Rabat in 2014...

Debate and discussion about the feeder classes of MotoGP, including the fabulous 250s, the thrilling 125s, and the madness that is the Red Bull Rookies
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Tourn46
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Rabat in 2014...

Post by Tourn46 »

Anyone think the competition in the class has all moved on to MotoGP and Rabat has inherited an easy year?

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JanBros
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by JanBros »

he will definitly not have an easy year, just like Pol didn't have a walk-over last year.
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Tourn46
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by Tourn46 »

JanBros wrote:he will definitly not have an easy year, just like Pol didn't have a walk-over last year.
I don't know, it just seems like the main competition has left the building. He finished second yesterday when unable to use 1st gear.

I can't help but feel if the same grid as last year was there, he wouldn't be favourite.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I think you're going to see a lot of other riders step up to the plate - let's not forget Rabat just got beaten by a Rookie in the 2nd race. If Zarco hadn't made a mistake you would have had to put him on the podium, and the same for Simeon who was looking very strong. It's a damned competitive class, what did Josh Herrin say? In the States you had 5-6 top guys racing each other, in the Moto2 class it's 30. The bike equality makes it a much more level playing field also.

Although yes I still think Tito has a good chance - but, that would be the same even if Redding and Pol were back on the grid. Last year he had a tremendous pace once the fuel loads went down and was usually the quickest guy on track by the end of the race. The few DNFs cost him, plus perhaps a bit of consistency.

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JanBros
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by JanBros »

as said before : no walkover.
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Want to make a follow on post Tourn? :D

Interesting what Scott Redding was saying on the MotoGP Tonight show - Rabat is extremely fast, but the trick is to get in front of him, and start messing with his rhythm so he starts panicking. He also intimated that he was maybe not as strong psychologically as he could be.

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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by smAshmoto »

I'd agree with the OP.

The only consistent opponent hes had all year has been Kallio. He's had fleeting dices with Vinales, Aegerter, West and Luthi but no one has been able to bring any serious pressure to Rabat or the Marc VDS squad all year.
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oldboyonrgv
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by oldboyonrgv »

Also MOTO2 is becoming the forgotten class, looks like the trend is going to be MOT3 or Supersport - straight to MOTOGP - why - because both of those classes are technically closer to MOTOGP than MOTO2, its all very well saying that MOTO2 is all about the rider - but they also have to learn the technical aspect so that they can give feedback, its about time MOTO2 was opened up more....

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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by Hanuman »

oldboyonrgv wrote:Also MOTO2 is becoming the forgotten class, looks like the trend is going to be MOT3 or Supersport - straight to MOTOGP - why - because both of those classes are technically closer to MOTOGP than MOTO2, its all very well saying that MOTO2 is all about the rider - but they also have to learn the technical aspect so that they can give feedback, its about time MOTO2 was opened up more....
Supersport is closer to MotoGP than Moto2?
Supersport teaches you the 'technical aspect' better than Moto2?
OK.

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Grahluk
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by Grahluk »

Moto2 is only in a lull due to the talent presently in the field. It was quite exciting a couple years ago when Marquez, Pol, Redding, & Iannone were duking it out there. They all moved up & all the present Moto2 front runners save Vinales have been kicking around the lower classes for some time. The bike formula has been stable. There's nothing wrong with it. In fact it's everything people complain about MotoGP answered. All have relatively competitive machinery, it's more financially sustainable than MotoGP or Moto3, it's minimal electronics showcasing rider skill, etc. The only possible gripe is that the motor under the skins isn't prototype exotica. Sure in some tech porn way I'd love to to see super high strung 500cc twins as the logical progression of 250/single>500/twin>1000/4. That however wouldn't do anything to spice up the racing but would do loads to drive the Moto2 costs into the stratosphere. What would help Moto2 is to not poach the hot Moto3 riders to go straight to MotoGP where they're going to get chewed up & spit out.

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Tumi
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by Tumi »

Grahluk wrote:Moto2 is only in a lull due to the talent presently in the field. It was quite exciting a couple years ago when Marquez, Pol, Redding, & Iannone were duking it out there. They all moved up & all the present Moto2 front runners save Vinales have been kicking around the lower classes for some time.
I agree with Moto2 racers being mostly old hands but the class has not become slower. I chose 4 races at random (apparently dry races because times were about comparable) and here are winner's times and average speeds from 2012, 2013 and 2014.
Qatar:
40.34 159.1 40.31 159.2 40.20 160.0
Mugello:
39.52 165.7 39.53 165.6 39.45 166.2
Sachsenring
41.32 153.7 41.19 154.5 41.12 155.0
Brno
41.19 156.9 41.11 157.3 41.05 157.8

These races are also quite comparable as they were reasonably tight every year - in 2012 winner's margin over 2nd was over 2 seconds in one of these races, two races in 2013 and one in 2014. One could say the races have been more dull and/or less eventful but the class has not become slower. At least those 2014 races were faster compared to 2013 races than 2013 races compared to 2012 ones.

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Grahluk
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by Grahluk »

Tumi wrote:
Grahluk wrote:Moto2 is only in a lull due to the talent presently in the field. It was quite exciting a couple years ago when Marquez, Pol, Redding, & Iannone were duking it out there. They all moved up & all the present Moto2 front runners save Vinales have been kicking around the lower classes for some time.
I agree with Moto2 racers being mostly old hands but the class has not become slower. I chose 4 races at random (apparently dry races because times were about comparable) and here are winner's times and average speeds from 2012, 2013 and 2014.
Qatar:
40.34 159.1 40.31 159.2 40.20 160.0
Mugello:
39.52 165.7 39.53 165.6 39.45 166.2
Sachsenring
41.32 153.7 41.19 154.5 41.12 155.0
Brno
41.19 156.9 41.11 157.3 41.05 157.8

These races are also quite comparable as they were reasonably tight every year - in 2012 winner's margin over 2nd was over 2 seconds in one of these races, two races in 2013 and one in 2014. One could say the races have been more dull and/or less eventful but the class has not become slower. At least those 2014 races were faster compared to 2013 races than 2013 races compared to 2012 ones.
Nice analysis.

There's still a chance this season could get tasty. A Marc VDS team mate duel to Valencia looks possible. That could get dramatic.

kenup283
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by kenup283 »

Good comparison. It shows the rules are working if winning pace is stable. The thought I had looking at this was, have they thinned out behind the leader.

So I took same races and looked at the time spread acrossthe, top three, top five, and top 10. The idea being if you loose a pack of good riders (three or four) would it show in the finishing spreads.

EDIT: reformated data

Image

Looking through some of the scater, I think it supports that the field from 1st to 3rd has larger gaps now, and back to 5th but to lesser extent. Back to 10th more or less unchanged.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Interesting stats there Kenup283, thanks for taking the time to compile them.

It will be interesting next year if Marc VDS go to the MotoGP class. I've read that their budget is really high, a lot more than most of the teams (with the exception of Pons), and having money to throw at anything will always make your machine more competitive, even in a class so tightly controlled from a technical perspective.

If that move happens, wonder if we will see closer gaps back down the field again (and, a few more winners?)

Regarding this topic that performance from Rabat at Silverstone has to be one of the rides of his career for Rabat. Absolutely brilliant ride, he looked like he was absolutely on-edge at the end of the race.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Bloody brilliant ride by Rabat for the end of the year but.. what the hell happened on the final straight of Valencia?!

Actually, I think I know what happened, and it's something that Sean Emmett will be familar with (for anyone who remembers what I am talking about) :D

Poor guy I can't imagine how that must have felt, although I guess if you are going to have something like that happen, then the best time is when you already have the championship wrapped up..

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Fingernails
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by Fingernails »

Not all the competition left for MotoGP. Nakagami left for the mid/back of the field :(

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Rabat in 2014...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

God-knows what the hell happened to Nakagami last year. I don't know how you can go from competing for race wins and five second places to struggling in mid-pack for single points.

I have a personal theory that losing to De Angelis at San Marino broke him mentally. I think he wanted that race so much, to win for Tomizawa, and perhaps something snapped in him after that in terms of confidence. Believe that was the last time he was near the front. I've got absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back that up though, so it's probably just complete bollocks! :)

Whatever the reason, I suppose it shows how competitive Moto2 is - if you are off the pace by even a fraction there are a dozen guys that will come past you.

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