Silly Season

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
hdot
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by hdot »

He's there, its on the front page.

Seems like a match made in hell. Hopefully they bring good engines on the days he decides to ride.

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Morpheus
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Morpheus »

Glad to see Iannone going to Aprilia. They deserve each other.

Now we just need to get Dani onto the Petronas Yamaha. I think he would perform much better on an M1.
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warthog1
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by warthog1 »

Morpheus wrote:Glad to see Iannone going to Aprilia. They deserve each other.

Now we just need to get Dani onto the Petronas Yamaha. I think he would perform much better on an M1.
I read on speedweek he's calling it quits
Agree. It would have been good to see him on the yam.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Mikesbytes »

That pretty much wraps up the Silly season, factory bike wise except Miller formally signing for the GP19 which only injury can prevent.

Some Satellite bikes to go
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Jagbruno
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Jagbruno »

I would really be sad to see Dani go, I also think it would be seriously unfair. He still is without doubt one of the best riders in the world as well as one of the few real gentlemen on the paddock...I can understand Honda's decision to replace him by Lorenzo, who could very well be a winning gambit, but that no one else should give him a decent ride, I find incredible.

As written above, I cross fingers for him to be hired on one of those elusive satellite Yams, which could prove an ideal bike for his elegant riding style.

Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

Sad indeed. When the tyres work for him, not many of them can catch him.

He'd have to be the only rider with only one silly move to his name, and only in his first season...... So you'd have to forgive that.

Too much of a gentleman would be the only criticism you could level at him.

hdot
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by hdot »

Look, Dani is a great guy and his presence on the grid will be missed.

But he hasn't got a chip in 12 years; his injuries are piling up; and he's not getting any younger.

If things go well, Honda will keep him on as a test rider and a brand ambassador. He will probably get paychecks from Honda for the rest of his life. Not to mention all the millions he's made and the career he's had. He's going to be fine. Everyone has a time. I'd rather him go like this rather than by injury (or worse).

Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

Japhrodisiac wrote: Another member here wrote some good thoughts about how despite high hopes, for many years Suzuki always shoots themselves in the foot.

Me :-)


It hurts to be a Suzuki fan. Always get close, always do exactly what they shouldn't at crucial moments. Not sure if this is one of those moments or not yet.


As a Suzuki fan, it usually follows that you are also a Schwantz fan....which I am.
A fan of his riding. Most of the time he says things that are true, occasionally just expresses his opinion, right or wrong (Hey, don't we all. ;) ) Part of me thinks he just shot his mouth off in regards to Iannone, but the other part of me thinks his comments stem from his, and what he percieves should be every riders, work ethic. He rode a lot of shit Suzuki's over the years, dragged them to places they shouldn't be at, and smashed himself up pretty well along the way.

He never, ever shot his mouth off about the bikes, the team or the factory. He just turned up and worked hard to get to where he wanted to be.

The same can't be said of Iannone, particularly last season. Yes the bike, due to factory direction, took a turn for the worse. Rins, even if he does fall off alot, kept trying. Iannone showed a distinct lack of interest, or maybe more along the lines of what Schwantz said about him being clueless when it comes to setting up a bike/feedback, ie "Just give me what the other guy is riding".

Iannone left it to late too start showing how much he wanted to stay. A bit like Lorenzo some might say, but I'd disagree. Lorenzo has been trying the whole time. Iannone appears not to have been.
Tough one, because if he went out and crashed every weekend trying to get the most out of a pig he'd have still been a pariah , just with broken bones to boot.


Going with two inexperienced riders ? Well, Suzuki's budget doesn't consist of much, and I'd bet ( not knowing) that Iannone wasn't cheap. So like Lorenzo then, a whole lot of coin invested for not much return.

May as well pay peanuts (figuratively) to some young guys who really, really want to step up and give it everything, every race.

Young guys can't give the feedback and development/direction like an experienced rider ?

Shouldn't matter. Suzuki tend (historically) to not listen to a word of that from riders anyway.
Last edited by Fred Gassit on Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Morpheus
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Morpheus »

Mr Gassit, I totally agree. In pre-season, Iannone was riding around not looking particularly interested until one of the test riders came past him. All of a sudden he finds speed.
Miraculously, he was shite all last season until Rins started showing form and if you check the results you'll find he always made sure he finished in front of Alex. Suzuki were not that stupid that they didn't notice.
At Ducati, it was clear that Iannone was riding for himself and not the team. No surprise he was dropped over Dovi. He is clearly high maintenance and I suspect he rides to support his lifestyle. I think he needs to be in an Italian team where they are just as dysfunctional as him. Its a shame because it is a waste of a great talent. He has shown us what he can do when he tries.
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Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

I don't get the disinterest last season. I don't follow what goes on in riders private lives, but some have alluded to him having some distractions last year. Still, not an excuse at that level.

This season ? I'll still cut him some form of slack, in the sense that silly season seems to have started before the last race of last year was finished. I am probably very wrong, but I can't help but feel the likes of he and Lorenzo knew their days at their respective factories were already over, and in that I can see why Iannone "suddenly" upped his game.

Have to make sure you have some sort of viable employment going forward.


Still, it's Suzuki. Unless you have the ability to drag the thing kicking and screaming further up the order, with the exception of KRj's WC, a belief that you won't crash and hurt yourself and an ability to take the resultant injuries in your stride while still turning up to race, then Suzuki probably aren't the factory you want to ride for.


Sounds harsh ?


Suzuki fan.

Sheene, Schwantz got WC's…Roberts performance and WC was a lesson in consistancy…...other than those three, there's a whole lot of talented people who got frustrated, beat up and fell far short of what they were probably capable of.


Prediction ?


Next years Suzuki results will mirror last years. Not because of the riders either. In saying that, I'm already ready for the slating of Rins and Mir......but it really won't be their fault. They're out to take it to the world and show what they've got. They have one big problem, and it's not their "inexperience".

No concessions next year, and whole season for Suzuki to come up with "New and Improved" that throws this years success out the window and start with a whole new set of ideas.


Jaded ?


Nahhhhh. I'm a Suzuki fan. ;) :lol:

hdot
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by hdot »

I used to follow Iannone on IG. Whatever you think of his personal life... it's worse. The people he surrounds himself with, the way he spends his downtime... I get that everyone needs to unwind off the grid, but you can def take it too far. I forget which season he came in looking a bit fat....

He is the clearest demonstration of how talent is not enough. I think he could have been another Marquez in the right environment....

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Morpheus
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Morpheus »

I think you have to be aware of the conflicting motivations in the paddock. Dorna wants to see close racing at the highest level so lots of people will watch. The manufacturers don't want this. They want total world domination with all of their riders finishing a lap ahead of any other brand.

The riders want to win Championships (generally), although most realise that is not going to happen in all likelihood. And different riders have different approaches to their racing. For example, Rossi will not ride with the same mindset as Marquez.

From what I can see, the teams want both their riders to perform well and act in the best interests of the team - whether that be in developing the bike or getting results. Iannone and Lorenzo do not appear by their actions, to be terribly 'team' oriented. Fast, but self serving. Dovi seems quite different.

Ducati, and indeed all the manufacturers I believe would rather have 2 bikes on the podium consistently rather than 1 winning while the other is languishing at the rear of the field - as we see with HRC - because it gives the impression that only rider A is capable of riding that bike. It does not send a good message out to the motorcycle buying public - that there bikes are very hard to ride and only some alien who is prepared to ride over the edge of control can do it.
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Morpheus
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Morpheus »

I have just gone through the 2017 seasons results to see what Iannone was actually doing, and I have to say its not good reading. Here is an experienced and fast motoGP pilot.

Comparing the 2 Suzuki pilots round by round is a bit concerning, especially given that Rins was a rookie on a bike that did not have "Yamaha" written on the side of it.

Alex picked up a 9th in Qatar while Andrea dnf'd. Alex then was out for the next 6 races with a dnf and injury (not a good strategy when you need time on a new bike)

For these 6 rounds Andrea wobbled around mid pack with a best result of 7th (complaining about the bike - presumably it was a pig).

Alex was back at Assen and scored points in the next 9 consecutive races with mixed results (the first 2 races very bad) the best being 5th at Motegi. Andrea in the meantime was mixing finishing with not finishing and picked up a 4th at Motegi after a race long chase down of Alex. The last 3 rounds of the season saw Andrea with a 6th a 17th and a 7th, while Alex scored an 8th a dnf and a 4th, to beat Andrea just once in the season (at home).

The final standings had Iannone on 70 points for the season, 11 ahead of Rins on 59.

In Rins' rookie season he missed 5 races through injury and collected 11 points less than his more experienced and reputedly 'faster' team mate.

Based on that, I see no problem with Suzuki showing Iannone the door. There is no hard evidence from 2017 that Iannone was any faster than Rins when arguably he should have been.

Up until Motegi it looked like a mixed bag of results, but from then on, only one result outside the top 10 - Iannone 17th at Sepang.

Now, presumably Suzuki 'fixed' the engine for Motegi because from then on results improved. If they didn't make any changes was there actually anything wrong with it?
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Mikesbytes »

In 2017 they had the same engine rules as Ducati/Honda/Yamaha and they stuffed up the engine, which they had to live with throughout the season. It seemed that towards the end of the season they had some sort of workaround.

Andre seemed to have lost interest in getting the best out of a pig and that was unprofessional. Later in the season he seemed to have got back to it.

I put most of the blame with Suzuki for the 2017 season, they gave Aleix the flick and that meant the 2017 engine decision had to be made by the new riders, one was a rookie and the other was use to a completely different bike, the end result was the wrong engine being chosen.

Keeping Alex for 19/20 seems a sensible decision, he now has the experience to provide input into development, he is hungry as can be seen by his win it or bin it (by Suzuki standards) attitude this year.
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Morpheus
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Morpheus »

Mikesbytes wrote:In 2017 they had the same engine rules as Ducati/Honda/Yamaha and they stuffed up the engine, which they had to live with throughout the season. It seemed that towards the end of the season they had some sort of workaround.

Andre seemed to have lost interest in getting the best out of a pig and that was unprofessional. Later in the season he seemed to have got back to it.

I put most of the blame with Suzuki for the 2017 season, they gave Aleix the flick and that meant the 2017 engine decision had to be made by the new riders, one was a rookie and the other was use to a completely different bike, the end result was the wrong engine being chosen.

Keeping Alex for 19/20 seems a sensible decision, he now has the experience to provide input into development, he is hungry as can be seen by his win it or bin it (by Suzuki standards) attitude this year.
Yes, I was amazed Suzuki let Aleix go. He looked to be trying his best and had a great target to aim for in Maverick. I thought his results were very promising. For Suzuki to go "CTRL-ALT-DEL" and take 2 new riders was I decision I still struggle to see the wisdom of. Unless there were other unknown factors involved.
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Mikesbytes »

I suspect that with Vinales going so good, it made Aleix look bad but as you say we don't know the full story
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Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

Well, Mir is confirmed so there's only two things left in silly season, and one left for next season.

1. Pedrosa? Which ties into,
2. Petronas Yamaha?

And third,

How far down a wrong path can Suzuki go with next year's bike?

Japhrodisiac
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Japhrodisiac »

Silly season has been so silly that if you told me months ago that the rides and moves of Iannone, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Petrucci would all hinge mostly on the signing of Mir, someone that hasn't yet won a Moto2 race, I would have laughed.

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JanBros
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by JanBros »

Fred Gassit wrote: How far down a wrong path can Suzuki go with next year's bike?
As far as Honda, Ducati, Yamaha, Aprilia or KTM can.
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Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

Twice in the 33 years I've followed them they've proved that they fit that summation.

Or more accurately, they changed very little on the bike from the year before, so at least the team ad rider had a fair idea of how to work with/get the best out of what they had.

But sure, I' ll try glass half full..... For the 34th time.... ;) :D :lol:

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Tumi
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Tumi »

Japhrodisiac wrote:Silly season has been so silly that if you told me months ago that the rides and moves of Iannone, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Petrucci would all hinge mostly on the signing of Mir, someone that hasn't yet won a Moto2 race, I would have laughed.
Exactly what I've thought recently. I would rather call this stupid season. I have trouble to understand why, instead of rider A or B or C or D who would score a lot of points, a team would prefer rider E who has potential to score points. I understand rider E would be cheaper than aforementioned riders, but was this a competition to save money or to get the best results?

hdot
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by hdot »

Japhrodisiac wrote:Silly season has been so silly that if you told me months ago that the rides and moves of Iannone, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Petrucci would all hinge mostly on the signing of Mir, someone that hasn't yet won a Moto2 race, I would have laughed.
This is what I was wondering... not a name I've heard of, though I don't really follow the support classes.

Factories seem to engage in group think, and the chasing of young stars has seemed to hit a fever pitch.

Suzuki dumping Aleix was one of the dumbest team moves I've ever seen.

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CLX
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by CLX »

It would have been a lot less silly if Lorenzo had pulled a win out of the hat last year and if Suzuki had not gone with the wrong engine last season. I blame them.

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Fingernails
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fingernails »

In other news, Rea has signed again for Kawasaki in WSBK.

veroli
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by veroli »

Did Suzuki buy out Mir's contract ?
I thought he had a 4 year deal with Marc VDS and Honda ?
i know that buy outs happen but though honda would have just held on to him.
I guess there must have been release clauses

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