Triumph 765cc triples?

Debate and discussion about the feeder classes of MotoGP, including the fabulous 250s, the thrilling 125s, and the madness that is the Red Bull Rookies
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Japhrodisiac
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Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by Japhrodisiac »

Glad to see someone sign on as the new engine supplier for Moto2, but to me this seems like an odd fit, at least in terms of displacement.

A 750 or 765cc 3cyl engine seems to be stretching the concept of a middle ground to me, because it is likely that the engines will make north of 150hp, as a step up from a 55hp Moto3 bike, this seems like quite a jump.

I'm 'at risk' for becoming a grumpy old man, lol, but i remember when 750cc was a big bike, now we have 900cc bikes offered as 'middleweights', while F1 and most other motorsports (and passenger vehicles) are going the smaller/more efficient route, this feels like a throwback move.

Cobbett
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Re: Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by Cobbett »

I agree. I was scratching my head a bit when I read this.

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Fingernails
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Re: Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by Fingernails »

I can't see the problem myself. The Honda Moto2 engines produced less power than was initially expected, if I remember correctly. The Triumph engine is said to produce 160hp, which is a big jump up from Moto3. But, assuming that MotoGP engines make about 250hp, the jump from Moto2 to MotoGP is still the largest in terms of absolute horsepower.

The engine change will give other manufacturers a chance to catch up to Kalex.

kenup283
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Re: Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by kenup283 »

I don't see 160Hp, so far all I've seen are triple which is comparable to 675R's.
I'd like to see the middle weight class carry on. Its in such a decline that Honda's bailing out and probably others will follow.
I suppose all the gadgetry that's been coming out lately on the 1000's has given buyers less concern with the big bikes :?: and the buyers just aren't there anymore.

Japhrodisiac
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Re: Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by Japhrodisiac »

The problem with true middleweights, and especially how the supersport 600's have developed is that it costs the same to make a 1000cc bike. So you have to cut corners on suspension and brakes etc to get the costs down, otherwise ppl will only buy a 600 for insurance reasons. Since the industry is undergoing a huge shift anyway, manufacturers are focusing on entry level bikes, and the 600 supersport doesn't fit in anywhere really, it is expert level machinery with expert level pricing and the die hards will just buy the 1000 anyway. It used to be that 600's would outsell everything else, but that's not the case anymore.

The 675 is a claimed 128hp stock, so it depends on the level of kit they do with the Moto2 spec version. The Hondas had ported heads, cams ecu and a few other bits from the WSS HRC catalogue, so if there is a similar upspec process with the larger displacement (756cc?) Triumph then 150hp+ is a reasonable target imo

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by Mikesbytes »

What other choices do they have?
My signature isn't particularly interesting

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Tourn46
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Re: Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by Tourn46 »

Mikesbytes wrote:What other choices do they have?
You mean suppliers?

I didn't see anywhere a list of companies who went for the deal come to think of it.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by Mikesbytes »

Tourn46 wrote:
Mikesbytes wrote:What other choices do they have?
You mean suppliers?

I didn't see anywhere a list of companies who went for the deal come to think of it.
From the info I saw I don't think anyone else is interested.

The new EU emission laws means new development costs and as a 600 costs almost as much as a 1000 to manufacture its not seen as a profitable sector with the end result being that there is only going to be one 600 available (I forget which one)

Another option would be to make the class an oversized Moto3 format ie a 500cc twin based on similar or the same rules applied to keeping Moto3 costs down. I'm sure that Dorna/FIM have investigated this option and put the feelers out to see who would be interested and found it not to be a goer
My signature isn't particularly interesting

Japhrodisiac
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Re: Triumph 765cc triples?

Post by Japhrodisiac »

In the war between the competing goals of an interesting prototype for the middle class, and keeping costs down, costs won. Dorna even started their own company to rebuild/maintain the Honda 600 engines to lower costs from outsourcing that previously. It's likely that Yamaha and Kawasaki will be following Honda's lead shortly in discontinuing their supersport 600 bikes, so little interest there I'm sure. So, it has to be a production middleweight, likely European, KTM coming out with a mid-sized twin, MV also makes a nice little triple, but other than that, BMW? Not too many great choices around since most of these power plants were designed with beginner and/or adventure sport platforms in mind.

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