Aprilia, what the hell ?

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Fred Gassit
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Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Fred Gassit »

I read this. Can't say he's speaking out of turn, or saying anything that isn't blatantly obvious.....

“The [wet] conditions bring the machines closer,” said Redding. “I can see my potential. I can be fast. And it just reminded me of how good I can actually be. I just accepted it this year, I've never had a wet session. But then this weekend was like, 'yeah, well you can mix with the best guys in the world when the level comes a bit lower with the machinery'. Then it dries again and you're out in the field again.
“It's been hard. It's been a hard weekend and to be honest to have a race like that is heart-breaking because I try all the time and it doesn't get easier. Why can I go to Assen and battle with my team-mate, in Brno I can battle with my team-mate - yes I crashed - then I come here and I can't even fucking be in the same situation.
“Every time I go on the bike, every fucking day is different. There's always a problem with something. Every weekend there is a problem. And I've tried to accept it and I've tried to just deal with it, but honestly it's a bit of disaster at the moment. And I'm not happy. This weekend was a reality check for me. Riding around there, it hurts.
“So now I have to go to Silverstone, the next race. I need to smile in front of everyone and say I'm going to do a good performance and it's all bullshit. Because you can't do anything. You cannot make a piece of shit, shine. And that's what I'm trying to do.
“I know it sounds harsh and I shouldn't say it, but that's what it is. You're trying to make something average be better. I just hope when we go testing next week at Misano, that we can find something, we have a new engine… what is it going to bring?
“It's something that I've asked for five races ago, if not more. I hope that it's better. I do hope. But if it continues like this I don’t know what mindset I'm going to be in because this is not what I go racing for. I don't do it.”
It didn’t end there. Asked whether these repeated mechanical issues had been ongoing for some time, and he went again, describing the current situation as “a bit of a joke."
“The guys are trying but it's just a bit of a joke. There are so many things that I'm just not even allowed to say, not against me, but in a team of this level should not be happening. And it's happening. And I accept it.
“But I come here. I can be fast here and I've made good results in the past, I like the track, it suits my style. I thought I'd come here and have a good chance of making a good enough result for us. And it was hell from the beginning.
“And then we find out yesterday night there was a problem with the sensor, this and this and this. The suspension is reading different to what it's doing. Fucking hell. This is MotoGP, a full factory team. Why is this happening?
“I've had problems with the electronics all the weekend, cannot get it to work. So what hope do I have to make a result here? I can't. And that's the thing that is making it hard at the moment.”
Not even the possibility of testing at Misano next weekend offered up optimism. Aprilia’s management of the supposed shakedown was also “a fucking joke,” in the 25-year old’s eyes, as the factory had originally intended to spend three days on the Adriatic coast. Now he and Espargaro are only booked in for one.
”To be honest even that's a fucking joke. We were supposed to do three days. Then it was two days. Then something was not organised enough and now we have one day. Things like that you know. We need that test time, we need those things. But it's a joke.
“So the important thing, we have the engine, OK. Something big to try. We have one day, we can focus on that and I hope that it brings something. That's all I do. Just hope.”
Does he feel clear-the-air talks with Aprilia management and technicians could be of benefit before the all-important home race at Silverstone in two week’s time?
“I've tried,” he said. “I've tried already from round one. And I was in a bad place earlier this year and I said to everyone that I'm not happy, I need to move on forget it and let it be. And I was doing that, but then when you realise how good you can be and you can't do it again and it's holding you back and it's holding you back. That's what's so frustrating.
“I had the same in qualifying yesterday. Go in FP4 with the medium, I go in the qualifying with the soft and I go slower. And I have problems that I haven't had all weekend. I go in the race and I have problems again I haven't had all weekend. Why? Is the bike that bad that it changed from three degrees. I don't know. But you can never find the rhythm.
“I'm honestly better off doing FP1, warm-up and the race. The rest of it just forget it and I would do the same result. Because it doesn’t matter what you do."


https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/90341 ... hell-start




My questions are, how much money (if any) does DORNA give Aprilia to be on the grid ? I can't fathom what appears to total lack of direction and the disorganisation. Are they in it for the money ? It can't be the "lack of budget" thing....they are part of the Piagio group. Even if the budget is small, you'd think after this amount of time they'd be somewhere around where the Suzuki is.

Can't help but feel for their riders.

Iannone must be happy......

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Fingernails
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Fingernails »

Ouch!

If what Redding says is true, then it's amazing that they do as well as they do.

Jagbruno
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Jagbruno »

Fingernails wrote:Ouch!

If what Redding says is true, then it's amazing that they do as well as they do.
+1.

Can you imagine how Iannone will react to a situation like this come next year? That would be 'interesting' to watch...from a safe distance.

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Tourn46
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Tourn46 »

It just seems like Aprilia want their name attached to MotoGP... they don't seem that interested beyond that - look at the testing in Misano... supposed to be 3 days but not organised properly so it's only 1 day? That's not how to make progress. If they were THAT bothered, situations like that just wouldn't happen.

I know Redding isn't everyone's cup of tea, but they've contributed significantly to potentially ruining his career in MotoGP, they did the same to Sam Lowes... it's pretty diabolical.

Iannone is going to be fun next year! :evil:

Ros
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Ros »

Jagbruno wrote:Can you imagine how Iannone will react to a situation like this come next year? That would be 'interesting' to watch...from a safe distance.
Maybe he's already reacting... [emoji2] Just look at his uninspired racing in Brno and Austria.

bikermike
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by bikermike »

at the same time, Espargaro goes out and generally does better.

My mate (who is a proper racer, and a telegraph pole with his name on at Jurby roads...) rated Scott all the way, and I've got to resepct that, but...

I don't know.
The old Gary Player quote about the more I practice the luckier I get sort of rings true here.
To get a shit sandwich from one Italian manufacturer is bad luck, to get it from two?

To get to where he's got, he's clearly got real talent, but his career in MotoGP hasn't ever set the world on fire.

To be a top rider, you need to be a brilliant rider, a great leader of people[1], a sponsor-attracting PR presence [2]
I genuinely don't know, but it's always him. Clearly some of it is bad luck, but Bradley Smith has had two years in Tech 3, two years in KTM, and is looking at at least a job as a test rider (unless he goes off to Moto2). Sam Lowes threw the Aprillia at the scenery and got a role in Moto2. I would guess Bradley has the same or a smidge more talent, and Sam a touch less [3], but they still end up in seemingly better places

I would guess his riding talent is as good as he thinks it is, but his "soft skills" round the edges are not as good as others.

Mike

[1] not to be confused with nice, or being a good manager
[2] doesn't have to be a PR-smoothie - Cal does alright at it
[3] not a lot, mind, the steepness of the shake out at that level means even a gap of a couple of millirossi makes enough difference

Fred Gassit
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Fred Gassit »

After Iannone leaves/is fired/let go (yeah.....I'll make that call now.....) , they're going to struggle to find anyone who wants to ride for them.

Unless something changes dramatically.


One day of testing instead of three says that won't happen though. Is it lack of experienced engineering staff ? I just can't fathom it. Why spend the money and take up grid space for no reason ? There has to be some sort of reason this stuff is a) happening, b) allowed to happen.

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Tourn46
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Tourn46 »

bikermike wrote:at the same time, Espargaro goes out and generally does better.
Yeah... but hardly... the bike is clearly abysmal.

AEsp so far in 2018 (17 points) - Average Finish = 14th

19th, DNF, 10th, DNF, 9th, DNF, DNF, 13th, DNS, 15th, 17th

Redding so far in 2018 (12 points) - Average Finish = 16th

20th, 12th, 17th, 15th, DNF, DNF, 12th, 14th, 15th, DNF, 20th
Last edited by Tourn46 on Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Fingernails
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Fingernails »

Tourn46 wrote: Yeah... but hardly... the bike is clearly abysmal.

AEsp so far in 2018 (17 points)

19th, DNF, 10th, DNF, 9th, DNF, DNF, 13th, DNS, 15th, 17th

Redding so far in 2018 (12 points)

20th, 12th, 17th, 15th, DNF, DNF, 12th, 14th, 15th, DNF, 20th
If the design of the bike was handed over to a crack team that got the best out of it, how well would it do? If what Redding writes is accurate, then quite a bit better.

I wonder how much of this is due to actual incompetence (or not caring) and how much is down to insufficient staff to get the job done.

bikermike
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by bikermike »

As long as they have a grid slot, they will get riders. The talent/reward gradient is pretty brutal in all motorsport, but worst in motorcycling it seems.

It does seem very shit, agreed. The personnel point is telling - what else can a race tech be doing? He's not going to be on the production line is he?

At the same time, he always seems to have a duff bike, it always seems to be the teams fault. (OK, I don't read enough Italian or Spanish to hear what's going on in the non-anglophone sphere, but it doesn't seem like Espargaro is complaining). If you were his crew chief, would you go the extra extra mile for him (extra extra as all pit crew go above and beyond for their racers) to find that extra bit?

Compared to say, Ben Spies who got a proper career-ruining shit sandwich through no fault, I just get fed up with his ability to put his foot firmly in his mouth at every point.

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Tourn46
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Tourn46 »

bikermike wrote: At the same time, he always seems to have a duff bike, it always seems to be the teams fault. (OK, I don't read enough Italian or Spanish to hear what's going on in the non-anglophone sphere, but it doesn't seem like Espargaro is complaining). If you were his crew chief, would you go the extra extra mile for him (extra extra as all pit crew go above and beyond for their racers) to find that extra bit?
That's not fair in my opinion. When Scott makes a mistake, he holds his hands up. He's by far one of the most open and honest riders on the grid.

Espargaro most definitely has complained about reliability issues - but he seems to have gelled with the team and feels at home, whereas (like Sam Lowes), Scott has always just been the second rider.

bikermike
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by bikermike »

Tourn46 wrote: That's not fair in my opinion. When Scott makes a mistake, he holds his hands up. He's by far one of the most open and honest riders on the grid.

Espargaro most definitely has complained about reliability issues - but he seems to have gelled with the team and feels at home, whereas (like Sam Lowes), Scott has always just been the second rider.
Being open and honest may be part of the problem. Part of it is perception - see his comments about the TT - honest, yes, open, yes, but for an event that is hanging on by it's fingertips (don't be fooled by the show) and in response to an offer of a parade lap, they were at best graceless (I mention this not to bash Scott, but to put my comments in perspective/give an eg of where openness isn't helpful). Cal may be pretty candid, but he does so from a different position on the grid.

Aprillia is part of a big organisation for whom racing isn't the be-all and end-all for them. I suspect the team is in the worst of all worlds, they have been caught out by the ramping up of competitiveness in motoGP, and can't make the necessary corporate changes to turn things round to keeep up. Result is that they are always shoving under-developed kit to the track too soon and it's not working.

For Scott, this year has been a disaster, so I hope he's working on a plan for next year
For Aprillia, it's another under-performing year.
For Ducati, it's proof that hiring Gigi Dall’igna was a very smart move. Makes you wonder how far back they'd have been without him

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Tourn46
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Tourn46 »

bikermike wrote: At the same time, he always seems to have a duff bike, it always seems to be the teams fault. (OK, I don't read enough Italian or Spanish to hear what's going on in the non-anglophone sphere, but it doesn't seem like Espargaro is complaining).
Aleix Espargaro wrote: “Overall the problems I have had are always the same all the time. Sincerely, I don't know how to go faster. I tried everything. I think I'm in a good moment of my career, I'm focused, I'm fit, I'm relaxed, but I can't go faster with this bike."
“This weekend we suffer a bit with the consumption. Then we have to make the gearing longer to consume less, then the acceleration is worse, and a lean map too. So obviously this weekend has been more difficult."
“They overtook me outside, in acceleration, every bike arrived, every bike overtook me on the gas. It's frustrating, because there's nothing you can do.
“You open the throttle and the bike stays there, so there's nothing I can do. It pisses me off, but we have to improve.”

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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by bikermike »

OK, some of it is down to filters of language, but compare with
"”To be honest even that's a fucking joke. We were supposed to do three days. Then it was two days. Then something was not organised enough and now we have one day. Things like that you know. We need that test time, we need those things. But it's a joke."

Which one is going to make you as a crew chief (who is quite possibly as pissed-off as the riders) get out of bed that hour earlier to try to fix?

I would suggest the diverging fortunes of Aprillia and Ducati after Gigi's departure show that a fair bit of the problem is personnel/organisational, and in those circumstances, is Scott part of the problem?

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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by hdot »

There is only so much the folks on the ground (pit mechanics) can do. If the bike has no power, or the power delivery is shit, or the engine is unreliable, or the sensors aren't reading right etc. etc etc. they can't do anything. They are working with what they are given. It's not a situation like Yamaha where you have one bike performing better than others. Both Aprilias are garbage and have been so for quite some time. With the MotoGP baseline being a moving target I'm not sure what the solution is. I'd wager Yamaha would love some more satellite slots on the grid to gather more data. Plus to be frank with the way the racing has been if you're outside the top 8 or so you're not getting mentioned anyway. Aprilia needs to make a decision. I still want a Tuono V4R though....

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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Japhrodisiac »

Sounds like Scott has turned down the test rider option :D

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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by CLX »

Maybe they are out of their reach and should chose an MV or KTM like approach to Moto2.

It's sad though.

Sooner or later they'll leave and I hope Dorna and FIM are ready to act before the grid shrinks to those depressing 800cc numbers.

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hdot
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by hdot »

What is the upside to a big grid if some of the entries are complete shit? All the fanfare and attention goes to the top guys, and the racing is exquisite.

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Tourn46
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Tourn46 »

bikermike wrote: Which one is going to make you as a crew chief (who is quite possibly as pissed-off as the riders) get out of bed that hour earlier to try to fix?

I would suggest the diverging fortunes of Aprillia and Ducati after Gigi's departure show that a fair bit of the problem is personnel/organisational, and in those circumstances, is Scott part of the problem?
The organisation is clearly a joke, they'd replaced Scott with Ianonne before he'd even begun pretty much! They threw Lowes out before even a year was up in his contract too... that can't be how to seriously progress a team/bike can it? As detailed in a previous post, he's not really done much worse than Aleix (who we all know can throw down an epic lap one off lap) in the races this year.

We all know why Scott's being so outspoken, it's because they have given him no reason not to be, this is all part of what's so fascinating... I'm enjoying the honesty and the calling out of Aprilia. I'm hopeful it does give them the kick up the bum they need to actually try and compete.

I am somewhat disappointed that fingers are being pointed at Scott as being the problem, absolutely, he's not been good enough in MotoGP... but he was stuck on the crappy Marc VDS Honda which nobody has gone well on, he wasn't that far off beating Petrucci to the GP17 at Pramac and now he's stuck on a bike which isn't competitive, that keeps breaking down with a team that can't even organise their test days?

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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by bikermike »

heh! @ Japhrodisiac (although, if enough Euro change hands "I am very excited to be working as test rider for Aprilia and think I can make a big change" may equally appear)

small grids make the sport look smaller and less convincing as the premier class
1) look very silly on the startline
2) reduces the opportunity for new riders to come through
3) reduces the show, especially if the front places are sorted out early both on TV (if the director is any good) and also for the crowd at the circuit
4) less sponsors on the grid, less money coming in the door


there's plenty of reasons not to build up the grid to silly numbers, but the current size looks good.

Re Aprilia, I'd be curious to know the causes of the sensor problem and the suspension - both of those could be simple assembly errors.

"I am somewhat disappointed that fingers are being pointed at Scott as being the problem, absolutely, he's not been good enough in MotoGP... but he was stuck on the crappy Marc VDS Honda which nobody has gone well on, he wasn't that far off beating Petrucci to the GP17 at Pramac and now he's stuck on a bike which isn't competitive, that keeps breaking down with a team that can't even organise their test days?"
He must have known about the Lowes situation, so if he's surprised by what's happened and didn't have an escape plan either he, or his manager, have fouled up. Yes, he is in a dire team, but he's doing less well than the other guy in that situation.

How is "calling Aprillia out" going to help either him or Aprillia? As you rightly say, they aren't listening to him. And anyone thinking of taking him on as a rider is going to be wondering what kind of a presence he's going to be in the garage. There's plenty of other riders with similar talent to him, and their careers aren't sliding away the way his is.

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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by JanBros »

met Scott in the Pramac hospitality last year in Assen.

from a marketing/sponsors point of view : he was dressed like a 16-year old schoolboy, of to the pub to get drunk/smoke some weed and than of to the disco on XTC.

it's just what anyone would think if you'd have seen him outside the race-track. he is making it harder for himself than nescesary
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Tourn46
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by Tourn46 »

JanBros wrote:met Scott in the Pramac hospitality last year in Assen.

from a marketing/sponsors point of view : he was dressed like a 16-year old schoolboy, of to the pub to get drunk/smoke some weed and than of to the disco on XTC.

it's just what anyone would think if you'd have seen him outside the race-track. he is making it harder for himself than nescesary
I'm not necessarily saying that isn't the case... but it shouldn't be a reason to give Aprilia a free pass on their lack of effort or (what I perceive to be) poor leadership.

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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by JanBros »

Tourn46 wrote:
JanBros wrote:met Scott in the Pramac hospitality last year in Assen.

from a marketing/sponsors point of view : he was dressed like a 16-year old schoolboy, of to the pub to get drunk/smoke some weed and than of to the disco on XTC.

it's just what anyone would think if you'd have seen him outside the race-track. he is making it harder for himself than nescesary
I'm not necessarily saying that isn't the case... but it shouldn't be a reason to give Aprilia a free pass on their lack of effort or (what I perceive to be) poor leadership.
I wasn't implying that. just that if they can chose between 2 equaly good riders, 1 is a marketing-weapon, the other the opposite, the choice is obvious ;)
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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by hdot »

Iannone is not much of a marketing weapon either... he is just better dressed :lol:

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Re: Aprilia, what the hell ?

Post by JanBros »

hdot wrote:Iannone is not much of a marketing weapon either... he is just better dressed :lol:
:D

but not entirly true : Iannone IS faster
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