Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
Schwantz34
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Schwantz34 »

Exactly, lots of differing viewpoints and at the end of the day only history will tell what the best course of action/ inaction was. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!!!!

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Mikesbytes »

There currently 17 people in hospital in Australia, 1 of which is on a ventilator. Most people are going about their normal lives and those that aren't will be from the 8th November. There's currently 156 infected people in Australia, about 100 of those are people in hotel quarantine having returned from overseas. There's a sensible way to manage the spread and that sensible method results in a better economy as there is less disruption in the long term.

Stay safe everyone
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Fingernails
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Fingernails »

Twinfan wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:30 pm
There are lots of alternative and counter view points and opinions out there to the musings in your post, and it's a real problem that OFCOM have stifled the media so those views don't get heard and debated rationally.

I won't get into them here as I tried that on the previous page and it didn't go down well with you. So I'm out, again, and will stay out this time ;)
Why should you be concerned if a viewpoint 'didn't go down well with [me]'. If you are able to defend your viewpoint with properly analysed facts, figures, and research (The 'papers published in peer reviewed journals' kind of research, not youtube videos) then why would you be concerned about how this goes down?

There are a lot of alternative viewpoints out there. However, not all of them are equal and even now it's possible to point out that some are much less likely than others. We have, for example, people still claiming that the virus doesn't exist, the virus is 'activated' by 5G phone networks for population control, that this is just a fraud so that the populace can be injected with a 'vaccine' which is actually mind control nanobots, and so on. Those are all views which a not insignificant percentage of the UK population hold.

These are clearly extreme examples and I'm not claiming that anyone here holds such views. (And I certainly hope none of you do). However, the people who hold these views consider them rational, and feel that the debate is being stifled and that their 'truth' is being suppressed.

What alternative viewpoints should be 'debated rationally'? And how is OFCOM stifling such debate?

Twinfan
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Twinfan »

Fingernails wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:42 am
What alternative viewpoints should be 'debated rationally'? And how is OFCOM stifling such debate?
When have you seen on TV a serious discussion and debate from anyone with an opposing view to Government policy? OFCOM are policing the UK media and you have to follow the government message:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... avirus.pdf

Alternative viewpoints from people such as Lord Sumpton, Sir Graham Brady, Charles Walker, Sunetra Gupta, Carl Heneghan, Karol Sikora, David Spiegelhalter and Mike Yeadon exist yet none of them get any air time. Look them up.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I suppose in most cases you end up with a scientific consensus on a topic - when most peer-reviewed investigation has resulted in what is most likely a correct explanation and course of action - and then that drives the public (and governmental) discourse on the best way to proceed.

Although broadcasters generally try and have discussions with 'both sides' they don't always do this - you didn't see anyone seriously talking about Covid being spread by 5G transmissions because that was obviously bollocks. The BBC gets flack for going 'both sides' with climate change coverage, because the scientific consensus is overwhelmingly in favour of man-made climate change being a thing, and giving a platform to an alternative point of view that actually serves to help underwhelm the message - and especially in that case where not responding in a certain way could lead to serious loss of life in the future.

So I think in the same way here you have to acknowledge the space that the UK and a lot of the EU and US are in - that they have f*cked up (an awful lot of people have died) and because of that drastic measures are needed to stop even more people getting sick and dying over the winter. If that means the loss of going out and socialising, that is a high price to pay and it's going to be a really bad couple of months, but it is what it is and it is less than the cost of the alternative.

Twinfan
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Twinfan »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 5:26 pm
So I think in the same way here you have to acknowledge the space that the UK and a lot of the EU and US are in - that they have f*cked up (an awful lot of people have died) and because of that drastic measures are needed to stop even more people getting sick and dying over the winter. If that means the loss of going out and socialising, that is a high price to pay and it's going to be a really bad couple of months, but it is what it is and it is less than the cost of the alternative.
I'd like to see the costings/workings for the total impact of the current or any of the alternative actions please, got any links? Something along the lines of the QUALY procedure NICE follow would be great.

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Fingernails
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Fingernails »

Twinfan wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:38 am
Fingernails wrote:
Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:42 am
What alternative viewpoints should be 'debated rationally'? And how is OFCOM stifling such debate?
When have you seen on TV a serious discussion and debate from anyone with an opposing view to Government policy? OFCOM are policing the UK media and you have to follow the government message:

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/ ... avirus.pdf

Alternative viewpoints from people such as Lord Sumpton, Sir Graham Brady, Charles Walker, Sunetra Gupta, Carl Heneghan, Karol Sikora, David Spiegelhalter and Mike Yeadon exist yet none of them get any air time. Look them up.
First, it's the whole job of OFCOM to police the UK media. It would only be a problem if they are mis-using their powers. I quote from your above link.
Broadcast content relating to the Coronavirus
We recognise that licensees will want to broadcast content relating to the Coronavirus and that dissemination of accurate and up-to-date information to audiences will be essential during the current situation. However, we remind all broadcasters of the significant potential harm that can be caused by material relating to the Coronavirus. This could include:

• Health claims related to the virus which may be harmful.

• Medical advice which may be harmful.

• Accuracy or material misleadingness in programmes in relation to the virus or public policy regarding it.
That in itself is a reasonable aim, and important in the current situation. To claim that there is an issue there would require evidence that OFCOM is mis-using that power, for political aims. To take the extreme example - and I am not suggesting you Twinfan or others here take such a view - those who believe that covid-19 does not exist and this is a fraud so that we can all be injected with mind-control micro-bots under the cover of a fake 'vaccine' will believe that their 'truth' is being improperly suppressed by OFCOM for political ends. To claim that OFCOM has actually improperly suppressed alternative views needs more evidence. Both that the alternative views are true and how OFCOM has suppressed them.

You give a long list of people you believe who do not appear in mainstream media. Since the first one you list is Lord Sumption, I'll look into what he has been claiming. First, you claim that these people are having their views suppressed and do not appear on the media. I found several examples of him being interviewed on the BBC, both television and radio, articles in The Times, etc. So, the claims of suppression of his opinion appear to be wrong for a start.

Now let's look into Lord Sumption's views. These tend to be legal views - e.g. that the government has no right to restrict individual liberties, and that people should be left to make their own decisions about risk. However, when I looked into these views further, there is certainly disagreement. In particular, when individual risk and societal risk overlap. Some who decides to go walk across Afghanistan alone causes little risk for other people. Someone who takes risk of catching an infectious disease causes risk not just for themselves but for others as well, and for society as a whole. I found discussion in places like here, here, and here.

I've looked into Sumption's interviews and publications, and he is claiming of dangers to our liberties from the restrictions imposed during lockdowns. However, these were typically publicised after the first lockdown. What we've seen is that those restrictions were certainly temporary, and the government was nothing if not over-eager to return our freedoms and publicise widely that they had done so. Hence, I feel that history since July has solidly proven Lord Sumption wrong. It doesn't matter if he has a 'fine legal mind' as many of those criticising him will say - he is warning against loss of freedoms under the cover of the pandemic, and certainly in the UK he has been proved wrong. The government is nothing if not over-eager to return freedoms, but it can't because the danger of disaster is too high.

Now, @TwinFan, you say that you'd like to see work on the economic and other damage done by lockdowns compared to the damage done by the virus. There has been some such work, here from the USA: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03 ... e-covid-19 The overall message is that even with longer lockdowns than we've had, the benefits of lockdowns outweigh the costs.

BTW: You mention a number of people that you claim are being suppressed. Other than Sumption, who is the person in your list who you think has the best argument? And, which argument(s) of theirs do you support?

Twinfan
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Twinfan »

I'm not getting into this with you. I don't like your tone and we clearly have very different viewpoints which neither of us will change.

Enjoy the rest of the MotoGP season :D

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I'm going to leave this discussion now guys as I know it's contentious. I'll just leave it with look after yourselves and the people near to you over the next few months and hope you keep safe.

Coming back to the bikes Rossi has tested positive again so is out this weekend, Garrett Gerloff (sp?) is taking his place.

Apparently Toprak was in line for it but clashes of energy drink sponsorship (Red Bull and Monster) had made it complicated.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Apologies I jumped the gun on Rossi. He has failed the first covid test - he has two more and if he fails either of these two then he is definitely out for the weekend. Hence Gerloff being put on standby.

Breaking news though - Lecuona is definitely out this weekend. Apparently his brother has tested positive, under local laws (I assume they must have been living together) Iker has to quarantine himself and will miss this weekend.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Like something else going on right now, I called something too early and later 'tests' came back to bite me on the ass :D

Rossi to race tomorrow after both subsequent Covid tests came back negative. A shame for Gerloff as he rode superbly today in tricky conditions. For much of FP2 he was about 1 second from 1st place, extremely impressive.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Another breaking news - one person from Vinales' side of the team has tested positive. Maverick himself tested negative this morning but assume he is going to have to be tested again (before the sessions tomorrow?)

kenup283
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by kenup283 »

Any ideas what the test requirements are for retuning.

I read somewhere two tests negative separated by 48 hrs prior to FP3, but not sure where officially says that.

Also not sure if this is Dorna policy or is it locality of the event or riders home town taking precedence

A bit confused by that and some comments that suggest Rossi only had tests separated by one day, ie. thurs and Friday, and if so whether that means he also has to test negative again tomorrow morning before FP3.

Lots of testing his nose going to be sore :)

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I'm not sure about the times between testing, only that Rossi had to have 2 'negatives' before coming back (which is what happened).

Think the riders/teams are going to have to be so, so careful between now and the next two races (that's *if* Portugal goes ahead).
Arguably it's the only thing that could undo Mir - I noticed his crew chief Frankie Carchedi didn't even fist bump with the guy handing out the trophies on Sunday! They seem a well managed team so I can imagine they will be careful.

And, make sure no-one does something like Arbolino, where he flew home on a flight and his flight was quarantined because someone tested positive.
Really, really ill-advised move, after Sunday's race that could well turn out to cost him the WC.
So, if the riders really, really need to go home, do like Jack Miller and jump in your Audi RS6 and drive it!

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Mikesbytes »

Some reshuffling of 2021 flyaway events. I'm assuming this is in relation to the viral situation https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2021/01/ ... ted/360428

Stay safe everyone
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

So 2 weeks.. fingers crossed it is almost there!

Only thing that could unseat it now is the amount of Italian engineers and riders who have gone back to Italy in the gap between testing and the first race. Mat Oxley was writing about this and really surprised, as Italy is hitting another peak at the moment and if they end up closing all international travel you could end up with exactly what happened last year and the MotoGP being cancelled.

I honestly think Dorna should have said to them, your choice to go home or not, if you do and get stuck there the race is going ahead regardless.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Mikesbytes »

Australian MotoGP for 2021 is on the verge of being cancelled https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport ... rlijIVXRJA
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atropos
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by atropos »

Not on the verge of - now officially cancelled.

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Tumi
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Tumi »

I kind of got both racing and covid regulation combined last weekend. In Friday I was marshaling at KymiRing for national race weekend but early Saturday morning got a message that I had been in connection with covid positive at work on Thursday so good bye marshaling and hello 14 day quarantine at home. The first test yesterday showed negative.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Mikesbytes »

Tumi wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:05 pm
I kind of got both racing and covid regulation combined last weekend. In Friday I was marshaling at KymiRing for national race weekend but early Saturday morning got a message that I had been in connection with covid positive at work on Thursday so good bye marshaling and hello 14 day quarantine at home. The first test yesterday showed negative.
That's a shame Tumi, what kind of work do you do? Can you work from home or will you loose 2 weeks pay?
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I have a friend from Finland I was talking with yesterday who says you guys aren't doing too badly overall are you?

She was saying there was a lot of news about people that went to see the football in Russia (who aren't doing too well) and then came back with the virus, which has led to a pocket of a few hundred cases (and the border control not stopping people as they should have or something?)

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Tumi
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Tumi »

Mikesbytes wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:11 am
Tumi wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:05 pm
I kind of got both racing and covid regulation combined last weekend.
That's a shame Tumi, what kind of work do you do? Can you work from home or will you loose 2 weeks pay?
This week I have vacation so that should be covered and for next week I can apply for some quarantine compensation as this was compulsory, I was ordered to stay at home. I may lose some money but I think it as a payment for another week of vacation tinkering around the house.
MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:08 am
I have a friend from Finland I was talking with yesterday who says you guys aren't doing too badly overall are you?
This is correct, we are fine lining between more strict and more lax regulations. In the case you mentioned travel agencies who drove the football tourists to Russia and back didn't inform clearly when they will be returning so there simply were far too few testers in the customs at night so they let a bunch of virus carriers through.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Mikesbytes »

Tumi wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:39 pm
Mikesbytes wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:11 am
Tumi wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:05 pm
I kind of got both racing and covid regulation combined last weekend.
That's a shame Tumi, what kind of work do you do? Can you work from home or will you loose 2 weeks pay?
This week I have vacation so that should be covered and for next week I can apply for some quarantine compensation as this was compulsory, I was ordered to stay at home. I may lose some money but I think it as a payment for another week of vacation tinkering around the house.
MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:08 am
I have a friend from Finland I was talking with yesterday who says you guys aren't doing too badly overall are you?
This is correct, we are fine lining between more strict and more lax regulations. In the case you mentioned travel agencies who drove the football tourists to Russia and back didn't inform clearly when they will be returning so there simply were far too few testers in the customs at night so they let a bunch of virus carriers through.
Sounds like you got away lightly with it Tumi. My country has taken a strict approach and we are still having leakages, I'm currently in the 2nd week of a 3 week lockdown. We have just lost the MotoGP race as the State government requires a 2 week quarantine coming into the country and MotoGP doesn't have that sort of timeslot
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Schwantz34
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Schwantz34 »

Can I ask how you guys outwith the UK are doing vaccination wise, it seems to be one of the things we have done well. Given the large percentage of population who have had both ( or even 1 jab) it seems the link between cases and hospitalisations has been broken.

England are pretty much on route to open fully on 19th July lifting all restrictions and Scotland where I am in early August, although not all restrictions removed.

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Fingernails
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Re: Moto GP schedual and the corona virus...

Post by Fingernails »

Schwantz34 wrote:
Thu Jul 08, 2021 11:47 am
Can I ask how you guys outwith the UK are doing vaccination wise, it seems to be one of the things we have done well. Given the large percentage of population who have had both ( or even 1 jab) it seems the link between cases and hospitalisations has been broken.

England are pretty much on route to open fully on 19th July lifting all restrictions and Scotland where I am in early August, although not all restrictions removed.
I think that it's not yet clear that the link between cases and hospitalisations has been broken. And it's not yet clear if opening fully on the 19th of July is a good strategy or not. We will find out. While the government is very gung ho, medical experts are not so.

We will find out.

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