WSBK silly season to start?

Talk about the World Superbike series run by FGSport. Including World Superbikes, World Supersport, European Superstock, etc.
bikermike
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WSBK silly season to start?

Post by bikermike »

https://www.crash.net/wsbk/news/901408/ ... sykes-exit

Sykes leaving Kawasaki


Presumably it won't be that silly.

I wonder where Sykes will end up. Brave move to leave Kawasaki. He must be seriously fed-up to do that

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JanBros
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by JanBros »

bikermike wrote:
I wonder where Sykes will end up. Brave move to leave Kawasaki. He must be seriously fed-up to do that
I would also be fed-up having a teammate I can not follow :twisted:

and you presume it is his descision ?
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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Apparently Haslam going to be Rea's team-mate, nice to see him back in the world series (where I think he deserves to be) but he will have his work cut out.

Any hint on where Sykes will end up? There seems to be a shortage of other top rides.
That's interesting - I did read a rumour a while ago that VDM was one of the riders that was being lined up for the 2nd Petronas Yamaha ride.

But, as is the way at the moment, being a WSBK & 8 hour winner seems to matter less than being 15 years old and from a central European country! /sarcasm

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Fingernails
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by Fingernails »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:Apparently Haslam going to be Rea's team-mate, nice to see him back in the world series (where I think he deserves to be) but he will have his work cut out.
BSB SPOILERS!!!


He's certainly doing very well in BSB. It's good that there is a way forward for riders in the national series.

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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by bikermike »

although I think the Haslams are all lovely people, I'm not sure I approve of him getting the job.

They have a (to say the least) proven winner in the garage. They don't need a development rider, or anyone to steady the ship.

wouldn't this be the time to get a new hotshot in?

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

At least with Haslam joining you have a clear No. 1 and No. 2 in the team.

Leon will be respectful of the collective team challenge, which if you remember was something Kawasaki had their fingers burnt with a few years ago when Baz was in the team and arguably cost Sykes a second WC.
With a young rider that would be more of a concern (although agree it would be nice to give one of the younger up and coming riders from BSB a shot).

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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by bikermike »

I wonder if Dani could even reach over a WSB bike? :D

I'd forgotten about the Baz incident - I can see that making them think twice. But I think if WSBK is to carve a niche for itself, it needs to make sure it doesn't get the reputation for being an old folks' home (yes, I know VR is 107 and still not doing badly, but he is very much the exception).

I like Haslam, and I'm sure he has the pedigree to do well at WSBK - but he's never going to rip it up. Whilst Kawasaki are in there to win, and are entirely entitled to do so, I think for the good of the sport, they should be obliged to make their 2nd choice a bit wilder

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I think it has been a GP-old folks home for some time now (thinking back to Barros, Biaggi etc.) Guess that's a consequence of having far too many good riders and not enough bikes for them in GPs.

Think a lot of the problem now is from Rea being in the series and making it a done deal - he really is something special and should be in GPs. If you take him out of the points rankings then it's a hell of a lot closer.

bikermike
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by bikermike »

well, he's doing his best to impress in the right shop window isn't he?

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WorldSBK
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by WorldSBK »

With Sykes leaving Kawasaki and Chaz Davies not sure he wants to stay with the new Ducati V4 ... that's two riders on the market ... unless my dream becomes true with BMW coming back with a factory team ... 8-)
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kenup283
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by kenup283 »

BMW so have a really good bike and one they made in short order. But seems their approach to Motorsport in general, same for cars, that they show up prove they have the goods to be there and then bail out before dumping a whole fortune into getting that last extra rung.

As for riders generally, just thinking historically through 80’s into 90’s lots of the greats i can think of were superbike champions in their respective home countries before coming to GP and jumping straight into the 500 class and doing very well of not dominating. We often look back on these riders and point to their dirt track backgrounds but they equally and more overlooked were champions riding superbikes on pavement. Pushing limits of engines overpowering frames and tires overpowering available traction gave them the best of both.

I suppose in hindsight after the World Superbike series came along in the late 80’s that it put people ridding superbikes on a parallel path that led to WSBK more than it did GP. So countries with National series that we’re strong in superbike now led elsewhere and countries that were more lined up with the GP formats led to GP.

So Id say superbikes have been and can be an equally good development ground for GP as well as an old folks home :)

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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by Mikesbytes »

Melandri out, Bautista in and on the V4

https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/1 ... -wsbk-ride
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WorldSBK
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by WorldSBK »

So that leaves us with Sykes, Melandri, Laverty and Baz who are still without a bike for 2019.
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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by Mikesbytes »

I read somewhere that Melandri is linked with a new Yamaha team that is upgrading from supersport, don't remember who
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WorldSBK
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by WorldSBK »

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bikermike
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by bikermike »

It's an interesting side effect of racers getting fitter and racing being safer. There's a bit of "bed-blocking" going on - there are probably 1.5 grids-worth of proven competent MotoGP riders who are fit and able to ride.
If you are a team boss who wants to get results and finance, a reliable "star" name will be a better bet than an up-and-coming. As this pool of riders increases, they start to filter down and fill up seats at WSBK, and then in the national series. Then you add the greater pool at each level with the same reasons, and it gets mighty hard to get new faces onto seats.
Maybe an age-cap for teams? (with a derogation for Rossi and Shakey Byrne (if he comes back)...)

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Can I ask what would be the grounds for the age cap and how would it improve the racing?

I think it's bad enough in GPs in the small class, I still miss the days of career small-bike riders (Cechinellos, Locatelli, Gresini, Ueda, Sakata etc.) who could make a name for themselves as jockeys. And it was a good way of measuring just how good the youth and up and comers were if they could beat those guys. Rather than those series simply being seen as a feeder series to GPs.

Only place I think it has worth is in junior national series (or the likes of Red Bull & talent cups) which are expressly designed for helping to nuture young talent. And I can't think of a single other sport that introduces artificial limits against talent/ability.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by Mikesbytes »

At 36 years old I'm suspecting that they are expecting to be a race winner straight away. Its not like they are nurturing an up and coming rider
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bikermike
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by bikermike »

The (IMO correct) supposition from MikesBytes is why I (only semi-seriously suggested it).
They way it could improve racing is to force series to higher younger racers.

As I postulated, there are a lot of MotoGP-quality riders who have no MotoGP rides (because they aren't quite the very best). In the past riders were usually broken by injury/old age/excessive partying to create gaps for new riders too come through. Instead now, we have not-quite-good-enough MotoGP riders who are keen for a ride. They bring sponsorship and are known quantities, so for WSBK teams (and national-SB teams below on a knock-on) they are an easier bet for doing what teams want to do (win races and make it work financially) than new riders. One new rider will be the next Rossi, but there will be plenty of others who'll be one-hit wonders. Although he's gone the other way, I'd say Kawasaki WSBK is the case in point (albeit I'd argue for an exception as it is a promotion) - there's no youth pipeline there. Whoever the next Rea/Marquez is, isn't going to be found by Kawa.

I agree that a blanket age cap as per moto2/3 etc is silly too.

My suggestion was a way of forcing teams to not pick all older riders and thus give new riders a chance. If you said the cumulative age of the team has to be, say, 55, you can't pick two 30+ yr olds. You can pick one old-stager as team leader, but then you have to pick a young gun. (If you wanted to be clever, then you could have deductions for late starters - say someone who didn't start at national level until he was 20 might get a few years added on the team's cap to balance the face he is less experienced. And any one who has Rossi in their team will need an extension otherwise the other rider will need to be 12...

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I see your point. I guess as far as the factories are concerned they probably don't care who their rider is (aside from the struggling teams that are financially depending on riders bringing money) and it's usually entirely performance/merit based. Marquez's freakish, once in a generation, level of success seems to have prompted factories to go trawling through the younger series in a deparate attempt to find someone with the 'x factor' talent that can consistently beat him.
So on GPs we have one extreme (with some really, really good production series riders overlooked - Rea, Davies to name but two - for the next fast 16-year old, in the hope that they will develop into a GP winner)
Then on the other extreme lots of old GP riders going to WSBK (although to be fair this has been going on for some years), and factories being overly cautious with established names.

I suppose the problem in WSBK is that route from WSS and national production series is blocked by those experienced riders - or rather the good rides are at least. I think honestly if you were a very good supersport or national series rider (BSB etc.) you would probably be better off trying to get into Moto2 and make a name for yourself from there. Probably why Jake Dixon from BSB is trying to do so.
Mikesbytes wrote:I read somewhere that Melandri is linked with a new Yamaha team that is upgrading from supersport, don't remember who
A new snippet I heard is that Wayne Rainey is trying to get Marco to go race in AMA - add some international credibility and big names to the series, also to help stop Toni Elias winning everything. (Source: Jules Ryder at a biking event thing I went to yesterday evening).

bikermike
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by bikermike »

You are right, it's gone two ways - Moto3 is hoovering up any 12 year old Spaniard who can turn a throttle and WSBK/BSB/etc is becoming a benefit ground for old MotoGP riders.

It's tricky whichever way you slice it - an age limit would be very hard to justify, as would sacking someone for being too old. And rightly so. And it's good that so many riders are still fit, healthy and willing enough to ride... but it has it's own consequences.


There are also a number of structural issues that don't help
- lack of non-world championship races where top riders race (no chance for a young rider to impress against a motoGP rider)
- super-specialisation of MotoGP bikes (you can't buy a YZR500 and get on the back of the grid, even if you did win the lottery)
- lack of clear progression/differentiation between MotoGP and WSBK

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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by Mikesbytes »

Yes the current path seems to be Spanish kids series -> Moto3 -> Moto2 -> MotoGP -> WSBK -> National series

If I was a parent wanting my kid to become a world champion I'd move to Spain, I wouldn't go to WSS or the 300cc? thingie class
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Mikesbytes
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by Mikesbytes »

Grid slots are filling;

Signed
Kawasaki Racing Team -Jonathan Rea, Leon Haslam
Aruba.it Ducati - Chaz Davies, Alvaro Bautista
Honda World Superbike Team - Leon Camier, Ryuichi Kiyonari
PATA Crescent Yamaha - Michael van der Mark, Alex Lowes
BMW World Superbike Team SMR - Tom Sykes, Markus Reiterberger
Puccetti Kawasaki Racing - Toprak Razgatlioglu
GRT Yamaha, Marco Melandri, Sandro Cortese
Barni Ducati - Michael Ruben Rinaldi

Available
Triple M Honda - 2 bikes
Team Pedercini Racing Kawasaki - 1 bike
Guandalini Yamaha - 1 bike
Team Go Eleven Kawasaki - 1 bike
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WorldSBK
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Re: WSBK silly season to start?

Post by WorldSBK »

Mikesbytes wrote:Grid slots are filling;

Signed
Kawasaki Racing Team -Jonathan Rea, Leon Haslam
Aruba.it Ducati - Chaz Davies, Alvaro Bautista
Honda World Superbike Team - Leon Camier, Ryuichi Kiyonari
PATA Crescent Yamaha - Michael van der Mark, Alex Lowes
BMW World Superbike Team SMR - Tom Sykes, Markus Reiterberger
Puccetti Kawasaki Racing - Toprak Razgatlioglu
GRT Yamaha, Marco Melandri, Sandro Cortese
Barni Ducati - Michael Ruben Rinaldi

Available
Triple M Honda - 2 bikes
Team Pedercini Racing Kawasaki - 1 bike
Guandalini Yamaha - 1 bike
Team Go Eleven Kawasaki - 1 bike

Available racers:

Loris Baz
Xavi Fores
Eugene Laverty
Jordi Torres
Lorenzo Savadori
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