Racing circuit pantheon

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
Apical
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Re: Resurfacing classic tracks.

Post by Apical »

Resurfacing seems very fashionable these days. Catalunya, Jerez & Silverstone all been renovated recently.

The lap times from the Moto2 test indicate that Jerez is now faster than before.

I am very interested to hear how the work at Catalunya montemelo circuit is going or how it went. Do any of my fellow fanatics know? How did the changes turn out? Some real ground knowledge would be good. or we can all wait until the next race at Catalunya, & check it out then.

I was somewhat surprised to see Silverspoon was resurfaced in the middle of winter. I do hope it works out well. Looked like a very professional job compared to some road making I have seen.
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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
CLX wrote:I'm a huge fan of Aragon.
As far as brand new contemporary circuits go, we can't expect much more. Fast corners left and right, nice overtaking spots, elevation changes, long fast corners and it is overall genuinely fast.
Have you been to Aragon before CLX?

Was thinking of a trip for this coming year, but wanted to check what the viewing was like at the track. Also, if there is much to do away from the track. Looks very pretty on the tourist sites (all the medieval history and the like).
Nops, never. The last circuit I have been to was Interlagos for the 2010 F1 GP.

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Apical
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R.I.P. Ralf Waldmann Too soon Only 51 too young

Post by Apical »

R.I.P. Ralf Waldmann. Too soon. Only 51 too young!

Would you believe that most of Waldi's obituaries suggest Donington 2000 250 GP as Ralf Waldmann's best race. What would I know; posting.php?mode=quote&f=2&p=85160

Ralf won in Australia at both Eastern creek & Phillip island.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

Apical wrote:Classic races at Donington. Ralf Waldmann in 2000 on an Aprilia 250 came from a long way back. Almost a lap down & made a good race, picked up a good result. the race went right to the last lap, final corner, very tasty!
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

Apical
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R.I.P. Ralf Waldmann

Post by Apical »

Oops that didn't work sorry Ralf sorry everybody,

"Classic races at Donington. Ralf Waldmann in 2000 on an Aprilia 250 came from a long way back. Almost a lap down & made a good race, picked up a good result. the race went right to the last lap, final corner, very tasty!"

That is what I was trying to do.

Lemmy try that again. I think it will come up as a separate post. oops
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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

Suspected heart attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralf_Waldmann

I remember watching Waldmann race at Eastern Creek, he did a great ride there. And 50 podiums from 169 starts is a dam good record
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Really, really sad news to hear. That's no age at all.

Ralph's booming voice and loud personality, don't think there was anyone else quite like him in the paddock. And that race at Donington in the wet was the thing of legend, and I don't think Jacque new what had hit him!

Apical
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Mugello at Risk

Post by Apical »

Today David Emmett tweeted "MotoGP is on the verge of losing Mugello due to speeds (top speeds and corner speeds) getting too high. It's been verging on unsafe for years. Not the track's fault, fault of the bikes."

Remember when the surface at Mugello was sub-standard? Bumpy & rough. Many riders complained, nothing happened. Then Valentino Rossi crashed on the bumps at Biondetti. V.R.46 broke his leg. Then they decided to resurface the track.

The MotoGp bikes getting too fast, No! We must save Mugello! How can we do it? We must keep running MotoGp at Mugello at least for 2019. I can't get there this year , I will be on the Isle of Man when Mugello goes off this year. So I must visit Mugello in 2019.

They cannot take Mugello away from us yet. N0. Too fast, scarey fast is what we want isn't it ?
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

Someone tell FIAT to cough up some change and do whatever it takes.

Or go nuclear and return to the 500cc two strokes. It would take a while for the bike to get as fast as they are now.

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On a serious note, what would be the practical effect of increasing the minimum weight of the bikes in an attempt to make them slower?
We all know making the engines smaller is a death trap.

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speeddog
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by speeddog »

Increasing minimum weight would make the problem worse.

MotoGP bikes are currently wheelie limited 'til 4th gear or more, so the ECU is trimming power to keep the front wheel close to the ground.
Increased weight provides more traction and combats wheelie due to it's existence, so the ECU will trim less power, same wheelie level will be the result.

The increased load and power taxes the rear tire more, and the front tire and brakes will suffer stopping and turning the extra bulk.

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JanBros
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by JanBros »

rev limit's to the level of standard bikes. no point in developping engines that can turn 18.000 rpm as they make too much noise for street use. so there can not be an R&D argument .
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Apical
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is Termas Good enough for the pantheon?

Post by Apical »

Question, is Termas De Rio Hondo good enough for the pantheon? I really like the layout & the corners. Some nice complex curves.
We have seen some great races, some collisions & quite a few crashes over the last 4 years.
Yes turn 13 provides opportunities to pass or ram through. As well as some other overtaking spots.

But the track seems to take a long time to dry. Even when most of the circuit is dry enough for slicks, there are still rivers running across the track.
Drainage is a simple concept. We have been building roads for a long time. We have had racing circuits for 100 years roughly. Why does the water flow across the track?

Is the tarmac good enough, a large section has been resurfaced already after only a few years. Is the bitumen mix part of the problem with not drying out?

Location, accessibility, value for money once at the town. If Kropotkin decided not to travel to Termas that suggests it is a big hassle & rather pricey.
Do they have adequate buildings & infrastructure? seemed to be a lot of tents & marquees up on race day.

I am not sure Termas De Rio Hondo is of a high enough standard to make the cut. I guess Dorna considers it financially viable.

Please tell me what you think.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

Its the only race on the entire continent. To ditch it means either having an entire continent with no race or finding another circuit
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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

Valencia doesn't dry as fast either, Sepang had lots of problems as well a short time ago.

Termas Rio Hondo is fine. Actually, better than fine. It's great.

My current top 5 MotoGP circuits list goes Phillip Island, Mugello, Assen, Termas Rio Hondo and Aragon.

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bikermike
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by bikermike »

I always prefer to race uphill (for those that know UK circuits, I love the 2nd half of the back curves of Donington, Park/Charlies/Park "Straight" at Cadwell, and hate the Corkscrew at Angelesy), so that uphill complex at Termas looks rather fun.

I'm not too sure about the drying though - damp "patches" will always happen, but for a continuous damp line right outside the dry line is a bit iffy.

Apical
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Thanks for the feedback. Termas makes the cut.

Post by Apical »

Thank youse all for the feedback. Termas makes the cut. Great layout.

South America certainly deserves a round or two. I was wondering, mainly about getting there. the previous circuits at Rio & Buenos Aires where easier to get to being close to the capitals. Would like to visit Termas for the race. I should have enough time to get organized for 2019.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

Emoo
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Emoo »

CLX wrote:Valencia doesn't dry as fast either, Sepang had lots of problems as well a short time ago.

Termas Rio Hondo is fine. Actually, better than fine. It's great.

My current top 5 MotoGP circuits list goes Phillip Island, Mugello, Assen, Termas Rio Hondo and Aragon.
Great top 5 CLX, although could I include a 5.1 for Sachsenring?

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

I dunno, I think my 5.1 is Silverstone.

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GraPie
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by GraPie »

Here's my two cents on the subject:

In no particular order BTW.

Jerez
Spa
Monza
Catalunya(the old Moto GP layout)
Interlagos
Assen
Misano
Imola
Philip Island
Motegi
Suzuka


GP

Apical
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Hi GraPie thanks for the feedback. Misano? Motegi??

Post by Apical »

I tend to agree with most of them. But not keen on Misano Adriatico di San Marino & Rimini, Marco Simmoncelli world circuit (Autodromo Santamonica). the name is too long for a start. It has been changed & they even reversed the direction of racing. We will see what the consensus is.

Motegi? really? Five drag strips of various lengths connected by some mediocre turns. The turn after going through the first tunnel is good (Turn 6 ?). Even the next 3 after that make a nice complex, OK. Then from the end of the back straight thru the 90 degree corner & the last complex before the finish line is fun. I don't think Motegi is quite up there compared to Spa , Monza, the real TT circuit at Assen (the 6km version) or P.I.etc.

Could anyone ever compare Mugello to Motegi ?

I would rather do laps around Suzuka than Motegi, but that's just me. As I have posted previously It's not my decision which circuits make the cut. I am not sure how we decide what should be in the pantheon. it is not my decision. I really enjoy the topic.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

GraPie
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by GraPie »

Hi Bro.

I don't know why Motegi appeals to me the way it does.

I like the right hander coming out of the first tunnel, then the quick left/right coming out of the second tunnel.

The 90 degree right hander at the end of the back straight, in my opinion, is awesome. It it demonstrates the Bike's and the rider's ability to control under heavy braking and then acceleration out.

The weather there is crappy a lot of times.
I love the Japanese people.
The Race at Motegi usually goes a long way in sorting out the championship.

As for Misano? I guess I just love that part of Italia.


Cheers,
GP

Apical
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Righto then.

Post by Apical »

Such a persuasive defense GraPie. I will add Motegi. I have added Motegi & Imola. I can just edit the list.

Any one is welcome to put up your own list.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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JanBros
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by JanBros »

purely from the track lay-out : Gedinne in Belgium. It's fast and flowing , goes up and down and is a real racing circuit that follows the landscape, not a computer-designed "let's not make it too dangerous". The lay-out is at least on par with Francorchamps but it is a road-race-track, so it's not the safest that's for sure. it's only main use these days is for classic racing.

I have a +/-500km tour through the Belgian Ardens, and each time I pass through Gedinne and do a lap 8-)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ci ... ORM=VRDGAR
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Apical
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Gedinne circuit

Post by Apical »

Thanks JanBros Gedinne looks good. I have never heard of it before. Great location by the looks of it, Green hills, pastures & forest, very nice. Five kilometers of corners. It seems it is a public road most of the time. Classic race meeting coming up in August. Real road racing I like that. like the TT, Spa, Mount Panorama etc.
Thanks for the info.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

GraPie
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Re: Righto then.

Post by GraPie »

Apical wrote:Such a persuasive defense GraPie. I will add Motegi. I have added Motegi & Imola. I can just edit the list.

Any one is welcome to put up your own list.
Thanks Apical !!!

Just don't ask me to defend COTA

It's by far my LEAST favorite circuit on the calendar

Cheers from Arizona



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