Racing circuit pantheon

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
Apical
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Barcelona

Post by Apical »

Barcelona, how did the resurfacing & Removing & moving back the grandstands go. Apparently there is some car race on at Catalunya. It would be good to find out about the track. Any real news would be appreciated.
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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

F1 raced there and it still seemed the usual circuit.

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Tourn46
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Tourn46 »

CLX wrote:F1 raced there and it still seemed the usual circuit.
F1 always use that rubbish chicane anyway, even before they modified it for motorcycles.

I've not seen anything about it since the confirmation of changes and resurfacing going ahead.

Apical
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Isle of Man the Mountain circuit

Post by Apical »

I stumbled on this info & thought I should pass it on. The Isle of Man was part of the FIM world championship for 27 years.

" The Isle of Man TT was part of the FIM Motorcycle Grand Prix World Championship (now MotoGP) as the British round of the World Championship from 1949 to 1976, but safety concerns by some of the top riders caused it to be dropped from the world championship." Bob Dragich .
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Apical
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Catalunya Restored to greatness

Post by Apical »

Have had another look at the MotoGp race 2018. I think they have done a good job moving the grandstands, improving the run-off, gravel trap and re-surfacing the track. I have not heard any news about the bump in the braking area going into the second last corner. No news is good news I guess. Catalunya restored to the pantheon. YES !
Even the F1 left hander at the end of the back straight (Caixa) is an OK corner no problems there. It makes that part of the circuit slightly less hazardous.
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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

Coincidence or not, F1 dropped the old Nurburgring after 1976.

I wonder if anyone ever raced at both.

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

The turn 10 hairpin is fine given the safety considerations. Of course the original corner was better, with is swooping arc and very tricky nature. But you can't have it all with bikes as fast as these.

To be honest, I'm not entirely fond of the circuit. It's the spanish track I enjoy the least.

- Jerez has the incredible atmosphere and a terrific layout for a circuit so short.
- Aragon is the fastest of them all, has that great last corner, the inverted corckscrew and plenty of sweeping direction change.
- Valencia is tight and annoying, but it's theatre nature makes it more distinguished.
- Barcelona is okay, has elevation changes, but seems to be the result of several calculated compass drawn corners strung together. I just can't love it. It's not a bad place. But not memorable.
Last edited by CLX on Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kenup283
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by kenup283 »

CLX wrote:Coincidence or not, F1 dropped the old Nurburgring after 1976.

I wonder if anyone ever raced at both.
Surtees and Hailwood are sure bets, I’m sure there are others too but what these two did will never be matched.

76’ was the year finally it came to a head, top drivers and riders trying to boycott both, then a friend of Agos went off at the veranda corners on IOM (think Connor Cummings) and also Niki Lauda had his famous burning crash saved only by fellow racers. Which reminds me now of the kinda recent movie “Rush” if you haven’t seen it worth checking out.

Part of the reasons for such long historic courses going away was the inability to marshall and respond effectively to injured racers. The IOM has in recent years benefited from a group of doctors on motorcycles who get to the riders quickly to stablize them, but this is not also without risk as Dr John Hinds who was a large part of this passed a few years back.

Without the details known yet we recently had this year a rider critically injured at the IOM when hit by an emergency response vehicle trying to get to the scene of an accident that ultimately claimed the life of the first rider which brought out the red flag. I mention this as even today rapid response and marshallng on such tracks is not without its challenges.

That said this thread has me somewhat confused, is there anything in particular we are looking for here or are we just naming random tracks we like?

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Tourn46
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Tourn46 »

kenup283 wrote: That said this thread has me somewhat confused, is there anything in particular we are looking for here or are we just naming random tracks we like?
I not really sure either, must admit.

bikermike
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by bikermike »

Dr John (RIP) was the Ulster road races. On the island it’s normally a helicopter that takes people back.

The recent incident with Steve Mercer looks to be a horrendous foul-up, it’s very rare to allow course cars on the circuit. The intention at the island has always been to keep anything other than racebikes off the road until all bikes are off at the Grandstand

Re the overall thread, I think the point is to try to tease out what makes some tracks "great"

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

kenup283 wrote:
That said this thread has me somewhat confused, is there anything in particular we are looking for here or are we just naming random tracks we like?

I take it more as a 'let's talk about circuits'.

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Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

Hello kenup283 & Tourn46, Thanks for your feedback. "this thread has me somewhat confused, is there anything in particular we are looking for here or are we just naming random tracks we like?" Not looking for anything in particular. The idea of classic tracks came up & I thought it would be a good topic for the forum.

From my point of view this topic is about circuits that we like, tracks where great racing has occurred, places that are part of history. The modern era of grand prix motorcycle racing goes back to 1949. WSBK goes back to 1988. And plenty of "superbike" racing before then. History was a major part of my motivation to contribute to this.

When I read about Barry Sheene for example, there are references to the circuits that were raced on, then I want to know more about the venues. By putting stuff on here & reading the comments I get to learn more about one of my favourite things.

Partly I was interested to find out more info regarding current racetracks, to help me choose where to go when I travel to the races. Hidden valley, Darwin N.T. this weekend for the Aussie superbikes & support classes. I've never been there & this is their only major bike meeting I'm aware of this year.

I wasn't just naming random tracks, although anyone is welcome to suggest a circuit or put up a list of fave Autodromos. Go ahead.

Not trying to rate or rank the tracks. Mainly interested in finding out more about the circuits. I have never been to the U.S. but I know I want to get to Laguna. there are a lot of other circuits in America & I don't know much about most of them. I want to learn a bit more so when I do organize myself to get to Laguna Seca I have an idea of where else I want to go.
I have been to the U.K. once. I could spend all summer checking out racetracks in the U.K. & not get to all of them. More info from people who have been there would help me decide which tracks I want to visit v lower priorities.

Thanks CLX You put it succinctly " I take it more as a 'let's talk about circuits'."

Thank you to BikerMike "Re the overall thread, I think the point is to try to tease out what makes some tracks "great"" well put.
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bikermike
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by bikermike »

"I have been to the U.K. once. I could spend all summer checking out racetracks in the U.K. & not get to all of them. More info from people who have been there would help me decide which tracks I want to visit v lower priorities."
What do you want to see/do?

My tips
The obivous is the Island (note, it's not part of the UK btw. And don't call the island with England and Scotland on it "the mainland") it is one of, if not the last of the long racing circuits. As an interesting aside, when it started, there gates to be opened, and unmade roads. If things had gone differently, it could be a dakar-like race.

Cadwell Park (not least becuase you can do trackdays on it) - it is one of the few UK circuits that didn't start off a bomber air field, so it winds it's way through the countryside. If you stand at Hall bends it's rather like a country road. And there's the mountain - ever seen a superbike fly? (and if you've seen Rush, the first crash between Hunt and Lauda is on Barn corner pretending to be Silverstone(?))

There's more history than you can shake a big stick at in most UK circuits, but Cadders has managed to keep more of the feel (mainly becuase top-level cars can't race there, so there aren't the acres of run-off). It is in the *rse-end of nowhere though.

Scarborough/Aberdare for English road-racers (assuimg Scarborough can get going again)

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RatsMC
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by RatsMC »

I am surprised so many people mention Jerez, while there have been some great battles there, that seem more the result of Spanish riders going harder than normal because the crowd is completely apes**t. Overall, it is an underwhelming track without much scenery to hide that fact.

I was glad at least someone mentioned Istanbul. I am truly sad we only got to see a single race and that track. I am not a fan of Tilke but this is one he got right.

Motegi, is a test track - it is designed to test cars not inspire bravery or rhythm. It would never be on the calendar except they need a Japanese round.

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

I like Jerez.
For a shorter and tighter track, it has a terrific variation in its corners. There are fast and slow corners left and right with reasonable elevation change. Another huge factor in liking it is that it's one of the best circuits in terms of balancing overtaking spots while putting a premium on clever defensive riding. It's hard to find, most new circuits have those huge straights which facilitate overtaking but unfortunately leave some riders defenseless.

And it's also suited to all three classes.

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Tourn46
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Tourn46 »

RatsMC wrote: Motegi, is a test track - it is designed to test cars not inspire bravery or rhythm. It would never be on the calendar except they need a Japanese round.
Long time no see Rats, welcome back.

Couldn't agree more about Motegi, I wouldn't miss it if MotoGP never went there again.

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RatsMC
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by RatsMC »

Tourn46 wrote: Long time no see Rats, welcome back.
Glad to be back. The racing got good so I had to stop watching because I'd have nothing to complain about. :lol:

Japhrodisiac
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Japhrodisiac »

RatsMC wrote:
Tourn46 wrote: Long time no see Rats, welcome back.
Glad to be back. The racing got good so I had to stop watching because I'd have nothing to complain about. :lol:
Welcome back Rats

Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

Re; Jerez thanks for your input, I will leave it as is for the mo.

Welcome back RatsMC and I value your opinion regarding Jerez. Obviously I will need to attend the MotoGp there next year before I make my decision. Andalusia seems like it might be nice enough.

I like Jerez because it has been on the calendar for a long time, It is one of the first of the tracks I learned without actually going there & riding it. Over the years there have been some good races at Jerez.

News has suggested a circuit might be built in north Queensland Australia. What i have seen says the track will bee 33kms. That's different. Atherton tableland west of Cairns & Cairns international airport. we'll see.
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What the hell are those Formula Boring people doing to ASSEN

Post by Apical »

What the F1 are the Formula boring people talking about. Sacrilege !

this is bad news.
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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

The A1/Red Bull Ring is still unimpressive and tame compred to its old self, but 3 out of 3 in terms of great races redeem it somewhat.

The rain images from Friday were impressive, but I would not like to see a wet race there. The turn 2 kink reminds me of the Mugello front straight bends; apparently easy and flat out, but if it ever goes wrong, it'll go wrong big time.

To think Red Bull had the time and money to destroy and reconstruct the circuit, and then they built the exact same thing there was there before. Too bad...

Edit: great races at the sharp end. Everywhere else the field just spreads itself.

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hdot
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by hdot »

Can someone explain the Nurburgring GP hate? I've done a lot of sim racing there and it's OK. Kind of like Brno but with more hairpins and tighter chicanes.

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

You said it. Hairpins and chincanes. Also, I think the weather is usually poor and plays a large part in people disliking it.

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hdot
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by hdot »

I mean, I love fast sweeping corners like any other red blooded male, but I think Nurburgring GP strikes a decent balance. There are opportunities to pass, unlike a beautiful but 1 line circuit like Brands Hatch, but it's no Tilke monstrosity like a Yas Marina or something similarly jagged and awful. The weather is legit though if it is regularly bad.

I think an interesting thread would be to redo the calendar. 5 Asian races, 5 European races, 2 Australian races, 2 South American races, 4 North American races. In fact I'm gonna go ahead and make that thread.

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

hdot wrote:I think an interesting thread would be to redo the calendar. 5 Asian races, 5 European races, 2 Australian races, 2 South American races, 4 North American races. In fact I'm gonna go ahead and make that thread.
I like the your idea but I'd prefer to see the original principal of one race per country. Having said that, its not going to happen as $$$ speak larger than principals

BTW you missed Africa, Middle East and thinking out aloud, how about 1 race in Australia and the other race in New Zealand?, though I'm not sure that NZ has a world class track
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