Ducati V4

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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Rick650 on Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:44 am

Great top end, Davies says solid under brakes, Bautista only 0.3 off Rae.
If the Panigale V4R can work over race distance I see many wins in its future.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:43 pm

DucV4/Bautista is looking like it has the potential to challenge Kawa/Rea

The facts;
1. only 0.3 from Rea on the first time on the bike
2. faster than team mate who is a dam good rider and is familiar with the tyres

Other stuff;
1. compared with the MotoGP bike the DucV4 is gutless, so Bautista is able to ride around this limitation on his first outing
2. competitors are quoting that the DucV4 is 10kph faster. What hasn't been stated is whether this 10kph as at the cost of something else
3. the track is a disaster with puddles on racing lines and surface breaking up. So not 100% a reflection of typical racing conditions

Prediction (based on almost no real info :) )
2019 - Bautista for race wins
2020 - Bautista to fight for the world championship
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby WorldSBK on Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:40 pm

Mikesbytes wrote:DucV4/Bautista is looking like it has the potential to challenge Kawa/Rea

Prediction (based on almost no real info :) )
2019 - Bautista for race wins
2020 - Bautista to fight for the world championship


What do you think about Chaz Davies ?
He fought well in 2018. Will he be able to fight for the championship ?
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:25 am

It wouldn't surprise me that it was a Rea/Davies/Bautista fight for 2020

If we could accurately predict then there would be no point watching/following the championship

Day 2 of the test has Rea killing it and has brought Lowes into play but 0.6 behind. Haslam, Bautista, Davies, Van der Mark are the best of the rest and even Melandri is only 0.2 behind that group
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:28 am

Foggy drumming up Bautista as being a challenger to Rea. Also states that the V2 was good enough to win the world championship for the last 3 years but didn't have good enough riders and therefor indirectly bags Davies, ie they are bagging their own current rider

https://www.motorsport.com/wsbk/news/bautista-can-beat-rea-fogarty/4314677/
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:39 am

Supercharged Kawasaki vs Ducati MotoGP. http://www.mcnews.com.au/kawasaki-h2r-vs-motogp-bike/

Shows how far the MotoGP version of the Ducati is in front of a street bike if even supercharging can't bridge the gap

Of course its not a MotoGP bike that Ducati is racing in WSBK 19
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Tourn46 on Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:57 pm

Mikesbytes wrote:Of course its not a MotoGP bike that Ducati is racing in WSBK 19


Kawasaki aren't racing a H2R either :P
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby bikermike on Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:06 am

It would explain a lot if they were! :shock:

What amazed me about that test was the sheer amount of power the MotoGP bike is putting down. I would have expected it to leave an H2 behind in on a circuit - when stopping and turning are as important, but to whoop it in a straight line is quite something.

Is it racing season yet?

I think Kawa will still shade it this season

1) a brand new bike usually needs a shakedown
2) Kawa have a very settled team with a clear #1 rider. Ducati have just changed that too - will they fight each other not the Kawa


I'll be interested to see where D'alligna (sp?)'s attention lies this year. If they don't do so well in the early part of MotoGP season, you can see them focussing more on the WSBK
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby kenup283 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:27 am

Intresting articles but their estimates on the H2 are off... quicker 1/4 miles times are possible than they predict from the stock bike. Bolt on a swingarm (slightly longer) and the H2 takes half a second off what they predict for the GP bike with the stock motor on pump gas.

Only saying it's also about assumption of centers of gravity. This can be seen in the straight line portion of the graphs where the speed is increasing linearly. This constant rate of acceleration is a wheelie limit based soley on the bikes geormerty not HP. There they doc the H2 to less than 1 g based on the graph they show, which assumes the designers of the H2 made its weight balance to the detriment of its accelartion, more so than other bikes on the market, which seems contrary to the bikes premiss.

As for Ducati in WSBK, the new bike is not really so new. This time a year ago we were reading about Casey Stoner putting it thru its paces, a task that later in the year we saw Pirro and GP test team take up thereafter. Gigi has remarked that part of plan is to align the platforms and increase similarities betwn SBK and GP programs so more staff can work back and forth. So I agree with your thoughts that we are likely to see more effort from what we know as the factory there, there has already.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:58 am

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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Fingernails on Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:39 am

The final practice with Rea a second ahead of everyone else looks a bit ominous.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:50 am

Explanation as to why the V4 has had the rev limit set to 16,350. They are quoting that maximum power is at 15,250

http://www.mcnews.com.au/worldsbk-rev-limits-with-technical-director-scott-smart/

I can't see it lasting the Duc is clearly faster on the straight and most likely will receive a lower rev limit, which can happen during the season under the current rules
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby kenup283 on Thu Feb 21, 2019 8:32 am

Reposting this in this thread since I think may have been buried in another.

The RPM limit can be changed, as has long been the case with whatever the performance balancing metric has been be it weight, air restrictors, or now revs, but at the rate of change and frequency specified in the rules Ducati will have their advantage for the better part of the next two seassons.

The big looses are Honda who due to their longstanding choice to tune their road bikes for broader low range make their peak power at a lower RPM and hence a lower rev limit in the superbike rules than the others. Only a complete new engine can get a new rev limit assigned, updates and modifications do not.

Mikesbytes wrote:
How do the specs of the new Ducati compare with the competitors? Yes I know there's a lot more to it than specs?

http://www.mcnews.com.au/2019-ducati-panigale-v4-r/



I found the following an intresting statment particularly in how it applies to the initial rev limit setting per the rules.

"221hp is on offer at 15,250rpm, while a full-racing Ducati Performance exhaust by Akrapovič boosts power to 234hp at 15,500rpm."

Rules excerpt under Perfirmance Balancing:

"The initial rev limit will be the dynamometer measured rev limit of 3rd & 4th gear averaged, plus 3% or 1100 rpm above the dyno measured max horsepower rpm of a production machine, whichever is lower."


So 15,500x1.03= almost 16k ! While not cheating this will put them way ahead of the other 4cyl machines who the highest are currently at 14.7k RPM and even more room above Kawi who's at 14,100 rpm currently.

With increment adjustments only after 3 rounds and in 250 rpm increments they will be able to keep that advantage over a 13 rounds callendar for the entire first year and half way into the next season after that just to come to parity with where the kawasaki is at now.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Rick650 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:35 am

Any theories on why Bautista's V4 is so fast and the others are not yet?
It seems hard to go past Bautista being quality, fit, happy, loving PI and having experience with a variety of GP Ducati V4s.
As a result he is rode the Panigale V4 closer to it's awesome potential than the others

We should probably wait to see the performance at more stop start tracks before declaring the Panigale V4 the rocket ship that it proved to be at PI. Maybe riders will want to swap all those revs for more mid range at other circuits.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:34 am

I'll have a stab;
1. Bautista is really good at PI. Last year for example he stepped up to the Ducati factory team, riding a bike he was not familiar with and took it to 4th, only a little behind Dovi
2. Davies is experiencing back issues, we saw him behind an independent Ducati rider
3. The other Ducati riders are not in the factory team

Will we see the RPM of the Ducati cut by 250rpm after 3 races (or even before). I suspect so, but only race direction really know
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby herbs on Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:39 am

Bautista was just on it. He won't brain them like that every race. As long as he doesn't go back to his old days of Alvaro the torpedo.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Rick650 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:06 pm

Much harder to torpedo others when you are leading.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Fingernails on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:51 pm

Rick650 wrote:Much harder to torpedo others when you are leading.


:D

My comment on the races: wow!

We'll see where they are next race, of course. But this was absolute dominance.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Tourn46 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:31 pm

So... We go from one person dominating, to another person dominating... Am I missing how this is exciting?
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Vmax666 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:40 pm

I thought the races were good to watch
Yes 1 ducati cleared off but the fight for the other podiums was good to watch
I am looking forward to tracks where tyre wear is not a problem
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Fingernails on Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:00 pm

Tourn46 wrote:So... We go from one person dominating, to another person dominating... Am I missing how this is exciting?


I found that a new V4 Ducati and a new (to WSBK) rider hitting the ground not just running but dominating interesting from a technical and 'silly season' point of view.

However, if this continues through the season, then the novelty will wear off.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby herbs on Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:28 pm

The sprint race was good. The battle between bautista and Rea was all out. Though the best racing of the weekend was the Australian superbike races. That was nuts.
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:24 am

Mikesbytes wrote:I'll have a stab;
1. Bautista is really good at PI. Last year for example he stepped up to the Ducati factory team, riding a bike he was not familiar with and took it to 4th, only a little behind Dovi
2. Davies is experiencing back issues, we saw him behind an independent Ducati rider
3. The other Ducati riders are not in the factory team

Will we see the RPM of the Ducati cut by 250rpm after 3 races (or even before). I suspect so, but only race direction really know

4. Bautista is very good at preserving the rear tyre, it wouldn't surprise me to see him repeat this at other high wear tracks
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Mikesbytes on Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:14 pm

There's a gallery of photo's of Troy Bayliss's ASBK Ducati V4 at the bottom of this page

http://www.mcnews.com.au/desmosport-ducati-panigale-v4-r/
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Re: Ducati V4

Postby Fingernails on Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:03 pm

If the Ducati V4 is this competitive in WSBK, will Scott Redding be in with a good basis for a championship challenge in BSBK? Will the fact that they're working on the bike in WSBK and other championships mean that they'll have some transferable knowledge for other series? Or will the different regulations prevent any useful knowledge transfer?
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