Silly Season

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Mikesbytes »

I'd like to see Rins, Iannone and Lorenzo at Suzuki but of course there's only 2 bikes

Performance wise this year so far its Iannone 1st, Rins & Lorenzo 2nd=

My gut feeling is that Iannone would go OK at almost any manufacturer where we know that Lorenzo prefers a certain type of bike. Rins I have no idea
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warthog1
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by warthog1 »

bikermike wrote:Smith is pretty much out of KTM at the end of the year isn't he? maybe a seat back in tech3

[stuff for the wrong thread removed- sorry...]
Sounds like no.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/89572 ... s-no-sense

Vmax666
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Vmax666 »

I’d like to see a fair amount of changes throughout to give some others a chance to show if they can make it in MotoGP
Bring in a few more from Moto 2 and from world sbk
Maybe even from some national championships
Or maybe the mid order riders will end up being pay to ride which would be a shame

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JanBros
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by JanBros »

that would imply you want some riders to leave and make the nescesary room.

Redding and Smith are the only ones that probably will have to leave. Luti needs to pick up his pace as he is on a 1 year contract so he is in danger. And Abraham, but that depends more on dady's efforts than his.
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Mikesbytes »

The way I see Abraham is that if he wasn't there, there would probably be one less bike on the grid. The GP16's are too slow, we are seeing that this year that a 2 year old bike can't cut it, so it's a little difficult to judge the performance of the two GP16 riders. However if Abraham was on a top factory bike I still wouldn't see him on the podium

What has become more noticeable is that in recent years we are getting more new riders in MotoGP than a few years back.
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snowman
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by snowman »

So here's a thought, Marquez said he wants the fastest team mate available, wouldn't that be Lorenzo :lol:

warthog1
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by warthog1 »

It would be.
Incompatible riding styles and personalities.
I can't see it happening but there would be fireworks. :)
I don't see him adapting well to the Honda.
Have a look at Jack on the Duke vs the Honda.

warthog1
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by warthog1 »

Marc saying he wants the fastest rider is him saying he is not scared of anyone.
With the implication that Rossi is.

hdot
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by hdot »

I dont think that is the implication at all, Rossi is MIA this year :mrgreen:

warthog1
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by warthog1 »

With word that Zarco was blocked at yamaha by VR46, that is the implication imo.
Given his performance on satellite machinery there is every possibility he'd have done even better with full factory support. It is hard to see how he would not.

Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

"Word ?" "Implication ?"

I read a bit. Haven't seen any reports of that. Got anything to back that up ? Given factory equipment would see him doing better ? I thought the word from all concerned at Yamaha was that the older bike was a better thing than last years or this years ?


Missing in action ? There's 18 points between 2nd in the championship, and Rossi in 6th place. Vinales is in third place in the championship. The Yamaha's to this point in the championship pretty much mirror their results at the same circuits last year, with the exception of Vinales's two wins (to the same point in time). Remember how he was going to win the championship last year ?

Dovi is 6 points in front of Rossi. Someone call the cops and tell them to look for Dovi as well as Rossi.

Either that, or stop making things up.

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pom
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by pom »

I'm not sure Bautista is that safe neither

Nieto told us a few days ago he was 99% sure to resign with Ducati and Maybe for 2 GP18 instead of 1GP18 + 1 GP17. so it could mean Abraham is out but Maybe Alvaro as well. I think it will depend from his results during next races. Nieto talked about signing a young gun from moto2 as well.

@fred Gassit : Current Tech3 machine is the same than last year (aka 2016 factory package) but with 500 more revs allowed. It's not the 2017 bike. The factory team is back to a 2016 chassis as well (or a light update of the 2016 chassis) with a 2018 engine. Fact is Zarco's pakage is closer to the factory package than last year. "more or less the same" says Jarvis. but what does mean "more or less" ? I heard Coulon talking about different suspensions for example. I wouldn't bet a lot of money tech3 and Movistar team are using exactly the same specs :)

Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

Exactly.

Then compare results and finishing times/distance to the winner. I'm not hanging on Zarco at all, but all this "He should get Rossi's seat/Rossi doesn't know what he's doing. Zarco is better etc" stuff from some is wearing a bit thin. The two factory Yamaha's results over the last season and a bit are more consistent at best, or the same at worst, than Zarco's results over the season. Both factory bikes out pointed Zarco in last years WC, despite more DNF's and a DNS.

When Zarco does well, it's because he's better. When they do better than him, it's because he's on a satellite bike.

Zarco's great. The unrealistic hype from some camps when talking about him isn't.



No, I'm not a Rossi fan. Pragmatism is where I'm at with riders.

Bautista ? I'm with you. He was going to be the next big thing once upon a time. I don't want, or think, he should get the flick, but based on results (trying to be pragmatic... ;) ) surely the team would get better bang for the buck with an up and comer out of moto2/3 ?

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Tourn46
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Tourn46 »

Fred Gassit wrote: When Zarco does well, it's because he's better. When they do better than him, it's because he's on a satellite bike.

Zarco's great. The unrealistic hype from some camps when talking about him isn't.
This is where I'm at too.

Race 1... 7 seconds behind the winner.
Race 2... great ride to second, but realistically he was the best part of 1 second a lap slower (along with everyone else) than bowling ball Marquez.
Race 3... 14 seconds behind the winner.
Race 4... 5 seconds behind the winner... yes 2nd place but there was a 3 man crash in front of him.

Yet there's constant talk of him taking the KTM to challenge Marquez? Don't get me wrong, we all love an underdog story, but even if he's the top performing Yamaha, he's not in the mix as much as you'd be lead to believe by reading into the hype. None of this means he's a bad rider, he's excellent, even if he is the top performing Yamaha... he's miles off in reality.

To keep some semblance of balance, I'd say this is much more due to the Yamaha problems that the gap is so large... Yamaha currently have a big, big problem and Zarco isn't currently a miracle cure, none of the riders are... which you have to say does point to the hardware/software.

I still think Marquez is a big step ahead of everyone, with the Dovi/Ducati combination next in line...

Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

I think the thing we're seeing is that the factory Yamaha is now only as good as a satellite Yamaha. Possibly the result of them staying, relatively/in comparison to the opposition, stagnant ? The Honda wasn't a great bike, nor the Ducati, a two seasons ago. The Yamaha was adequate. They've ( Honda-Ducati) improved a lot from where they were, the Yamaha is about where it was two seasons ago in terms of performance.I've also read somewhere that Yamaha weren't doing something with their electronics that Honda and Ducati have been, because they (Yamaha) misunderstood the rules and what they were/are allowed to do.

Tourn46 wrote:than bowling ball Marquez.
...
Speaking of which, just saw this (it's 4 days old) but haven't read anything about it. Anyone know if he has hurt himself ? Looks like it at first, but seems a bit calmer on the scooter.

Marquez Mugello crash.

https://youtu.be/sAZk8Na2sO4

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Tourn46
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Tourn46 »

Fred Gassit wrote: Marquez Mugello crash.

https://youtu.be/sAZk8Na2sO4
I think it was David who said (on Twitter) that he'd asked and that Marquez is absolutely fine.

Fred Gassit
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Fred Gassit »

Thanks. :)

Thought he looked okay on the scooter. Angry, but okay.

bikermike
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by bikermike »

warthog1 wrote:
bikermike wrote:Smith is pretty much out of KTM at the end of the year isn't he? maybe a seat back in tech3

[stuff for the wrong thread removed- sorry...]
Sounds like no.
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/89572 ... s-no-sense
I was just about to post that... :oops: Hardly surprising is it?

Feel sorry for him (he's got more racing[1] talent in his big toe than I have in my whole body, and has had a shot at the big time, he's being remembered for his failures...) Can't be nice to learn about your lack of employment in the press... I don't see him as having the character to do the sponsor engagement stuff much either.

[1]like Toseland, but he's even worse for being a talented musician as well. And apparently a nice chap too.

hdot
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by hdot »

I think Bradley will be OK in WSB or in a development role. He's still one of the ~30 best motorcycle riders in the world, someone will find a place for him. He seems to enjoy development more than racing anyway.

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Tourn46
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Tourn46 »

hdot wrote:I think Bradley will be OK in WSB or in a development role. He's still one of the ~30 best motorcycle riders in the world, someone will find a place for him. He seems to enjoy development more than racing anyway.
Bradley Smith...

125cc - 3 wins, 20 podiums, 9 pole positions (WC Runner Up in 2009)
Moto2 - 3 podiums (On the Tech3 Mistral)
MotoGP - 2 podiums (6th in the WC in 2015 with 181pts - better than Zarco's total last year...)

That's a record many riders would be envious of. I find it quite sad how dismissive people can be of Bradley Smith, I've seen comments about him far more shameful than the booing other riders get, yet it seems to be acceptable in his case... go figure.

hdot
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by hdot »

I think context is everything, and is something a lot of people throw away when convenient. Obviously Bradley is a great rider, but as I said about Pol earlier those high finishes in his early MotoGP days were helped a lot by the quality of the rest of the grid. There were maybe 4 race winners lining up instead of 9. So the grid is a lot more stacked and has shown Bradley's true level... which, while still higher than 99% of riders on the road isn't quite enough for MotoGP. Hardly an indictment of him and what he's accomplished, but it's the truth.

Riders who aren't on the pointy end in general get eviscerated, it's the nature of the beast. Those who can't yell, scream and throw food at their TV screens :mrgreen:

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Tourn46
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Tourn46 »

hdot wrote:I think context is everything, and is something a lot of people throw away when convenient. Obviously Bradley is a great rider, but as I said about Pol earlier those high finishes in his early MotoGP days were helped a lot by the quality of the rest of the grid. There were maybe 4 race winners lining up instead of 9. So the grid is a lot more stacked and has shown Bradley's true level... which, while still higher than 99% of riders on the road isn't quite enough for MotoGP. Hardly an indictment of him and what he's accomplished, but it's the truth.

Riders who aren't on the pointy end in general get eviscerated, it's the nature of the beast. Those who can't yell, scream and throw food at their TV screens :mrgreen:
Oh absolutely, I 100% agree with context, but the only true measurement, without all the ifs and buts is that he was there and he did it against the competition on the grid at that moment in time... he couldn't have done much more than he did, that's my point :)

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JanBros
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by JanBros »

all true, but if you make a comparison of Smith's results on Bridgestones vs Michelin's, you know why he is pointed to the exit.
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Vmax666
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Vmax666 »

I think both Redding and smith are good riders but need a change of scenery to find their confidence and enthusiasm.
Both are still young enough to explore new challenges and maybe return to MotoGP at a later date.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Silly Season 2018

Post by Mikesbytes »

JanBros wrote:all true, but if you make a comparison of Smith's results on Bridgestones vs Michelin's, you know why he is pointed to the exit.
I was thinking the same

Each time there's a significant change in MotoGP it suits some riders and not others. Tyres are a huge biggie

BTY I saw a comment that one of the Satellite Ducati teams is talking having two GP18's next year rather than one GP18 and one GP17. Is this an indication that we may have one less team running Ducati's next year?
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