Marquez 2021

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Marquez 2021

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Thought this was pretty big 'news' and probably deserving of its own thread.

Simon Patterson reporting in The Race (latest podcast)
- Apparently initial surgery carried out on Marc after Jerez 1 has left Marc's arm (humerus?) with structural weakness. Effectively, like any load bearing structure, if you make too many holes in it then becomes weaker. Apparently the surgeons had affixed too many screws, this then resulted in a lack of flex in his arm, conversely causing the bone to be further damaged after Marc tried to ride at Jerez 2.
- Marc has been on some kind of hormone (chemical?) therapy to help 're-grow' the bone over the summer, however that hasn't been successful.
- They are now going to try a bone graft from his pelvis and introduce the bone to his arm.
- There are some pretty serious (i.e. 'world renowned') orthopaedic surgeons involved. No Doctor Mir in this case.
- High confidence of success with the op, however it has a very long recovery time (6 months) - this can't be rushed apparently as it relates to regrowth of the bones, so i.e. usual GP racers strength of tolerance to pain and fitness won't make an appreciable difference to recover time.

Don't know if anyone has heard anything more than this or corroborating info?

Steve Day on the world feed reported interestingly that this was a similar injury to the one that finished Carl Fogarrty's career. James Whitham adding his own comment that shoulder/upper arm injuries are probably one of the worst a rider can get.

Dreadful news for Marc if true. I always had a feeling that he wouldn't have a career running into his 30s just because of the way he rides, but it would be a real loss to the sport if it was cut short like this. Base case scenario, if the above about the Op and recovery times are true, it is going to impact his 2021 season.

The only thing that makes me think it might not be this bad, is that surely if it was HRC would have made more of an effort to get hold of Dovi as test rider for the team (who could have stepped in if Marc isn't able to race from the season start?) That's complete conjecture on my part however.

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Fingernails
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Fingernails »

That is definitely very big news. I too thought that his career might be shorter than it otherwise might be due to injury. However, I never even thought that this might be the end of it. It does sound very complicated, and uncertain as to how things will pan out.

Even if he can return and be quick again, which I'd still feel most likely though not based on enough evidence, he'd surely have to adapt his style. He can't go on smashing up his bones forever.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Mikesbytes »

I had been thinking it was nerve damage as bones typically heal in a shorter time than he has been out. I don't know if this is worse but it certainly has the potential to be career finishing. Doohan was in a similar situation with his leg and came back so hopefully so will Marquez
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bikermike
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by bikermike »

it's not looking clever is it?

I wonder if he's over-trained over the time and not given himself recovery time. He's always looked pretty low on body fat. I would have expected him to put a bit on when trying to recover.

Has he had that area plated before that hasn't properly healed?
Bone infection?

MickD had compartment syndrome (which I can't remember what is off the top of my head,but it's due to circulation etc) and needed his other leg to provide the blood supply - if that sort of thing was needed, I think Marc would have more visible damage.

Hope he makes a full recovery

bikermike
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by bikermike »

"James Whitham adding his own comment that shoulder/upper arm injuries are probably one of the worst a rider can get."
when a bloke who had leukemia says that...

hdot
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by hdot »

Osteo doc on Reddit was saying the way they handled this was madness and the integrity of his humerus is in jeopardy

I don't like seeing people taking pleasure in saying "I told you so" but yea it's crazy that as outsiders we all saw this coming. Really hoping he can make a full return even though this season showed the series will be fine without him (or Rossi for that matter)

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Marc had an 8-hour op yesterday, it sounds like previous rumours of the bone graft procedure were true
https://the-race.com/motogp/marquez-thi ... roken-arm/

Some other bits I have read about the interwebs (from other journos - Mat Oxley, David Emmett etc.)
- the op is not 'high risk' and has a high success rate. No mention of nerve damage or other problems that could prompt a bigger problem.
- Issue is more with recovery time, possible Marc won't be able to race until May/June next year.
- HRC may be lining up Dovi to ride until Marc is in a position to return.

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Fingernails
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Fingernails »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:37 pm

- HRC may be lining up Dovi to ride until Marc is in a position to return.
If Dovi is leading the championship in May/June, what do they do then?

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Good question! I wonder if Marc isn't ready for the start of the season, they might have two 'standard' riders Pol and Dovi in Repsol and then have to get some kind of dispensation from Dorna for Marc to have a 3rd bike in the team when he returns from injury?

I can't remember the last time we had a season start and not have a rider ready to ride. Is there any precedent for that?

bikermike
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by bikermike »

Fingernails wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:14 pm
MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 1:37 pm

- HRC may be lining up Dovi to ride until Marc is in a position to return.
If Dovi is leading the championship in May/June, what do they do then?
jam the glass doors a bit... ;)(joke)

I'm glad something is happening - I'd hate him to be stuck with an injury that just doesn't heal

lots of tinfoil hat froth on Crash, but I do wonder if Dovi is not pushing all those exciting plans he was talking about for next year, just in case...

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Mikesbytes »

I'm going to guess that Honda is contract bound to give Marquez his bike when he is ready to race
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CLX
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by CLX »

2 cents time:

I blame Marc's premature comeback on Puig. Doctors aren't racers, at best they give clinical advice. They can't be blamed. Marc as a racer is naturally drunk on the competition himself and he is even more on the natural prospect of titles, records and the GOAT debate. As a team manager and former racer, the veto should have belonged to Puig even if it meant pissing Marc off more than anyone had ever done before. Letting Marc try to race was a horrible decision to Marc, the team and all of HRC's project. His omission is likely the single worse mistake anyone at HRC has comitted in decades.

I blame Puig and HRC should have fired him already.

-----
Everything we consider fiction is reality somewhere else. This is somewhere's fiction.

Schwantz34
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Schwantz34 »

Sorry, but I think pointing the finger at one person or group of people is being naive.
It's very often the case that when something bad happens people look to point the finger at a single person or group ie a scapegoat, when reality is that more than one person/ group bears some portion of responsibility.

In this case Marc, the doctors, Honda and likely more all share some of the blame.

I read that they have established there was infection which is potentially the cause of failure to heal. Marc will undergo specific antibiotic treatment in an effort to eliminate that.
Love him or loathe him I think we should be thankful the root cause has been uncovered and hopefully his road to recovery starts now.

Redglare
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Redglare »

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/94982 ... -confirmed


He’s not having a good time of it at all, I can’t see him being ready for the start of the season at this rate.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Interesting comment from Simon Patterson on the Race podcast. Apparently he showed the x-ray pics of his arm that Marc posted online (and which got taken down shortly afterwards) to an orthopaedic surgeon. There view was way too many pinning points, nothing like enough flexibility as one have been done with a 'normal' pinning of that type.
His thought was that it was probably done with a view of getting Marc back onto the bike as quickly as possible; the bone is broken so you need that scaffolding to maintain the structure of the arm. But, there was an implicit risk and now this is why he has had to have a third surgery and is facing the loss of at least part of another season.

The question is who to blame for this? Was Marc not fully consulted on the risks? Did Puig push for the surgery to be in that form?
I can't imagine HRC management wanting to risk their 'golden goose' like that after a five year contract signing for that many millions.
We will probably find out if Puig, or someone else from Marc's circle (or HRC even) suddenly disappears..

Claudio Pernat also commenting (and no idea what this is based on) that he is pessimistic about Marc returning at all in 2021.

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Fingernails
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Fingernails »

I think this might be a case of 'Less haste, more speed'.

As you say, they tried to rush Marc's return to attempt to salvage the 2020 championship.

What the long term costs of that will be ... we will find out.
Last edited by Fingernails on Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bikermike
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by bikermike »

That infection isn't good news. GWS Marquez!

I hope he takes the time to get it fixed this time.

Schwantz34
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Schwantz34 »

Says he isn't coming back until he's 100%.

Again Ninja I'd imagine the blame will be spread out amongst various individuals/ groups. Although he gets a bad press I'd be surprised if Puig was the sole contributor to the outcome. Lots of people under a lot of pressure ( for various reasons)mean a high likeliehood of lots of bad decisions.
I firmly believe its been an unfortunate series of events, gambles like this can often pay off too

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Fingernails
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Fingernails »

Marquez is placing blame on doctors, this article says.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/95004 ... er-doctors

Though:

"Marc Marquez concedes he shouldn't have attempted a return to action just days after major surgery but says it was up to doctors to convince him not to."

Hmmm...

kenup283
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by kenup283 »

I’m guessing the doctors didn’t expect he’d be dragging his elbow on his broken arm on the asphalt !

But where I think he did it was dragging same elbow with plate and screw in arm across the rumble strips on inside of curve.

There’s some good slow mo vid of him doing it in practice. It’s what Id call an accumulation of stress. :)

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Mikesbytes »

kenup283 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:30 am
I’m guessing the doctors didn’t expect he’d be dragging his elbow on his broken arm on the asphalt !

But where I think he did it was dragging same elbow with plate and screw in arm across the rumble strips on inside of curve.

There’s some good slow mo vid of him doing it in practice. It’s what Id call an accumulation of stress. :)
Or state the g-force rating, such as under braking, or should I spell it breaking. I forget who but one of the team members was distancing himself from Marquez rejoining siting Millers spinal injury stating how he encouraged Miller not to return. I don't recall any mention of Lorenzo.
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Mikesbytes »

Does this comment by Nakagami say that Marquez won't be racing at the beginning of 2021 or has something been lost in the communication? https://www.gpone.com/en/2020/12/11/mot ... refresh_ce
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

That would line up with what Simon Patterson has said about the recovery time of that operation. He is almost certain to miss pre-season testing, likely to miss the first few races of the year.

What we can guarantee is that, given Marc's importance to HRC and money invested, there will be some *very* senior HRC staff ensuring that he doesn't try and return before he is physically ready, and risk jeopardising his career once and for all. It ain't going to be a few press-ups in circuit medical and "don't worry about me mate I'm fine"!

Interesting hearing Bautista dropping some "I would love to have a go in GPs again" comments recently, I don't think a coincidence..
kenup283 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:30 am
I’m guessing the doctors didn’t expect he’d be dragging his elbow on his broken arm on the asphalt !
As it was Mir that apparently did the operation you would have thought they knew it! :)

The commentary I heard was that the type of drilling/scaffolding arrangement that was in place was designed to get Marc back onto the bike as soon as possible. But, in doing so they weakened the structure of the bone. So, it was a decision that backfired.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Mikesbytes »

While its uncertain, its looking like Marquez may not be racing prior to June 2021 https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... y/4920698/
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Marquez 2021

Post by Mikesbytes »

Marquez isn't stating when he will return but the suggestion is that its within the first 3 races https://youtu.be/S2e8cRekxiw
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