WSBK 2019

Talk about the World Superbike series run by FGSport. Including World Superbikes, World Supersport, European Superstock, etc.
Elton
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Elton »

Surely Kawasaki have a rev penalty coming after dominating the last few rounds, and locking out the podium at Donington. They've actually had far more representation in the top 5 than Ducati for the entire year

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Fingernails
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Fingernails »

Mikesbytes wrote: I'm wondering about Razgatlioglu, he's working his way to a fat contract especially this weekend
He's certainly producing the goods, but which team should he go for that would give him a shot at the championship? A better shot than he has now?

@Elton - the rules concerning revs seem quite complicated.

Elton
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Elton »

He's certainly producing the goods, but which team should he go for that would give him a shot at the championship? A better shot than he has now?
I'd like to see him on a factory Ducati. Time for Davies to move on after however many years its been. The other option would be in the factory Kawasaki team, but that bike has really been thoroughly developed around Rea's style now, it would be a tough ask to beat him on the same bike.


I think the Rev limits get set a few races into the season and then get parked again til next season. Piss poor if that's the case. Laguna Seca was abysmal racing, and the title is basically done and dusted halfway through the season.. Again. The crashes show how on the limit Bautista has been to win races on that bike. That said I wish he could have ridden for points in the races Rea has been stronger in but the pressure seems to have gotten to him. Congrats to Davies for winning race 2 but I'll be surprised if he can repeat that form outside Laguna. Sounds like it was more down to a setup error from Rea anyway.

kenup283
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by kenup283 »

The rev limits can be changed every 3 rounds, just like the air restricor limits were before them, and the weight limits before those.

We've been hearing the championship is over already since after a handful of races, now it is another rider ontop. A quick look back at results tells the same old tale. Championships are won and lost on your bad days when you aren't winning.

In the manufactures chamionship points, ducati and kawasaki are level. Meaning top scoring bikes from each brand have been equal thus far.

If you look at how many of those come from one rider versus another, it's Rea who' is scoring the lions share for his manufacture more so than Bautista for ducati.

So if balancing is for the bikes and not the rider then there's a stronger case that kawasaki stays where it is as it has been Rea and not Kawasaki who's made the differnece. Once again not necassarily a new story either.

That said I am confused why kawasaki got a new rev limit for 2019 rather than carrying in their 2018 limits which the rules say they should have done.

Elton
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Elton »

kenup283 wrote:
If you look at how many of those come from one rider versus another, it's Rea who' is scoring the lions share for his manufacture more so than Bautista for ducati.

So if balancing is for the bikes and not the rider then there's a stronger case that kawasaki stays where it is as it has been Rea and not Kawasaki who's made the differnece. Once again not necassarily a new story either.
.
No way. If its supposed to be calculated every three rounds then Kawasaki have won 7 of the past 9 races! Apart from Davies at Laguna what other Ducati has been getting on the podium apart from Bautista? Looking at the title points the next best Ducat is Chaz in 7th, with both Haslam and Toprak ahead of him.

Rea is not going to lose the title from here, if you think he's giving up an 80 point lead this far into the championship you haven't been watching WSBK the last couple of years. It would take a big injury or something which is unlikely because with that sort of a lead he can afford to pick his battles. The title was never over while he was finishing second every round because he was always going to have strong tracks later on.

kenup283
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by kenup283 »

The rev limits can be changed every 3 rounds, that is not the same thing as only looking at the last 3 rounds.

If you want to say apart from Davies then also look at it apart from the one time other Kawasaki riders finshed ahead of Rea versus the 7 times other ducati riders finshed ahead of Bautista thus far.

I agree people watch races and can form differnt opinons but simply looking at the numbers, which an algorithm should do, Rea has 433 points, just 2 less than his mfgr of 435, and Bautista has 352 points quite a bit less than his mfgr at 436.

Said another way the difference to next the highest scoring rider for each mfgr is 231 points for Kawasaki, Rea to Haslam, and 168 for ducati, Bautista to Davis. That tells me Rea is more the factor once again, and up to this point thus far more so than Bautista. Not in terms of wins, but points scored.

Regarding the two Kawasaki riders ahead of Davis, there are also two yamahas ahead of them, which makes the yamaha look like the best bike if you see it as being stacked up just behind what are clearly the best two riders. You could offer another metric if you'd like. say an average of the top three riders from each mfgr or an avg of the next two after dropping the top rider from each mfgr. I'd be curious what numbers you come up with.

As for the championship I wouldn't call it one way or another just yet. There are more points on offer each weekend this year which can swing things quicker than in past and plenty of points left to be had. That said your last sentence is precisely why Rea wins championships.

Elton
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Elton »

kenup283 wrote:The rev limits can be changed every 3 rounds, that is not the same thing as only looking at the last 3 rounds.

If you want to say apart from Davies then also look at it apart from the one time other Kawasaki riders finshed ahead of Rea versus the 7 times other ducati riders finshed ahead of Bautista thus far.
Why do you think they're calculated every three rounds? In order to prevent one manufacturer from dominating for too long before an adjustment is made, clearly, and the total points scored by Kawasaki vs Ducati for the past 3 rounds is severely one sided.
Last edited by Elton on Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Elton
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Elton »

kenup283 wrote:
I agree people watch races and can form differnt opinons but simply looking at the numbers, which an algorithm should do, Rea has 433 points, just 2 less than his mfgr of 435, and Bautista has 352 points quite a bit less than his mfgr at 436.

Said another way the difference to next the highest scoring rider for each mfgr is 231 points for Kawasaki, Rea to Haslam, and 168 for ducati, Bautista to Davis. That tells me Rea is more the factor once again, and up to this point thus far more so than Bautista. Not in terms of wins, but points scored.

WSBK constructors points are only scored by the top rider from each manufacturer per race. So the fact Bautista has had so many DNFs means other Ducati's have scored a higher proportion of their overall manufacturer points. Doesn't really prove anything, and to my mind it's a misleading representation of the relative strength of Kawasaki vs Ducati in WSBK at the moment.

The numbers do tell the story though. A clearer picture is gained if you add up the scores of the top 4 Kawasakis vs the top 4 Ducatis in the championship. Below that level there are very few points scored and there are more kawasakis overall. On this basis Kawasaki have scored 922 championship points vs 674 points by Ducati, a pretty huge difference. Bautista has scored over 52% of those points, vs 47% for Rea, so despite those DNFs Bautista has a higher proportion of Ducati's championship points.

Edit - I noticed Laverty has missed a few rounds due to crashing at Imola (Ducati riders also have a higher crash rate than Kawasaki), but if you exclude he and Torres and just take the top 3 from Duc and Kaw, the picture is very similar, with Bautista still scoring a higher proportion of manufacturer points and Kawasaki still dominating in terms of overall points, 826 to 633.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Mikesbytes »

As we know the rev limit thing is a way of handicapping. I'm seeing that if another adjustment was made, then perhaps leave Ducati and Kawasaki where they are and give Yamaha + BMW another 250rpm and Honda another 500rpm

In regards to Bautista vs Rea, while Bautista was killing it at the beginning of the season Rea was consistent and that meant that when Bautista lost his consistency that Rea was close enough to close in. Bautista's inconsistency was compounded by being hurt in the first race of the last round, taking him out for the entire round.

Championship wise, if Bautista won all of the remaining races and Rea came second in all of the remaining races, what would be the points outcome?
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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Mikesbytes »

Rea and Bautista are a ridiculous amount of points ahead of 3rd place. For 3rd place there's 6 potential riders for that slot, if Rea and Bautista weren't racing we would be talking about how close the championship is
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Mikesbytes
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WSBK 2019 Round 10 – Portimão

Post by Mikesbytes »

Round 10 – Portimão

I understand that is one of Rea's best circuits, so it will be a real test of Bautista/Ducati to see if they can give Rea a hard time
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Vmax666
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Vmax666 »

Some bad luck for Bautista in the first 2 races
But the way he goes by people on the main straight must be demoralising
Rea just has to finish behind him to win the championship but I think at the tighter tracks there will be good racing

But the rest of the pack need a change. Massive gap to third in the championship. And on track rea and Bautista make the others look quite average

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Fingernails
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Fingernails »

Given his speed, why is he no longer winning so many races?

Something has gone wrong somewhere. Not sure what.

Vmax666
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Vmax666 »

Must be over confidence from Bautista after dominating easily in the early races
Last year didn’t melandri win easily in first few races then struggled until near the end of the year
Having heard Bautista was on 40k per race win bonuses then maybe he got a bit giddy and started pushing to hard on a full tank

Overall though I think it’s been a poor year. The gap to third is huge.
It can’t be machine advantage as all other Kawasaki’s and Ducati’s are running around with the yamaha and bmw

It will be interesting to see how redding goes next year

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Fingernails
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Fingernails »

I want to see how Redding goes this year. In Moto2 he fell apart at the end of the season and lost what seemed to be a sure thing championship. It's going to be very interesting seeing how he handles the end of the year shootout in British Superbikes, and I think this will be a strong indication of how much of a challenger he will be in WSBK.

I've got behind; is it certain that Redding will be in WSBK next year?

Vmax666
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Vmax666 »

Seen confirmation online and by watching bsb last week
But your right he may come apart
But watching brooks he seems to be the one who looks downbeat after the last round

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Fingernails
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Fingernails »

I think that Redding will be cool during the end of the championship, but it is far from sure.

Brookes looking downbeat at the end of the weekend might have something to do with an unforced fall while leading easily. That tends to put a damper on a rider's weekend :D

Schwantz34
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Schwantz34 »

Hats off to the WSB riders for putting on a great show at Magny Cours and many congrats to Toprak for sealing his first win. Kawasaki mad for letting him go :?

Vmax666
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Vmax666 »

Best race of the year for me
Maybe Witham was right in saying stop all practices and then the racing might be closer ( he did say it jokingly)
Good to see the bmw looking better
I think Bautista will do better in the race today. He looked fast in the final part of the race

Vmax666
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Vmax666 »

Well done 5 titles
Who would have thought after the start to the year he would have wrapped it up with 2 rounds to go
Bad luck ducati maybe next year

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Fingernails
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Fingernails »

Great to see Razgatlioglu win one. And, it was very far from being luck. I'm not sure what has happened with his ride - I would have thought that Kawasaki would be hanging on to him - but apart from Rea holding on to riders doesn't seem to be a strong point of WSBK teams.

Schwantz34
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Schwantz34 »

I believe it all stemmed from Toprak not being given one stint at the Suzuka 8 hrs when he teamed up with Rea and Haslam. I really think they've let a trick go there, did you see the way he slid into the long left shortly after the hairpin? Both wheels sliding at a fair lean angle :o

I really wish he'd stayed

Vmax666
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Vmax666 »

I think it’s better for him to move
He would always be in the shadow of rea
Not sure if I heard the interview right but did sofluaglu say that one of the oncu twins was coming to world ss
If so why?

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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Mikesbytes »

Schwantz34 wrote:I believe it all stemmed from Toprak not being given one stint at the Suzuka 8 hrs when he teamed up with Rea and Haslam
That's what I read. Could also be that he is now in a bigger team - more chance of podiums

How do you think Lowes will go on the Kawasaki next to Rea?
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Fingernails
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Re: WSBK 2019

Post by Fingernails »

Mikesbytes wrote: That's what I read. Could also be that he is now in a bigger team - more chance of podiums
There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the Kawasaki he's on now. I'm not convinced that the Yamaha will give him a better chance of wins, but we'll see. I have fully caught up with the races now, and see that Razgatlioglu won not one but two!
How do you think Lowes will go on the Kawasaki next to Rea?
I predict that he will be yet another Kawasaki rider overshadowed by Rea. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong

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