Silly Season

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Silly Season

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I'm sure Aprilia are looking at MV and thinking - sports psychologist, if we sort this out, we have a race winner on our hands.

Vinales will be a quicker rider than Dovi, especially now that the latter has had a year out. They have their test rider in Espargaro.

In all honesty, who else would you put on that bike instead of Vinales, who is a proven race winner and on his day can destroy the rest of the field?

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

Like Zarco going to Ducati, Vinales may be a gamble. But, if that gamble can pay off then the rewards can be substantial.

Fernandez to MotoGP might be premature. I still think Gardner will win the Moto2 championship this year, and Fernandez would then have a perfect starting point to win the championship in 2022. I would like to see Fernandez versus Acosta in Moto2 in 2022.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Silly Season

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Ah come on man.. that performance yesterday definitely shows he needs to be in MotoGP! :) To have an awful start like that, get pushed back down to 7th (I think) then to cut through the rest of the field and still be pulling away at the end? I can't remember the last time I saw anyone do that in Moto2, the bikes and field are just so even now.

Breaking news: Vinales has left Yamaha for 2022. Apparently though Steve English (journalist) is reporting he is going to VR46 and the Ducati, NOT Aprilia! :shock:

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:57 am
Ah come on man.. that performance yesterday definitely shows he needs to be in MotoGP! :) To have an awful start like that, get pushed back down to 7th (I think) then to cut through the rest of the field and still be pulling away at the end? I can't remember the last time I saw anyone do that in Moto2, the bikes and field are just so even now.
His performance yesterday was stupendous, and he looks a very good candidate for MotoGP. However, I don't think the Moto2 championship is anything to be sniffed at and I'm sure he'd learn a lot more with a crack at it next year. Assuming he doesn't win it this year, which is entirely plausible.
Breaking news: Vinales has left Yamaha for 2022. Apparently though Steve English (journalist) is reporting he is going to VR46 and the Ducati, NOT Aprilia! :shock:
That would be a shock. Or a shock upon a shock. Would Vinales at VR46 bring sponsorship that would make it easier for them get current factory bikes? I can't imagine Vinales leaving Yamaha to get on a year old bike.

Rick650
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Rick650 »

Ignoring any temperament issues, does Vinales have a problem with bike setup?
My recollection is that when he left Suzuki it wasn't just to go to the bigger, better resourced team with the track record
He had been making long term complaints about a lack of rear wheel traction, a problem that he has also has with Yamaha.
Does he require the front/rear traction balance to be just right to be fast?

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CLX
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Re: Silly Season

Post by CLX »

If promoting Fernandez to MotoGP is what it takes to keep him, KTM should not think twice about doing it. Ideally he'd stay for another year and win the title, but it's not worth letting Yamaha snatch him because of Moto2.

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hdot
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Re: Silly Season

Post by hdot »

Mav to VR46 makes sense to me, on many levels, all coming back to Mav's psyche.

- Duc is much more consistent in how it responds to different grip levels and tracks- won't do Mav's head in as much race to race
- Not being on a factory squad means smaller paychecks and less potential, but he is already rich and would probably benefit from not having that constant WC pressure. Plus ARAMCO has barrels of money (for now). And we know how Duc plays fast and loose with factory seats. If Mav can actually capitalize on his potential with consistency he will be in a red leather suit in no time.
- I see Mav a lot like Lorenzo in riding style (and temperament) and once Lorenzo got his head around the Duc he was FAST. Zarco also got a similar fresh start on a satellite Duc.

I still think Mav's biggest weakness is his own mentality but this move is a good way to give him the space to do that and still stay sharp and on the grid.

2 interesting side storylines from this are 1. Rossi pretty much severing his ties with Yamaha and 2. how Rossi recruited Mav. Outside of 2015 I generally see Yamaha as a decently run factory squad, so it's a little surprising that 3 of their biggest riders ever have jumped ship over the last decade (Rossi, Lorenzo, Mav). Again this all hinges on Mav actually going to VR46. I think it's a MUCH better move than him to Aprilia, for everyone involved. We'll see what happens.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Silly Season

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

@Fingernails - I'm not sure what the proposed setup is for Rossi and his team. With the money behind them plus the name, I would be very surprised if he does not get factory bikes (or perhaps a small step removed, like Pramac currently).

@CLX - Totally agree, Fernandez is going to be on a lot of shopping lists for MotoGP. I wouldn't be at all surprised if both Yamaha and Honda make a punt for him (although KTM have said that Yamaha wouldn't be able to afford him! :shock: )

@hdot - That's an interesting point about MV being out of the spotlight and performing better. Remember at one time he was being spoken about as a future GP champion when he was on a 125 (I would say in the same way Acosta is now, there was a lot of hype). From memory he was expected to win the title but then he started DNFing, and then ended up quitting the squad with races left in the season. The following year he won the title for a smaller team IIRC, and I think took a lot of people by surprise.
So perhaps being away from a factory team will help him a bit? Although the VR46 guys are probably still going to be getting a lot of press..

I agree it being mad about Rossi leaving Yamaha. Whichever commercials/manager allowed that to happen honestly needs to be sacked as they've really dropped the ball not having his team running on Yamaha next year. No excuses as far as I'm concerned!
Rick650 wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:45 pm
Does he require the front/rear traction balance to be just right to be fast?
David Emmett made this comment the other day.. it does seem to be the case.

bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

I was being a bit flippant, but it really seems a startlingly daft move from Mav.

Interesting that he puts in the best race after he's quit

A satellite Ducati might be good for him - it's turned round Zarco (who is nothing like the same person/situation, but was motogp square peg in a round hole, and it seems to have got him back on track). Maybe the drop in pressure by being one of a lot of Ducati riders (and not being in the factory team who have their own special problems), will help.

Aprillia seems to be in the last-chance saloon of lunging for anyone credible regardless of whether they will be a good fit or not (Dovi will over-think the Aprillia IMO). I think they'd be better of with Aleix Espargaro and a development rider for a bit longer.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Silly Season

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I think he's not happy at the moment, so... you gotta change. We've all been in jobs like that where you feel under-appreciated, and really the best thing you can do is move on.

hdot
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Re: Silly Season

Post by hdot »

If that's how he feels then he's justified to move.......... but a lot of people feel "underappreciated" at their jobs because they're not good at them. All Mav has really done for Yamaha is give one race win a year.... at the expense of constantly being trashed in the press, demoralized in the box and led on a wild goose chase in development.

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

I note that of the seven times that Aleix Espargaro has finished this year, four of those times he beat Maverick.

I wonder if this has had some effect on Maverick's decision.

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CLX
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Re: Silly Season

Post by CLX »

Fingernails wrote:
Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:04 am
I note that of the seven times that Aleix Espargaro has finished this year, four of those times he beat Maverick.

I wonder if this has had some effect on Maverick's decision.
well noted, I never even thought of that

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

Where will Vinales end up? Who will take Vinales Yamaha?

https://youtu.be/GoePsrpuL-E
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bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

Interesting round-up. Rossi's possible retirement makes things interesting.

I don't see why the VR46 team would need a marquee rider in year one tbh.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Silly Season

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Yes but if you had the opportunity to take a rider of Maverick's calibre wouldn't you take it? (and they must be thinking, if his head can get sorted out, then he will be a race winner for them).

Reading some really conflicting stuff from journos about where he is going, to the point where I think there must still be some negotiating going on. Simon Patterson (who writes for The Race) is absolutely adamant (100%, done deal) that he is going to Aprilia. But I have read elsewhere that he is going to VR46.. so who knows! He'll probably be on a Repsol Honda :D

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

Repsol Honda? At the moment that appears to be the place that careers go to, to die.

hdot
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Re: Silly Season

Post by hdot »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:01 am
Yes but if you had the opportunity to take a rider of Maverick's calibre wouldn't you take it?
It's not just caliber- there are more race winners on the grid than ever. It's a rider's temperament, adaptability and leadership qualities. Mav is near the bottom in those aspects

bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

Would I take Mav on?

Frankly no. He clearly has the talent, but has managed to not deliver and leave unhappy teams behind him. Unless I had a very clear picture of what was going wrong and how I could fix it, I'd steer clear. I think Aprillia, where the bike is much less developed and less refined will be purgatory for him. The successes at Aprillia come from physical riders who bludgeon the bike into submission, not from rapier-precision.

I wonder how his profile/wages/personal sponsorship equation is? If he is self-financing and has a large fan-club/ability to generate good publicity I might risk it...

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Silly Season

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Just out of interest who would you guys put on the Aprilia or VR46 Ducati rather than MV?
Let's say team mate at Aprilia is Aleix Espargaro and Marini on VR46.

Only Moto2 riders I could think - Raul Fernandez? I don't know if either team would have the money or inclination to bully out KTM.
Dovi?
Fingernails wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:27 pm
Repsol Honda? At the moment that appears to be the place that careers go to, to die.
Only Lorenzo! And think that plane crashed cause it was overloaded with baggage :D Anyone going into that team now would be doing so with the assumption that Honda will get their sh*t together before too long (which history will bear out, looking at periods in the past where Honda have dropped the ball normally it won't last too long. Either that or they will withdraw from racing!)

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 1:18 pm
Just out of interest who would you guys put on the Aprilia or VR46 Ducati rather than MV?
Let's say team mate at Aprilia is Aleix Espargaro and Marini on VR46.

Only Moto2 riders I could think - Raul Fernandez? I don't know if either team would have the money or inclination to bully out KTM.
Dovi?
For Aprilia, Dovi.

For VR46, Bastianini is out-performing Marini at Avintia this year. Perhaps he could stay? Otherwise what about Fabio Di Giannantonio? Marco Bezzecchi my be the obvious choice as the current top performing VR46 rider in Moto2, but Digi has won a race this year.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

Part of the equation is how much money a rider brings to a team the $1M rider might be cheaper than the $0.5M rider

What we see at Aprilia is an experienced rider who manages to put the bike in the group that's fighting for the places just off the podium and a new rider who is in the back end of the grid. I'm finding it difficult to understand where the bike itself sits

In regards to VR46, are they an additional team to the grid or taking over Avinta ?
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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

Mikesbytes wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:10 am
In regards to VR46, are they an additional team to the grid or taking over Avinta ?
I believe that they are a new team taking over Avinta's grid slots. But, Avinta has VR46 in its team name now.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Silly Season

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Yes I think that was an arrangement with Avintia for this year.

From next year the Avintia team organisation is losing its grid slots, those will be bought by the new VR46 team (I assume this will be a new team built around the Moto2 team and getting some new people in?)

I know what you mean with Aprilia Fingernails. As good as Aleix is, I would love to see that bike in the hands of Vinales or Dovi (whoever ends up there). A common thought from race journos is that it's a sweet bike, lovely chassis but the engine power was letting it down. If they can get that sorted (and also not have the reliability failures that they had in 2020, which forced them to detune the engine) I think most thoughts are that the bike is capable of finishing on the podium.

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

It seems that VR46 is claiming that Aramco will be a sponsor, but Aramco is saying that they will not be.

Sounds rather confusing...

This article says that Rossi may need to race in 2022 to make sure that the team can find sponsorship. https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/p ... m/6630282/

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