Silly Season

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
hdot
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Re: Silly Season

Post by hdot »

Tourn46 wrote:
gwcrim wrote:Marq's shoulder may heal well enough to race and pull off good times, but like hdot said, one freak spill and he's got a potential issue. He'll start off the season strong, but by August how will he be? There's going to be maximum pressure on him. Guess we'll find out.
One freak spill for Quartararo, Vinales, Rins, Dovi, Mir, Rossi, Morbidelli, Petrucci, Miller...
None of those riders already have bum shoulders or are riding on bikes as physical as the Honda. Not a valid comparison.
Tourn46 wrote:I dont see why it's really any different for Marquez. He was in the same position last year and look what happened.
None of them are recovering from shoulder surgery. And even compared to last year Marquez is further off in fitness and strength. He said so himself. Could be a bluff but his shoulder looks visibly off. His performance is coming at a price.

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Tourn46
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Tourn46 »

hdot wrote: None of those riders already have bum shoulders or are riding on bikes as physical as the Honda. Not a valid comparison.
Cool, I'm glad there are riders immune to damage.

atropos
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Re: Silly Season

Post by atropos »

Tourn46 wrote:
hdot wrote: None of those riders already have bum shoulders or are riding on bikes as physical as the Honda. Not a valid comparison.
Cool, I'm glad there are riders immune to damage.
They are not immune to damage - all the riders are just one crash away from disaster. But in Marquez's case, he has two bum shoulders both of which have been operated on and he risks being taken out permanently by a relatively minor crash. The shoulder is a rubbish joint, shallow ball and socket which relies on several muscles and tendons for its stability. You can only operate on it so many times before it is fubar'd (a bit like the knee, which is also has a finite life when it comes to surgical intervention).

hdot
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Re: Silly Season

Post by hdot »

Tourn46 wrote:
hdot wrote: None of those riders already have bum shoulders or are riding on bikes as physical as the Honda. Not a valid comparison.
Cool, I'm glad there are riders immune to damage.
That's not what I said or even implied. Marc is the only top rider that has needed back to back surgeries for the same issue in the last 2 years and the Honda is the most physical race winning bike to ride. These are both risk factors that are unique to Marc. I don't see why stating as much would upset you.

hdot
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Re: Silly Season

Post by hdot »

atropos wrote:
Tourn46 wrote:
hdot wrote: None of those riders already have bum shoulders or are riding on bikes as physical as the Honda. Not a valid comparison.
Cool, I'm glad there are riders immune to damage.
They are not immune to damage - all the riders are just one crash away from disaster. But in Marquez's case, he has two bum shoulders both of which have been operated on and he risks being taken out permanently by a relatively minor crash. The shoulder is a rubbish joint, shallow ball and socket which relies on several muscles and tendons for its stability. You can only operate on it so many times before it is fubar'd (a bit like the knee, which is also has a finite life when it comes to surgical intervention).
Exactly. Shoulder injuries killed Ben Spies' career and he was on a much more docile Yamaha. The body can only take so much repetitive strain before sustaining permanent irreversible damage.

kenup283
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Re: Silly Season

Post by kenup283 »

Spies never rode the yamaha again after the crash that injured his shoulder. He was out the rest of seasson after that. One could say he never really rode at all afterwards. A more applicable case would be Nakagami if looking to call out the difficulties riding the Honda who had to sit out to get his shoulder worked on this year after a crash at Assen that kept making him slower and slower as the season went on.

Marquez as far as I understand is having proactive surgery to correct chorionic dislocation issue. Something that's been with him a while. I saw it as him wanting to do it while younger, to heal faster and prolong his domination on the series. There's a big diffence between a major reconstructive surgery after a big crash, and setting the quickest lap on final day of testing at end of season after crashing the day before, stepping off the bike, and then deciding on having surgery to make your self even stronger.

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Tourn46
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Tourn46 »

atropos wrote:It's official - Lorenzo has signed with Yamaha as a test rider
Love things like this...

46+12+20+21=99

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Tourn46
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Tourn46 »

Reports suggest that Petronas Yanaha aren't interested in Rossi for 2021.

Maybe we could see more Yamaha's on the grid as there are technically a couple of unfilled grid slots due to Marc VDS leaving iirc... VR46 Yamaha with Rossi and Marini ;)

p4p1
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Re: Silly Season

Post by p4p1 »

Tourn46 wrote:Reports suggest that Petronas Yanaha aren't interested in Rossi for 2021.

Maybe we could see more Yamaha's on the grid as there are technically a couple of unfilled grid slots due to Marc VDS leaving iirc... VR46 Yamaha with Rossi and Marini ;)
I posted this on another forum
p4p1;463268 wrote:VR46 racing team stepping up to MotoGP makes more sense IMO. Not that I would bet against what you’ve said either.

I predicted based on nothing but a gut feeling that Petronas would become the factory sponsor/team for Yamaha when Rossi retires given Yamaha’s previous issue with getting sponsorship without Rossi.

Even with what’s happened I still think it’s a possibility, Yamaha having Petronas as their factory sponsor makes sense IMO. The factory team hasn’t been able to have a solid partnership with any sponsor the way Honda has had with Repsol or Ducati has had with Phillip Morris. Partnering with Petronas to that degree makes sense for both parties IMO, IIRC Monster was already signed to be the factory sponsor when the Petronas team came to be and their deal only lasts for two years. Petronas gets to be the factory sponsor and have a chance at being a world title winning sponsor/team.

So if Petronas becomes Yamahas title sponsor and Rossi decides to continue for at least one more season. Fabios crew goes with him to the factory team, as will likely happen whether Rossi continues or not, the Petronas team now has some of their staff employed on at least one side of the factory garage. Rossi takes his entire team with him to his newly formed VR46 team. Rossi wouldn’t have to buy the team spots off Petronas if they wanted to continue with only the factory team, he could do a deal with sponsorship. Either running some Petronas sponsorship on his teams bikes or Petronas being the title sponsor of his GP team and maybe even replacing sky on all of his teams bikes.

Unless Rossi has no plans to ever bring his team to MotoGP then I’m not sure that riding for Petronas when he knows he can get almost whatever he wants from Dorna and Yamaha, with two spots still being available on the grid if Petronas didn’t want to come to the party would make any sense for him. With Luca Marini being his moto2 teams most likely rider to be able to make the jump up to MotoGP the time from a marketing point of view and maybe from a personal point of view (as an older brother I could easily see him wanting to be in a team with his brother for at least a year) the time has never been better for his own team in the top class IMO. If he’s having a better 2021 than his brother he can ride on with no pressure from a team who wants to sign a promising youngster, if he can’t compete with his brother then it’s an easy decision for him to make.

Having said this, just because I believe it makes sense or even if it does make sense it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

Yeh it makes a lot of sense for a VR46 MotoGP team to start in 2021. Rossi is still a strong branding and would be able to bring in a lot of sponsorship $$$. If he starts the team without being one of the riders, then perhaps he would draw in less sponsorship $$$? Probably even Rossi doesn't know the answer to that question at this point.

If we end up with 6

In regards to Factory Yamaha they had the problem of 2 star riders under the risk of being poached while their 3rd star rider has declared that he won't make his mind up till mid season. So they could of lost one of those star riders, probably to Ducati then found out mid season that the 3rd rider has decided to retire leaving them with a hole in their line up.
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

Yeh it makes a lot of sense for a VR46 MotoGP team to start in 2021. Rossi is still a strong branding and would be able to bring in a lot of sponsorship $$$. If he starts the team without being one of the riders, then perhaps he would draw in less sponsorship $$$? Probably even Rossi doesn't know the answer to that question at this point.

This year we have 4 2020 Yamaha's. If we end up with 6 Yamaha's in 2020, would Yamaha field 4 2021 Yamahas and 2 2020 Yamaha's or 6 2021 Yamaha's?

In regards to Factory Yamaha they had the problem of 2 star riders under the risk of being poached while their 3rd star rider has declared that he won't make his mind up till mid season. So they could of lost one of those star riders, probably to Ducati then found out mid season that the 3rd rider has decided to retire leaving them with a hole in their line up.
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

There’s banter about Rins is about to sign with Suzuki. Another early one to prevent poaching but I haven’t heard about any interest in Rins
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p4p1
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Re: Silly Season

Post by p4p1 »

Mikesbytes wrote:There’s banter about Rins is about to sign with Suzuki. Another early one to prevent poaching but I haven’t heard about any interest in Rins
Ducati maybe? They failed to secure Mav or Fabio, Rins is a proven race winner and probably the next best option.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

With all the stuff that happened in 2019 for the 2020 season, this is the summary of actual changes, as documented on Crash, though it doesn't include Iannone
Johann Zarco, who split with KTM midway through last season, has moved to Avintia Ducati at the expense of Karel Abraham. With Binder taking up Zarco’s vacated spot at the factory KTM team, Lecuona has replaced Hafizh Syahrin at Tech3. Marquez steps in for Jorge Lorenzo at the world champions following the Spaniard’s dramatic retirement at the end of 2019.
Not that big considering all the fluff

Source: https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/93 ... otogp-2020
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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

Can I say that I'm looking forward to seeing Syahrin in Moto2. He was showing promise at the end of his last season particularly in wet races. He was promoted to MotoGP too soon in my opinion, though there are good reasons for that. I hope that his MotoGP experience and more experience in general will put him in contention for race wins and a tilt at the championship in Moto2.

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WayneG
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Re: Silly Season

Post by WayneG »

It has just been announced that Jorge Lorenzo will race as wildcard for Yamaha at Catalunya in June. I wonder what Honda think about this.
My first love was my motorbike, we went through everything together. Wind, rain, fences..

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Fingernails »

WayneG wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:07 pm
It has just been announced that Jorge Lorenzo will race as wildcard for Yamaha at Catalunya in June. I wonder what Honda think about this.
I personally think that Honda will be OK with this.

It'll be great to see Lorenzo on the track again.

AJracing
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Re: Silly Season

Post by AJracing »

AFAIC - EFF Honda. Jorge does what he wants! :lol:

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

I'm assuming this has put Rossi's decision on the back burner
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

By about 6 races into the season 3/4 of the 2021 slots would of been signed. If the current situation kills most or all of the season then its going to be even more complicated, Rossi being the main example
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Dave
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Dave »

Re: Silly Season.


This is the silliest season there ever was. or wasn't?

Japhrodisiac
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Japhrodisiac »

With Iannone out until mid-2021, unless he wins an appeal, that opens a spot on the factory Aprilia squad. Dovi has been talking down staying with Ducati, and there have been rumours of him jumping ship to Aprilia, but I also see Zarco in the mix potentially for that seat should he do relatively well on the Avintia bike. Or, maybe Jack Miller and Zarco are the factory riders at Ducati next year? SIlly season ain't over yet

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season

Post by Mikesbytes »

Unless Iannone's appeal is successful then he's pretty screwed. With most contracts will be for 2021 & 2022 it doesn't give Iannone a good opportunity to return in 2022

With Dovi having 3 second places for the last 3 years he can't be ignored, however he's getting older so for Aprilia it might be more a case of him being a great development rider who will reward the company with the odd podium. It wouldn't surprise me to see that more riders are interested in the new Aprilia considering how well the new bike did in testing
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bikermike
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Re: Silly Season

Post by bikermike »

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/93766 ... otogp-2020

Petronas starting their manoeuvring on Quatararo. I think that's the first open reference to "what if there is no racing this year?"

snowman
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Re: Silly Season

Post by snowman »

bikermike wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:47 am
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/93766 ... otogp-2020

Petronas starting their manoeuvring on Quatararo. I think that's the first open reference to "what if there is no racing this year?"
And has they've stated previously they really don't have much interest in Rossi or Lorenzo joining the team.

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