Racing circuit pantheon

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon P.I.

Post by Apical »

Greetings people & germs. How are you getting on?
There was a post on this topic regarding good viewing places at Phillip island circuit. Don't remember who it was & can't find that comment at the moment.

I have been going to P. I. since 1989. In February I discovered another good spot; outside the track between Siberia & the Hayshed (yes there is a big shed there). At this point it's possible to see the bikes on the main straight, through Doohan corner, all of southern loop, Stoner corner, then the entry to turn four. We can see Siberia, through the Hayshed & over Lukey Heights. Then a glimpse of the run through turn 12.

If you get a good spot on the fence where you can see a big screen you can follow the action quite well.

It's good to learn something new.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

Apical
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Motegi dropped; anyone care!

Post by Apical »

The motorcycle GP at Motegi has been called off, & will not take place this year, despite the importance of the race to the Japanese manufacturers.

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2020/06/ ... led/331191

Not quite as prestigious as the Suzuka 8 hour race but rather special. The event not the circuit.

Does anyone care? We have seen some great racing at Motegi over the years.

Spoiler in my next sentence





Alex (dangerous) de Angelis & Toni (the tiger) Elias not playing nicely at the hairpin? On two-fifties iirc

Remember Dovi & Marquez in the wet. Last lap last corner excitement?

Not one of my favorite circuits although I enjoy it on the video game.

While we wait for some real action please let me know what you think of Motegi.

This topic is the place to talk about the race tracks themselves.
The varying character of different tracks.
what makes a good circuit for motorcycle racing
Great venues of the past, lost circuits, racing history.
Praise or criticize the new motordromes being built now.
You can let us know what is happening at Mandalika or Kimmiring.
Like this post that is from the MotoGp & corona virus forum; viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5972&start=100
I've cut it up so you get the idea, thanks Tumi.

I visited Kymiring yesterday evening - not the actual track, it has been fenced and main gate is far enough from pit so I didn't bother to try to sneak in and walk that far. I took just two pics from adjoining highway.
Start/ finish straight in front of the pits, then first turns to 1.1 km back straight towards left. Track itself was claimed to be ready for homologation which it lacks at the moment, the rest of stuff were to be temporarily fixed for this July, for example there would've been no permanent grandstands.

Wash your hands & ride as much as you can.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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Fingernails
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Fingernails »

I would presume that many if not most 'long haul' races will be called off this year. The logistics of transporting people around the world are going to severely constrain any season that we get.

I'd much prefer no racing than we get racing happening in an unsafe way that spreads the infection further. With closed-door racing and ease of testing it should be possible to do something. If that 'something' doesn't include races that require air travel then I don't think that's the end of the world. In my opinion we should look at any racing we get from a glass half full perspective. Not glass half empty.

If there was a motor race in Japan and then a cluster of infections related to it, then that may reflect badly on the Japanese manufacturers supporting the race, and they may not want that.

Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

Found some more wisdom from Kropotkin; when asked (by CLX) regarding Mugello "What is it that makes the races so close? Lack of first gear hairpins?"

Krop posted "Actually, first gear hairpins can work in favor of good racing too. It just depends on where they're placed.

But the secret to Mugello is the number of corners with multiple lines through them. The tracks which produce the best racing have combinations of corners, where you can repass someone if they get past you in the first part of the turn. That's almost every corner at Mugello."

Thanks for your insight Kropotkin. I think Phillip island is similar, the corners have more than one line & flow together fairly well.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

bikermike
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by bikermike »

The problem with first gear hairpins now is that they are being used to limit overall speed on a circuit, and to fit more circuit in a given space.

The revisions to Snetterton (for UK readers) a few years ago is a case in point - a former airfield circuit which was essentially a battered oblong suddenly becomes spaghetti with an infield section added for length (and to allow 3 different permutations), and the track is now three separate sections split up by hairpins. Compare with the back section of Donington or the run from the Barn to Gooseneck at Cadwell.

As bikes get faster, risks get higher and something has to change. You either end up a long way from the track or you need to slow them down.

Apical
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Re: Catalunya, la Caixa, SMSP

Post by Apical »

After watching SBK and MotoGp at Catalunya recently, I want the real turn 10 back! La Caixa. It is only because of formula yawn that the real turn 10 has been ruined. The mickey mouse chicane at turns 13, 14 & 15, before the final turn onto the straight. This abomination has taken away some of the run off area. I was very disappointed to see Jorge Lorenzo demolish most of the championship contenders there in 2019. When I was at the circuit. Very sad.
It was good to see Fabio Q ride around the correct corner on his victory lap.

Eastern creek aka (western) Sydney motorsports park. I went back and did a track day at SMSP recently. It was better than I remembered.
After racing there in the past for a season & a half or so I had found the layout not all that interesting. Always loved turn 1 because it's fast!
On a different bike, with 6 gears rather than 5, SMSP was entertaining and challenging. Took a while to get into a rhythm again. rode the original circuit without the extra bit after the lake & before the hairpin under the powerlines. Did about fifty laps and had lots of fun.

Yes I like SMSP, but I don't think it is worthy of a place in the pantheon.

What do you think?
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

Turn 10 was a dangerous place and the wall to close. Remember Marc's 2015 crash chasing Lorenzo. I don't think it'll ever return.

-----
Everything we consider fiction is reality somewhere else. This is somewhere's fiction.

Apical
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Portimão pantheon worthy

Post by Apical »

Wow ! MotoGp bikes make Portimão look even more awesome. Check this out.

https://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2020/1 ... mao/358056

As our friend Motoshrink said on the main site "How wonderful is this TRACK!?! Not exaggerating, we have been blessed with a great gift to treasure. Fookda Tilkes, THIS is motorcycle racing."

I am loving it! The races on Sunday will be fun to watch. A lot of fun I hope. Fast learners will be faster.

Then not much, the off season. No Macau Gp. Not sure what is happening in NZ, usually some racing in the shaky isles in December & January.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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Mikesbytes
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Mikesbytes »

A lap of Portimao by Miller https://youtu.be/wXCGsBwIFTg
My signature isn't particularly interesting

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Really hoping Portimao gets added to the GP calendar regularly!

Knowing how the cameras flatten somewhere like Brno, I bet those up and downhills have really got some gradient, would be great to see in person.

Looks like a lovely part of the world too.

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Fingernails
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Fingernails »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:02 pm
Really hoping Portimao gets added to the GP calendar regularly!
I bet Olivera is hoping that too!

Schwantz34
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Schwantz34 »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:02 pm
Really hoping Portimao gets added to the GP calendar regularly!

Knowing how the cameras flatten somewhere like Brno, I bet those up and downhills have really got some gradient, would be great to see in person.

Looks like a lovely part of the world too.
The Algarve is lovely most of the year round. Stayed in Praia da Rocha next to Portimao in 2009 and went to WSB final round.

That crest after turn 8 has an incredibly steep drop, such a shame that there is so much wheelie control these days. The stock 1000 riders in 2009 were the most spectacular over there because they had none!!

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

Portimao looked fantastic for bikes. Riders had very little time to rest each lap.

-----
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Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

CLX wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:08 am
Portimao looked fantastic for bikes. Riders had very little time to rest each lap.
Yes it did look like a great track CLX.

Some news regarding Catalunya Barcelona.

https://www.gpone.com/en/2020/12/18/mot ... refresh_ce

Looks as if we may get the beautiful version of La Caixa Turn 10 back. Somewhat modified as far as I can tell. Adios the "supermarket corner".
After being at the track in 2019 when Jorge Lorenzo skittled Valentino, Dovi, Mav and himself, my dislike of the modified turn 10 increased.
I for one will be happy to see the layout at Montmeló improved. Whether the proposed changes will turn out to be better remains to be seen.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

Apical
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Re: Beautiful Barcelona

Post by Apical »

Looks like the shopping center carpark corner is no more. Gone & good riddance.
The MotoGp website has a short video.

https://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2021/0 ... 0274&jb=52

Catalunya Montmeló is or has been modified. Some of the commentary in the video is hard to hear. I think I heard that they have made a new turn 10 between the original and the more recent 10 & 11.
It was stated they would be finished the civil works and drainage on Sunday. Which I assume is today.
It was said that they "cannot move the first line of protection" so to " improve safety " they moved the corner. The braking point will be earlier than for the original curve. So slightly shorter back straight.
They say it's a constant speed corner and the lap time will be lower. "Drainage the same as before "

I'm a happy motorcycle racing tragic.
So far so good, hopefully less crashes. Laptimes will tell.
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

Apical
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by Apical »

We have a new turn 10 at Montmelo Barcelona Catalunya. I hope it turns out to be a good one. If the racing is good there I will be happy
What do you think CLX?
CLX wrote:
Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:36 am
Turn 10 was a dangerous place and the wall to close. Remember Marc's 2015 crash chasing Lorenzo. I don't think it'll ever return.
QATAR Do you think the track is worthy of inclusion in the pantheon? I reckon it is. The long fast front straight is balanced by the curves & corners of the back part of the track. Good handling bikes like Yamaha & Suzuki can make the lap time in the bends. Ducati riders can make a laptime on the straight.
As the very wise Kenup 283 wrote " Lorenzo used to put on a clinic here year after year for being quickest lap time with slowest top speed and still winning the race, but he’d take off like a scolded cat and be on the pace from turn two onwards."
Never mind the heat, the sand, the wind and don't mention the geo-political situation or the sports washing of human rights violations. Forget the systemic mistreatment of various minorities.
What do you think about the circuit?
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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CLX
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by CLX »

Qatar?
Racing tends to be good, but it's not a track I think of when I want to picture the best. It's top notch for MotoGP as far as modern tracks go.

I wish they raced in the day instead of at night there.

-----
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

But then the tyres would melt and bikes set on fire :P (unless they raced in the autumn or winter there?)

I think it's one of those tracks that definitely looks better on TV than it would be in person. I know in the early days you just had a small number of ex-pats and oil workers at the race and more atmosphere on the moon, but I guess that is changing now.

I do love the look of the bikes under the lights though, that Ducati red.. wow

Apical
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Magic menacing Mugello

Post by Apical »

Thinking about Mugello has got me all excited again.

What a great circuit! we are lucky to have it. Lucky to still be racing there too. So fast. Scary fast!

Don't mess with the Autodromo Internazionale del Mugello !
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Racing circuit pantheon

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Me too, it looks amazing.

I went once in 2004 and would definitely say it's at my top 3 race track experiences. Used to be quite difficult to get to, wandered into a cafe in a local village and there was a policeman sat in there reading a paper that gave me a lift (I love how provincial parts of Italy are!) There is nothing visible at all, and then suddenly you come over the crest of a hill and there is this circuit in the valley and the noise of the bikes. I'm sure you've read about all of the fans hooking anything with an engine to megaphone exhauts and revving them until they explode.. it's so mental, you find your foot square piece of grass to sit on the hillside and make sure you don't move. Some lugging around a massive yellow toilet with Biaggi number 3 written on the loo seat..

The race was similarly mental, one that was red-flagged due to rain, then re-started think there must have 4 or 5 different people in the lead over the course of the few laps remaining (everyone was on slicks and it started to rain again); Bayliss, Byrne, Abe, think all lead at different times, Rossi took the lead on the last lap and won and then there was a massive track invasion - absolutely mental but such a worthwhile experience, would definitely recommend it if you get the chance to come to Europe!

Apical
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Re: Red Flag ring in the pantheon?

Post by Apical »

Should we consider the RedFlagring's eligibility to join the pantheon?
Spellchecker suggests Redlining as an alternative spelling. Meaning Österreichring, A-1ring, whatever, at Spielberg, Syria, Austria (no kangaroos).

Best and fastest motorcycle low altitude flying, with & without wings.

Honorable mention for last corner passes deciding the race result.

Walls so sturdy even Maverick Vinales couldn't knock one down with his Yamaha factory battering RAM-1

Most ludicrous track re-make, re-model and re-invention of itself as.... TAH DAH !! Almost exactly the same dumb layout.
The stupid layout that aims 300km/h+ vehicles at the apex of a slow corner.
We were so lucky last year! Franky Morbidelli, Valentino Rossi, Maverick and Johann Zarco. They were lucky to.

Maybe not worthy of the pantheon of great motorcycle racing circuits. Could have been a contender, coulda had class, coulda been something special.

What say you?
"Faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death," Hunter S Thompson

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