MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

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Mikesbytes
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MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Mikesbytes »

We haven't finished discussing the previous round and here's another one. Same track as last weekend. Haven't found the entry list but I understand that MM isn't racing
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Fingernails
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Fingernails »

Pol is really, really, going to want to win this. I think he's going to go all out win it or bin it, and the latter is more likely.

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Antipodean
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Antipodean »

This will be a cracker if it stays sunny. Dovi v Miller v Rins v Espargaro v Binder v Mir. Throw in some old man Vale and the Top Gun if luck follows them, Nakagami could be there if he profits from a couple of others coming out of contention. Oliveira is the same. Morbidelli and Fabio probably not on for podiums but they'll get good points.

Looking forward to it!

Imagine how intensely frustrating it must be for Marc to watch all these guys tussling within a second of each other.

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Fingernails
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Fingernails »

Top five riders and three manufacturers within 0.102 of each other. But, it is only FP1.

Does anyone else read the 'Grand Prix of Styria' and auto-correct it in their mind to 'Grand Prix of Syria'?

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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Antipodean »

Fingernails wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:24 pm
Grand Prix of Syria'?
Formula 1 money funds Syria racetrack near ‘slaughterhouse’ prison

It would be warm in November 😅

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CLX
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by CLX »

Possible pit lane start for Zarco, I wish I knew what this new evidence against him was.

I just hope it's a safe uneventful weekend, to be honest.

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kenup283
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by kenup283 »

Entire field within a second! and the pace up front ain’t slow either.

p4p1
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by p4p1 »

CLX wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:56 pm
Possible pit lane start for Zarco, I wish I knew what this new evidence against him was.

I just hope it's a safe uneventful weekend, to be honest.
That’s the question really. Atm the evidence seems to be because Rossi said he should be punished. Is this the first time the rider in front has been punished for being rear ended?

Schwantz34
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Schwantz34 »

I'm seeing an inability to control emotion in Quartararo that I think will be an Achilles heel in a championship fight.

bikermike
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by bikermike »

I think the usual issue is that the nastiness of the accident makes people look for fault. If they'd just ended up in the gravel trap, there'd be nothing but swearing and rude gestures.

But yes, it's tricky.
I can see a number of principles at play - it's the duty of the overtaker to make a safe overtake (when does the overtake end? wheel in front? back wheel past front wheel? a safe distance in front?). But once you are in front, you are in front. How are you supposed to see? Do we need mirrors on racebikes now?

I hate doing out-braking overtakes into corners on trackdays as you don't want to shut the door hard on the rider behind. In a race, short of actually brake-testing all's fair.

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Fingernails
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Fingernails »

bikermike wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:28 pm
But yes, it's tricky.
I can see a number of principles at play - it's the duty of the overtaker to make a safe overtake (when does the overtake end? wheel in front? back wheel past front wheel? a safe distance in front?). But once you are in front, you are in front. How are you supposed to see? Do we need mirrors on racebikes now?
On the road it's the duty of the overtaker to make a safe overtake, but I think that racing is different. The person being overtaken has to play their part which includes leaving room when someone is already overtaking.

What I'm hearing a lot now is that riders say that they can't see that anyone is there. No matter how it happens, this needs to be fixed. Riders can turn their heads and look, and if that means that they get overtaken where if they had just moved over they might have stayed ahead so be it. If people are saying 'I didn't see him - I didn't know he was there' then that isn't good enough.

I bet if there were swingeing penalties for that sort of thing that riders would work out how to be aware that people are visible.

In the modern world it wouldn't have to be mirrors. It could easily be a camera systems which shows on the dashboard where other riders are around them. Or something like that.

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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by bikermike »

Fingernails wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:55 pm
On the road it's the duty of the overtaker to make a safe overtake, but I think that racing is different. The person being overtaken has to play their part which includes leaving room when someone is already overtaking.

What I'm hearing a lot now is that riders say that they can't see that anyone is there. No matter how it happens, this needs to be fixed. Riders can turn their heads and look, and if that means that they get overtaken where if they had just moved over they might have stayed ahead so be it. If people are saying 'I didn't see him - I didn't know he was there' then that isn't good enough.

I bet if there were swingeing penalties for that sort of thing that riders would work out how to be aware that people are visible.

In the modern world it wouldn't have to be mirrors. It could easily be a camera systems which shows on the dashboard where other riders are around them. Or something like that.
Yeah, but you absolutely not meant to look behind you - that's track riding 101. You tape up/remove mirrors on track for a reason. this is my point - how do you know when you are past someone (to some extent you just do, but also you rely on the person being overtaken to accept the pass - they can see what is going on).
If you are mm from the bike in front and mm from the bike behind you haven't the time to be looking round or you'll go into the back of the bike in front. You rely on the person behind to be sensible too.

Fundamentally, racing is not safe, you don't leave enough room to safely deal with eventualities.

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Fingernails
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Fingernails »

We see riders looking around to see who is following them all the time. We see riders being stood up by other riders that they know are inside them all the time.

However it's done, riders need to know who is around them sufficiently so that they don't smash into each other.

The accidents that have been notable over the past couple of weeks are when someone has gone wide, and is returning to take up the line. These are specific situations and I don't think it's unreasonable that riders take more care in that specific situation.

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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by CLX »

Schwantz34 wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:27 pm
I'm seeing an inability to control emotion in Quartararo that I think will be an Achilles heel in a championship fight.
Where?
I saw him complain of the tyres, but not much else.

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Tourn46
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Tourn46 »

p4p1 wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:17 pm
CLX wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:56 pm
Possible pit lane start for Zarco, I wish I knew what this new evidence against him was.

I just hope it's a safe uneventful weekend, to be honest.
That’s the question really. Atm the evidence seems to be because Rossi said he should be punished. Is this the first time the rider in front has been punished for being rear ended?
:lol:

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Tourn46
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Tourn46 »

CLX wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:41 pm
Schwantz34 wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:27 pm
I'm seeing an inability to control emotion in Quartararo that I think will be an Achilles heel in a championship fight.
Where?
I saw him complain of the tyres, but not much else.
Been a lot of arm waving already... but I kinda like seeing the emotion. There's a lot of drones in modern day sport, I am glad he isn't.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Yes I like that Fabio wears his emotions on his sleeves. Real youthful enthusiasm with him still (and at least it goes both ways)

Pol definitely looking very determined - will he be able to put it all together this time?
Quatararo looks like he is still having trouble getting the bike stopped. Simon Crafar noticed he has gone with the larger mass Brembo brakes this time (which he didn't last time).
Nakagami making the 2020 Honda look quite poor (or the 2019 one look good!)

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Fingernails
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Fingernails »

I've just tuned in to catch up on quali. I see that I missed a whole lot of excitement in Moto3 qualifying when Masia rode his battered bike back to the pits with no fairing, no gloves, and leaking oil on which I think another rider fell off on.

Surely he must get some sort of penalty for that .. oh, as I type that Masia has been ejected from Q2. But, surely more than that. I don't want penalties all over the place for everything, but some things just seem silly. Lack of gloves when riding a battered bike leaking oil?

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Fingernails
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Fingernails »

Just putting this here now before I see what happens.

At 6:10 left in Q2, is it possible that we could have two 2019 bikes qualifying on the front row?

(I know that Zarco will be starting from the pitlane.)

EDT: Yes!

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CLX
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by CLX »

I have more faith in Mir winning than Pol. Either result would be terrific.

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Fingernails
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Fingernails »

I would like to see any of Pol, Takaaki, or Joan win. Always good to see someone get their first win. Imagine if they form the lead group and then duke it out all race long.

bikermike
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by bikermike »

Do they leave a gap where Zarco would be, or does everyone else move up one spot?

mastercraftx1
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by mastercraftx1 »

Everyone will move up a spot.

Should be an interesting race. Lots of riders with good pace. Hopefully some good battles.

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Antipodean
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Antipodean »

mastercraftx1 wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:11 am
Should be an interesting race. Lots of riders with good pace. Hopefully some good battles.
Yes, it's super tight at the top - love it!

I think that with racing this close the starting positions are far less indicative of race pace speed than when there was a clearer division between alien riders and their spaceship bikes vs "everyone else". Having a front row position in the first lap might get you a little ahead of the first corner crush if you are lucky, but it truly feels like anyone in the top ten could easily be on the podium this weekend (or the top 15 excluding Lecuona).

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Mikesbytes
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Re: MotoGP R6 23-08 BMW M Grand Prix of Styria Red Bull Ring Spielberg

Post by Mikesbytes »

Rossi's penalty for the famous Marquez incident was to start from the back of the grid. I'm wondering why a pitlane start penalty and not the back of the grid?

The reshuffling of the grid has given Miller the inside of the row 2, a good start could see him first into the first corner..... followed by running wide and loosing about 6 places :)
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