Silly Season

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
Jagbruno
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Jagbruno »

Aaaaaand Zarco is now announced at Pramac on Pecco’s bike.

Musical chairs are on. Big time. Bring on the pop corn buckets, next stop, Rossi at Aprilia, paving way for a VR46 satellite team in a couple of years.
8-)

snowman
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Re: Silly Season

Post by snowman »

looks like Petrucci thinks the Espargaro rumors have some credibility.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/93836 ... prilia-ktm

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

I'm going to take a guess at how it will fan out at Honda;
1. Crutchlow decides to do another year, riders stay exactly as they are in 2020
2. Crutchlow decides to retire as per his pre-covid plan. Pol takes the factory bike, Alex takes Crutchlow's bike and Taka keeps his ride, which may or may not be a 2020 bike as per the other 3.

I'm trying to understand what is happening at Pramac;
1. Miller leaves
2. Martin replaces Miller
3. Zarco set to replace Bagnaia
Now I'm wondering if there is more of a financial decision rather than a best rider decision. Zarco had a much better track record in his rookie season than Bagnaia, both on previous year bikes in top satellite teams, but was totally blitzed by his team mate at KTM. I felt he did OK in his 3 rides at LCR Honda on last years bike, one OK result, going OK when taken out, one DNF of his own making though he wasn't the only rider to crash like that on the same corner. End result was that Honda didn't give him Lorenzo's ride but I'm wondering if it did show he could ride a bike that wasn't a Yamaha

Bagnaia in 2019 started the season with a DNF in most races then settled down to 10 -12 places with a 4th thrown in. Looking for comparisons would be good satellite teams with riders on 2018 bikes;
1. Quartararo 192 points
2. Morbidelli 115 points
3. Nakagami 74 points and missed the last 3 races
4. Bagnaia 54 points and missed the last race
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Japhrodisiac
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Japhrodisiac »

Things are getting very interesting. Obviously Ducati rates Zarco otherwise they wouldn't have, and perhaps still, move mountains to suit him.

Bagnaia out? or just being shuffled around? A Rossi Protege might end up a teammate to Morbidelli should Rossi not continue, and I am starting to think he will not continue on given the goings-on so far.

Pol to Honda makes sense in a way, aside from the longstanding issues between Marc and he, but that was years ago, so who knows what the atmosphere will be if they do end up as teammates.

I hope Petrux does end up with the KTM or Aprilia ride, he won Mugello last year, and he deserves to be in the show imo.

Alex Marquez to LCR, or...to Pramac to Join Martin?

Too many good riders and too few grid spots at the moment, sadly

Lots of fun possibilities now.

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

This is a confusing silly season.

I hope Pecco finds somewhere. We'll see how Zarco works out at Ducati. Eventually.

It does seem to me that the teams have a lot of belief in Zarco. I can only believe that these knowledgeable and experienced people know what they are doing.

snowman
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Re: Silly Season

Post by snowman »

Zarco deal not done yet according to this....
https://the-race.com/motogp/zarco-close ... promotion/

bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

Well, if Petrucci doesn't want to go to WSBK, then they need to find someone. Hey Pecco - fancy a go on a Pannigale?

If this Espargaro news is true, then this will blow everything open. No one is going to want to commit until the dust settles on that. And of course, picking anyone from outside the MotoGP pool is a bigger risk than usual as no-one has current form/the opportunity to try things to base things on.

I'm a bit confused on the Dovi/Lorenzo stuff - where would Dovi want to go if he didn't agree terms with Ducati? unless it's a strong-arm by Ducati and they offer him £2.50 and a bag of chips, he's not going to go anywhere. Unless <conspiracy theory hat/on> he wants to go to KTM and the rest is subterfuge to make the space <tinfoil hat/off>

Edit - thinking about this, there's a lot that revolves around Ducati here - are they trying to give Dovi a kick up the *rse? switch to a more competitive team mate (and booting him out/to WSBK, not shuffle into a satellite team), move Zarco up a notch, get Jorge Martin in), and now say "well, if you don't like it Dovi, we hear Lorenzo is very bored at the moment..."

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

How many bikes are Ducati going to have in WSBK if various MotoGP riders keep going there to ride Ducatis?

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

Fingernails wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:12 pm
How many bikes are Ducati going to have in WSBK if various MotoGP riders keep going there to ride Ducatis?
Chaz Davies - Aruba
Scott Redding - Aruba
Leon Camier - Barni
Michael Ruben Rinali - Goeleven
I'm assuming that Leon and MIchael are straight privateer's

I'd say that under the current economic climate there isn't the money to increase the number of factory supported Ducai's. If there was a decision made on rider lineup for 2021 before racing recommences, then I'd guess that Ducati would keep Scott Redding and replace Chaz Davies which means one rider from MotoGP
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bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

Fingernails wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 3:12 pm
How many bikes are Ducati going to have in WSBK if various MotoGP riders keep going there to ride Ducatis?
If they have enough bikes in WSBK can they count them as sales for homolgation purposes...? :D

I thought (as per mikesbytes) it's 2 factory (Redding and A.N.Other - probably not Chas), and then varying levels of support for privateers.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

Aliex signed with Aprilia till 2022. No surprises there.

Wanda want another 2 years added to Iannone's ban
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bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

WADA - unless you mean he's pissed off the Chinese property to yacht conglomerate :D

IMO, appealing for stricter sentences always has a slightly unsavoury element to it, and more than a whiff of politics.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

This article suggests that the activity in the silly season has been spurred on by the covid cost cutting measures of using 2020 bikes in 2021, the rider being the best bet of where to make the improvement

https://www.gpone.com/en/blog/paolo-sca ... rst-victim
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bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

It's in a way the same as any freeze (tyres, aero etc) if you stop a bunch of very competitive people from competing in one place, they'll put their effort in other places.

If they stopped all competition, they'd just race to be first in the lunch queue... If it goes the way of F1, the next hiring market will legal capacity (I'm available, references on request... :mrgreen: )

what strikes me is that if Rossi goes, Dovi could be next - if the groupthink goes from "established old heads" to "young guns", then he is the next to fall. And Marquez should get nervous... There are a lot of hungry, cheaper riders who will say they can do better on the machinery. If it goes that way, the head-bangers (relatively speaking) - ie the Espargarae will be safer as they are seen as people who will ride the wheels off whatever is put in front of them.

When it all starts up again, the Marshalls are going to be very busy.

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

bikermike wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:49 am
what strikes me is that if Rossi goes, Dovi could be next - if the groupthink goes from "established old heads" to "young guns", then he is the next to fall. And Marquez should get nervous... There are a lot of hungry, cheaper riders who will say they can do better on the machinery. If it goes that way, the head-bangers (relatively speaking) - ie the Espargarae will be safer as they are seen as people who will ride the wheels off whatever is put in front of them.
Personally I think Marquez is quite safe at Honda until he stops winning championships. With Rossi leaving Honda, Rossi thought it was him winning and Honda thought it was the bike. We saw what happened after that. I think that everyone now, including Honda, know that it's Marquez winning, not the bike.

bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

Fingernails wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:21 pm

Personally I think Marquez is quite safe at Honda until he stops winning championships. With Rossi leaving Honda, Rossi thought it was him winning and Honda thought it was the bike. We saw what happened after that. I think that everyone now, including Honda, know that it's Marquez winning, not the bike.
I certainly think he is safer than not, but there's been a trend for the last few years to stick with proven winners (or proven mid-table-finishers down the grid) rather than take new people in. There's always been that element, but with fewer riders having their career finished by injury or worse (or coming back out of retirement - 10 years ago I doubt Lorenzo would be talking about coming back), it's quite noticeable. Things tend to go in waves - if everyone sees everyone else hiring young guns, nobody wants to be left out, and so a lot of senior riders will be binned.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Alex.

Mike

If it does then it will item #38495734 as to why Zarco's move to KTM is backfiring on him.

snowman
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Re: Silly Season

Post by snowman »

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2020/06/ ... N3XDHrhliQ
Marc Marquez signed a 4 year contract, wonder if he has any say who his teammate will be anymore.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

Of course Anita want to keep Zarco for 2021, they get a good rider for free + 2 engineers

https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/1 ... -to-pramac

Buried in this article is a comment about Petrucci and Miller. It sounds like Ducati wanted to change their mind about the 2020 contract and give Petrucci's bike to Miller but breaking the contract would be too expensive
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Silly Season

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I'm surprised that HRC have apparently signed Pol. Not because he is not a good rider (he is, and I think his style of 'attack attack' will suit the Honda) but because it risks upsetting the golden goose.

We know how important family is for Marc and he seems very close to Alex. They say blood is thicker than water, and I think HRC (or Puig specifically?) are taking a risk. I hope at very least they have the sense to have an LCR factory-spec bike and mechanics lined up for Alex next year, otherwise it could risk an ugly situation.

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

I think that given his experience level, that being in LCR is a good place for Alex to be. There would be a lot of pressure on Alex in the factory team and he would likely be destroyed by his brother. I'm not sure how upset Marc would be on Alex's behalf. There may be a promise that Alex can find his way back to the factory team if he does well.

EDIT: Petrucci to KTM?

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/93850 ... e-ktm-deal

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

KTM needs a rider who is quick on their bike and is good at development. I've seen a discussion that stated that Miller was better at development than Petrucci however that doesn't mean that Petrucci is bad at development. In KTM's situation there isn't a lot of experienced riders around to replace Pol and their other riders are relatively new to MotoGP, so they will gain more from Petrucci than bringing in another new rider and lets not forget that Petrucci will bring Ducati knowledge. Dovi would of been a better pick if available but this talk about the KTM going to Petrucci would suggest that Dovi either resigns with Ducati (likely) or retires.
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kenup283
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Re: Silly Season

Post by kenup283 »

A lot will be said of the Alex Márquez situation, much of the narrative has been and will be that he’s being replaced without being given a go at it.

While true in race situation he is not exactly new to riding Honda MotoGP machinery. He’s been giving several multi-day tests over the years, both with Honda directly and also via MarcVDS team structure.

He also had four tests leading into the 2020 season. Two 2-day Valencia / Jerez & two 3-day test at sepang / Qatar. This is where the biggest boot in mouth moment potentially happened. Sadly if so it would be from naively actually answering questions asked rather than giving your own random answer about something else.

Statements like “The problem with the bike is its character” are like kyptonite and self inflicted gunshot wound for a rider to make. Especially at this moment in motogp where we’ve seen several top riders never be able to turn around situation where the character seems off to them and their style.

https://www.gpone.com/en/2020/02/24/mot ... r.html?amp

We’ve seen it both ways, Espargaro didn’t get on woth the Yamaha too, so it’s not just smooth riders having this issue. It’s repeatable enough to catch anyone’s ear. I fear Alex may have touched the third rail on this one..

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

I think its a bit of yin and yang

1. Alex Marquez built a reputation in Moto2 of taking a long time to adapt, it was his 3rd season when he became competitive and 5th season to win the championship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81lex_M%C3%A1rquez Perhaps Honda saw that it was going to take a while for Alex to adapt to the MotoGP Honda when he was preseason testing, after all its not the easiest bike to ride.

2. The opportunity to nab Pol came up and would Pol be willing to accept a ride in LCR?

Solution is for Alex to learn the bike in LCR while Pol is used to shore up the constructors championship. Next time a vacancy comes up in Factory Honda, Alex can be promoted
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bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

Are we starting to see a bit of a split in MotoGP - Honda/KTM v Yam/Suzuki - aggressive v smooth. Is Ducati a third camp?

Has anyone done really well on both sides of the camp?

Apical
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Apical »

I would say Ducati goes with Honda & KTM plenty of power coupled with adequate cornering.
Last year it seemed Ducati was down on corner speed compared to the Suzuki & Yamahas.
The Ducati seemed to have better corner speed than the KTM most of the time.
The GP19 may have been better in the turns than some Hondas.
But into the corner, through & out the factory Ducatis were no faster than Marc Marquez on his Honda.
I saw it first hand at Mugello last year, Ducati had zero advantage at their home track.
Very similar lap times made in similar ways

So I'd put the Duck in the same group as the RCV 213 & the KTM
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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