TT 2014

Talk about national motorcycle racing series: AMA, BSB, Australian or Japanese Superbikes, IDM, CIV, CEV, Irish Road Racing, TT, whatever takes your fancy.

Re: TT 2014

Postby Hanuman on Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:40 am

Grahluk wrote:
Sure, there's no such thing as a threshold between "safe" & "dangerous". Yes you can be just as dead head butting a curb at 90 on a 125 as you can at 130 on a superbike. It's also a bald fact that higher speeds result in greater forces at work when they do come off the bike. Do I suggest they ban or do something to make the TT "safe"? No. Still someone like Scott Redding voicing the fact the carnage the TT produced is hard to bear sometimes. He knew both who died, one closely. You'd have to have something seriously wrong in your head to lose people close to you like that & not take a hard look at what we're accepting.


I am no supporter of the TT. At all.
I also don't call for it to be banned.
I know a couple of guys who race both the TT and some of the Road Races, and I spend most of TT weekend avoiding the coverage.

Of course there's no threshold between safe and dangerous, and that was my point.
I also have zero issues with Redding's comments. And his decision to not do the parade lap.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby JanBros on Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:20 am

Tourn46 wrote:2 deaths this week in horse riding championships... One in the UK and one in Germany.

Ban it?


off course, and then all the sponsor-money can go to motorbike-racing :mrgreen:
Last edited by JanBros on Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby Tourn46 on Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:53 am

JanBros wrote:
Tourn46 wrote:2 deaths this week in horse riding championships... One in the UK and one in Germany.

Ban it?


off course, and then all then all the sponsor-money can go to motorbike-racing :mrgreen:


:lol:
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Re: TT 2014

Postby tz250w on Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:09 pm

I didn't read Reddings comments either but I'm guessing they're probably not much different than what most modern day closed circuit riders think and feel. Going way back to when the TT was part of the GP circus riders were fighting for safer courses to race on. It's always been the riders fighting for this, not the organizers, sponsors or even fans (for the most part). Now that this has been achieved, why go back to the stone age with light sabers?

You don't see GP riders out there because, it's too dangerous. Besides it's more a test of who is willing to take more risks. Not who can push the bike to its limits.

I won't call for it to be banned, but I don't watch it either. I can't. I knew Jun Maeda from the paddock here and spent time on track with him. He was one that wanted to make it at the TT. His luck ran out. I was more angry than sad at the time and it came as no surprise.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby Cobbett on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:42 pm

tz250w wrote: Besides it's more a test of who is willing to take more risks. Not who can push the bike to its limits.


I genuinely respect and understand the arguments of those who are turned off by the high risks of road racing but - as someone who confessedly loves the TT and other road races - I don't think this really characterises the riders who do it. The top guys - McGuinness, Michael Dunlop, Anstey, Martin, Molyneux etc - rarely come off. Obviously the consequences of doing so are fearful; and in the main they have such a healthy respect for the dangers that they risk-take less than circuit racers, who have the albeit relative comfort of a gravel trap. On a circuit you can find the limit, bin it, then back off a notch; at the TT you have to wind it up progressively, from year to year. OK, Michael D comes across as a bit of a wild man, but McG, Anstey, Cam Donald, Michael Rutter etc etc don't really seem to me to have that 'No Fear' nutter mentality one might assume goes with the territory. McGuinness - 20 wins - always says that there is a comfort level beyond which he simply won't push, and if that means finishing 10th on the day, so be it and he tips his cap etc.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby tz250w on Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:51 am

Cobbett wrote:
tz250w wrote:I don't think this really characterises the riders who do it. The top guys - McGuinness, Michael Dunlop, Anstey, Martin, Molyneux etc - rarely come off. Obviously the consequences of doing so are fearful; and in the main they have such a healthy respect for the dangers that they risk-take less than circuit racers, who have the albeit relative comfort of a gravel trap. On a circuit you can find the limit, bin it, then back off a notch; at the TT you have to wind it up progressively, from year to year.


I agree with all of that except one thing. The consequences of the the risk involved in the two very, very different settings. I believe those top guys you mentioned are top because of their ability to stay on and build track knowledge (and yes, they're fast too). But I also believe they are running on borrowed time, for lack of a better word.

Again, I won't call for it to be banned and I'm not trying to badmouth it. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the allure to the riders. They're obviously a different breed. More of the extreme sports genre I suppose nowadays.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby AntG on Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:38 pm

The allure of road racing is probably the fact that it is so pure and gives an unbelievable thrill to competitors, I've watched the TT for many years on TV, VHS and DVD and after my first visit this year and seeing it in the flesh I can't look at the TV footage in the same way again, it doesn't do it justice, it's absolutely mental. It's also raised my respect for the likes of Ago, Hailwood, Surtees et al. who raced on this track and others like it all the time in the old GP days. Watching Michael Dunlop wrestle this beastly, ill-handling 200hp+ BMW around that place and smash the lap record from a standing start was something else and if you think how enjoyable it was for me, imagine how much of a buzz he got from it. I would never knock a rider for not wanting to do it but my respect for the ones who do take part is right up there with my respect for the GP greats.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby MiniNinjaMk5 on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:45 pm

I do wonder with the TT at what point the bikes will become just too fast. In fact, I think it may have already been reached. Yes tyre and brake technology has improved a lot, but there is absolutely no margin for error now. If even the slightest thing goes wrong on the bike at 200mph, you are done for, and its as simple as that. And that has been proven over recent years with the death of extremely experienced riders who are in some cases champions.

I quite admired Ryan Farquhar with his twins project for that - recognising that the (superbikes and stock especially) are too fast for the circuit and has tried to promote a class which will still challenge the riders, but isn't quite so mental.

Enjoyed watching the TT-zero as well as its serving as such a good test bed and developer for the new technology. Exactly the kind of thing the TT once functioned as, drawing in the Japanese companies, and I hope that will expand in future years.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby Cobbett on Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:52 pm

In one sense, bikes were too fast for road racing as soon as they reached speeds at which you could be seriously injured or worse, which is always. If you look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sn ... _accidents

you'll see that there's no real correlation between bike speed and fatality rates, though a variable in there will be the numbers of races/competitors over the years.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby MiniNinjaMk5 on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:13 pm

Bloody hell that list makes harrowing reading.

I suppose technically you can get killed falling off at 1mph. A friend of mine seriously hurt himself falling off less than 10mph, it's all down to the environment in which it happens.

I suppose in that sense you are probably right - if you hit a wall at 50mph or 200mph it will still kill you, although surely it's obvious that that the faster you go the greater the energy that could be directed into the rider, reduced reaction possibilities and all the rest of it? I think that probably some thought towards safety on the course (as much as that is possible on the TT) and improved marshalling and medical response has probably helped reduce some of the fatalities.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby AntG on Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:18 am

To be fair it's very rare that riders are killed on the full on superbikes which are the most powerful bikes, in recent years most fatalities seem to have involved 600's.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby smAshmoto on Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:58 am

To me,I don't think the TT should ever be banned until the riders as a majority collective group come out and say "this is too dangerous and I don't want to race here anymore".

If that happens, by all means, banning the event can be an option. But until these guys reach that point, if they ever reach it, who are we to stop them from doing something that , in some cases, they work their whole lives for? Look at your Guy Martin's, Michael Dunlops, Conor Cummins etc etc, to them winning the Senior TT on Friday would mean as much to them as Jorge Lorenzo, Marc Marquez or Valentino Rossi winning the World Championship.

To take that away from them under the grounds of safety so it can conform with the beliefs of this little politically correct world we live in would be the real tragedy.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby MiniNinjaMk5 on Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:56 pm

smAshmoto wrote:To me,I don't think the TT should ever be banned until the riders as a majority collective group come out and say "this is too dangerous and I don't want to race here anymore".


If that's the deciding factor, then we can safely say there will still be a TT in 2114. And perhaps forever after, unless something fundamental changes in human beings.

I'm not saying for a moment it should be banned. But, I find with each fatality the time for the TT diminishes, and have to say Karl Harris pretty much put me over the edge this year in terms of being able to watch and enjoy the event.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby AntG on Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:19 am

I first got into the TT as an 8 year old watching footage of Steve Hislop winning around there for the last time, then following the likes of Phil McCallen, Ian Simpson, Michael Rutter, David Jefferies, Joey and Robert for the years afterwards. Then McCallen and Simpson retired, Rutter stopped doing the TT for a few years and Joey died in Estonia but the one that hit me was the death of DJ in 2003, I'd met him just 3 weeks earlier at Oulton Park and he took 20 minutes to have a chat and I was devastated and to be honest I didn't watch the TT or road racing for several years until the young Dunlops caught my attention around 2007 and have watched it since. At times motorcycle racing can be a horrible and gruesome sport for example the image of Marco being taken from us was in my mind for several days(also having witnessed Dan Wheldons fatal IndyCar crash just seven days earlier too) but I keep getting drawn to it by the skill and sheer bravery of the competitors.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby JanBros on Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:17 pm

the TT is there for the racers, not for the spectators. They all know it can be their last TT. Just because spectators wouldn't want to see any more fatalities/losing friends/... is no reason at all for not allowing it any more. If that would be a legit reason to ban it, we should even ban ordinary cars on roads and all start walking to our work and carry our new sofa's ourselves home. As long as riders want to, it should/needs to be there without questions marks putted arround it.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby Grahluk on Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:11 pm

JanBros wrote:the TT is there for the racers, not for the spectators.


This!
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Re: TT 2014

Postby MiniNinjaMk5 on Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:19 pm

AntG wrote:I first got into the TT as an 8 year old watching footage of Steve Hislop winning around there for the last time, then following the likes of Phil McCallen, Ian Simpson, Michael Rutter, David Jefferies, Joey and Robert for the years afterwards. Then McCallen and Simpson retired, Rutter stopped doing the TT for a few years and Joey died in Estonia but the one that hit me was the death of DJ in 2003, I'd met him just 3 weeks earlier at Oulton Park and he took 20 minutes to have a chat and I was devastated and to be honest I didn't watch the TT or road racing for several years until the young Dunlops caught my attention around 2007 and have watched it since. At times motorcycle racing can be a horrible and gruesome sport for example the image of Marco being taken from us was in my mind for several days(also having witnessed Dan Wheldons fatal IndyCar crash just seven days earlier too) but I keep getting drawn to it by the skill and sheer bravery of the competitors.


I work with the wife of a man who was one of DJ's technicians at the time he was killed. Also worked in BSB at the time as well. After DJ was killed he left the sport (went on to cars actually). He still works with bikes and teams sometimes, but the death also killed his enjoyment of the sport.

My old man stopped following the sport for many years after the race in which Sarrinen was killed, I think it just absolutely sucked the life out of the sport for him. I guess this kind of thing is different for each of us.

Racing at high speed is always going to be dangerous, and undoubtedly this is part of the appeal. But, there is a sliding scale between staying at home on your sofa and catapulting along a countryside A-road 200mph with walls either side of you. Fortunately, thanks to a few riders standing up to the organisers (who generally won't do anything that will cost them money, which is true across most sports), riders aren't forced to take part in events like the TT anymore as part of grand-prix racing unless they choose to.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby oldboyonrgv on Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:59 am

There is also money to be earned doing the Roads - no money in circuit racing
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Re: TT 2014

Postby Rossifumi on Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:33 pm

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Had it been on the UK mainland it would have been cancelled 20 years ago (at least). It's only because of the number of financial institutions that work through the Isle, there is an agreement that the UK government won't interfere on local governmental matters, such as the continued running of the TT.

the Isle of Man is not actually part of the UK so the UK government has no jurisdiction. That's why the financial institutions are there too - to avoid UK tax
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Re: TT 2014

Postby smAshmoto on Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:35 am

For those who can stomach it, the video of Bob Price's accident is on Youtube. He never stood a chance.
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Re: TT 2014

Postby AntG on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:57 am

oldboyonrgv wrote:There is also money to be earned doing the Roads - no money in circuit racing


Yeah I've heard this too, I remember an interview with Michael and William Dunlop saying you don't get a bean for winning a BSB race but can come away with a couple of grand from an Irish roads meeting. I think Ian Hutchinson made close to £100,000 in prize money with his 2010 road racing season, I believe that's more than some MotoGP and WSBK riders make.
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