right, but PI takes it a step further. I was afraid and excited through all three races. It’s not only the speed, but how the bikes suck each other close and invite overtaking.

When billionaire diletants build pet project cirucits in Abu Dhabi and Qatar, why do they settle for cookie cutters instead of something fast and exciting?

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

A race in Bali would be good for me. I could combine a training course, which occurs anyway and the race and partially write off the visit as a work related expense

https://motomatters.com/news/2018/11/06 ... _step.html

Whether its a good course or not will depend on who designs it and whether the same design needs to cater for 2 extra wheels
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Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

Lombok. May never happen, may not get many punters paying full price for MotoGp.
I guess the theory is "build it & they will come" Or at the very least my relatives will make a small fortune during the construction phase. Then they will have a sinecure for life as the live-in maintenance & security people.
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

Vietnam? From the graphic I'm wondering if there's enough runoff in some places for motorbikes

https://www.crash.net/f1/video/909830/1 ... ck-preview
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Tourn46
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Tourn46 »

Mikesbytes wrote:Vietnam? From the graphic I'm wondering if there's enough runoff in some places for motorbikes

https://www.crash.net/f1/video/909830/1 ... ck-preview
Looks even more miserable than COTA for bike racing to me.

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JanBros
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by JanBros »

plain stupid lay-out
Bi-stroker Parallelus Bi-cylindricus

Apical
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Circuits where the corners have names

Post by Apical »

Been thinking the tracks I like are circuits where the curves have names e.g. Scarperia, Siberia, de Strubben, Coppice, Maggots, not too keen on that one.

I like the idea of corners with names. There is a turn one at every race track, but there is only one Eau Rouge, one Hell corner as far as I know.

Devil's elbow doesn't exist any more. Any suggestions where we could use the name, the fast right at Istanbul ?

Looks like trackpedia is back on the web. Yay, but it is in french boo. Would someone like to have a look & see if Trackpedia still has track maps, track guides etc, thanks.
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

I would imagine Devils Elbow being a U-turn or semi U-turn at the end of a very long straight. Don't know which track/corner the name could go to
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Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

The first gear hairpin in China ? MikesBytes. MotoGp went there at one stage, Shanghai. MotoGp went there around 2006. Wiki says 2005 till 08. Fastest lap Colin Edwards Yay!

the Shanghai track is on the Motogp 08 game, very long fast straight, some interesting curves, no spectators. not much fun

Unworthy to be mentioned in the illustrious pantheon !
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

kenup283
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by kenup283 »

To me a name like Devils Elbow would be a corner where trust, faith, and belief carry you through.

A corner you're not coming out the other side of the same without complete trust in your team, faith in your equipment and belief in yourself to perform. A conrner that demands the riders full capability.

It would be a fast corner. One that makes the top riders in the world shutter. One where even the best of the best roll back off the throttle. One where you feel like your on the edge of the world. A corner that is both fun and terrifying at the same time.

Now nothing will live up to that description, but somethoughts in my mind are:

The fast kink Mugello leading into turn one; lap after lap riders question who's the bravest and wonder themesleves if this time is the time they've finally overdone it. To put in another way its one place where even Marquez will lift.

Similarlly turn 1 at laguna Seca is a fast kink on straight that seperates the brave from bravest; lap after lap of being shown the edge of the track and cliff face of mountain at full throttle and full lean can take its toll on the fittest of minds. We saw how much this rattled even Casey Stoner, a testimate to the respect that must be paid there.

Following same pattern is the kink at Assen where Lorenzo pitched himself sky high in a wet pratice session after foreshadowing another weekend of utter domination till that point; It takes full commitment and demands the riders best each and every time. But as much as it demands it can quickly shatter. Rebuilding the faith and belief in oneself after and encounter here can be a long, deep and winding road to redemption.

Other mentions, Curvone at Missano, what else is there to say for a corner that quite literally translates to big balls corner.

I also have to say to my surprise that COTA has a corner, turn10, a fast left hander at crest of hill taken at 100mph with full lean as the track is dropping away at the point of temptation to take a bite out of the candy Apple red painted curb, as only the devil could do. Standing here track side only Marquez takes that bite, and does so lap after lap, all othes stay back almost as if a voice heard in their head told them they should. Josh Herrin has been quoted here as saying “You go over a drop-off, and it feels like you’re on the edge of the world.”

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Mallory Park Devil's Elbow

Post by Apical »

Well thank you Kenup 283 for your wisdom. I agree, well put.

I picked up the name Devil's Elbow in my research. I thought it was at a different circuit. The devil's elbow is at Mallory park in the U.K.
Mallory is still there so I was wrong. I see they are still operating, even have a M/C track day coming up 16 Feb.

Just having a quick check on wiki & there is a hairpin corner with the same name on the Isle of Man.

When I had a look at the track I had assumed it was on that corner is Henry's Knee. I was confused. Henry = Devil ? Motoshrink your opinion please.

I agree Kenup 283 it should be a fast one as you described so well. More a test of the rider's courage & intestinal fortitude.
Sometimes the mind says "keep it pinned" but the body rolls it off a little. Extra willpower eventually wins out.

Excellent examples, fast first turns at Mugello & Laguna Seca. the one at Mugello doesn't have a name afaik. only becomes a curve a very high speeds.
I like turn one at P.I. and would you believe turn one at Eastern creek a.k.a. SMSP it is a fast one.

Not familiar with turn ten at COTA
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Agree that names are a bit more evocative than just naming after a driver/rider etc.

Always loved Conrod Straight in Bathurst !

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Tourn46
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Tourn46 »

I like the corner name Bomb Hole at Snetterton.

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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by bikermike »

On the subject of names, how about Scary Tree Corner at Snetterton (not official, and it's now died)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/377948862258777/

The Devils Elbow at Mallory is well-named, it's a fast, off-camber lefthander opening from the rather phallic slow bit down onto the main straight. Until the chicanes were put in, it was the only left-hander on the circuit. You've got to get on the gas for a fast laptime[1], and it comes off the back of the slowest bits of the circuit when the L/h side of your tyre is cold. There is more than one line through it, so you can't block your opponent either, you have to be faster than him. Oh yes, and the run-off is a steep bank with the in-field behind it. At best you get a good audience of your mates, at worst, you land in them...
Caution required, but you can see the straight opening up in front of you and the right hand starts to twitch...


(I wouldn't put Mallory in the pantheon, but it's a finnicky little track that takes about 20 minutes to learn and a lifetime to master. If Assen is a Cathederal of speed, Mallory is a rather pretty 14th-Century parish church of speed. Overlooked in the main by the All-the-gear-no-idea brigade. And lovely for it.)

[1] so I'm told. Sometime steelie-racer who never troubled the scorers much

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