Agostini vs Rossi

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
Dayle88
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Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Dayle88 »

Valentino Rossi needs 11 wins out of the 51 races we know he is contracted for to beat Ago's record. It's been a long time since it was discussed because it seemed like an impossibility five years ago. What does everybody think now?

I think he gets close without another championship but if he beats the record it will come with a tenth title whether or not they actually happen in the same season.

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CLX
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by CLX »

Honestly, seems like a coin toss at this point.
But I think it's more likely than another title.

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AJracing
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by AJracing »

In the last 3 years he has won 7 races out of 54....I highly doubt he will beat that record but anything can happen..
In my mind... he is the greatest...I followed the sport since 2011 and have rewatched the entire motogp feed going back to 92. Even then I can't tell who would better compared to rossi... as I was born in 87. . I am what you call a nube to the sport.

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Albert
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Albert »

Even with my Yellow tinted spectacle on ;) I honestly can't see Valentino overtaking Agostini's record!
I have to be honest and say that the 10th title is looking out of reach as well, simply because there are too many riders in the current field with a good chance of winning races!
If title 10 does happen it will be because the other protagonists take points off each other whilst VR scores consistent points!
(Although, after Austin nothing is guaranteed!) :o
I believe I'm growing sceptical of cynicism!

Cobbett
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Cobbett »

Ditto. I can't see the 10th or the Ago record happening, but it remains fun watching the effort.

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Squidpuppet
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Squidpuppet »

He won four races last year. If he can duplicate that for three seasons, he's got it. He'd need to win one out of every five from here on out. It's doable, with some luck. I'll be rooting for him.

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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by smAshmoto »

The sheer fact he's even this close when he's only allowed to contest one race per round. As opposed to Ago, who could compete in 3 per round on largely superior machinery (in his MV Agusta days at least) is what makes this even more incredible.

I could be wrong, but hasn't Ago himself even stated that he thinks Rossi is the GOAT?
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JanBros
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by JanBros »

smAshmoto wrote:The sheer fact he's even this close when he's only allowed to contest one race per round. As opposed to Ago, who could compete in 3 per round on largely superior machinery (in his MV Agusta days at least) is what makes this even more incredible.
On the orher side, in Ago's days, there werent as much championship races per year.
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Dayle88
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Dayle88 »

JanBros wrote:
smAshmoto wrote:The sheer fact he's even this close when he's only allowed to contest one race per round. As opposed to Ago, who could compete in 3 per round on largely superior machinery (in his MV Agusta days at least) is what makes this even more incredible.
On the orher side, in Ago's days, there werent as much championship races per year.
Do records go back thoroughly enough to see who's favour it falls in? I imagine it still falls in Ago's favour for races per year but it would be cool to know.

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Squidpuppet
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Squidpuppet »

Dayle88 wrote:
JanBros wrote:
smAshmoto wrote:The sheer fact he's even this close when he's only allowed to contest one race per round. As opposed to Ago, who could compete in 3 per round on largely superior machinery (in his MV Agusta days at least) is what makes this even more incredible.
On the orher side, in Ago's days, there werent as much championship races per year.
Do records go back thoroughly enough to see who's favour it falls in? I imagine it still falls in Ago's favour for races per year but it would be cool to know.
There weren't as many race weekends per year, but since Ago raced the 350s and 500s on the same weekends, it looks like the average year offered him about 20 races to participate in. looks like Ago didn't race the final race(s) unless he needed the points.

Rossi = Currently in 21st year, 330 starts, 112 wins

Agostini = 13 years, 186 starts, 122 wins

Both are very impressive, for a variety of different reasons.

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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Cobbett »

Truly so. Just as one concludes, well, VR's competitiveness, at the very top, for so many years, gives him the title, you then also remember that Agostini has ten wins around the Isle of Man course, and you think, ok, wow. (Imagine VR lining up between McGuinness and Anstey. I would swim there to see that.)

I remember Suzi Perry once interviewing VR, and mentioning Hailwood and Agostini to him, and asking VR where he thought he ranked alongside them. He said, with a nice (and nicely non-committal) turn of phrase, "well, I think I am on the podium of history".

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Squidpuppet
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Squidpuppet »

Yeah, it's crazy. 20 years doing a job that could kill you at any moment.

But then, racing multiple races on a single day on those tracks was insane too.

Dayle88
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Dayle88 »

I don't mean this negatively to the current crop of incredible TT riders but I feel if the Isle of Man stayed on the calendar I think the top riders now would be as untouchable as they are to Aprilia at the moment. I think the split at the time carved circuit and road racing in to two different sports. The GP guys probably couldn't compete at the TT without a few years of full time road racing but the TT guys can't ride a bike to the limit like the GP guys can.

Not that it has anything to do with Ago or Rossi's achievements lol. I only made this thread to have some different conversations until Lorenzo's announcement on Thursday and then the bastards announced it early ;)

Fred Gassit
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Fred Gassit »

Depends on three things for me,

1. Who his new team-mate will be, and how quickly whoever it is starts to fire.

2. Whether Honda get their stuff together or not.

3. How quickly Jorge gels with the red thing.

At least two of those would need to fall in Rossi/Yamaha's favour for him to get Ago's records......race wins and/or titles.

Dayle88
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Dayle88 »

"Whether Honda get their stuff together"

Have you been watching the races so far or still reading test headlines?

Fred Gassit
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Fred Gassit »

I don't read too much into Qatar any year.

Argentina was close as the year before until the bike swap.

COTA.... who else is going to beat Marq there ?


Your point is ?

Do you read the front page, or anything regarding where the Honda is actually at ?

Have you read Pedrosas', Crutchlows or any other Honda riders post Qual or race press releases ? Yep, Honda seems to have solved all it's problems then......

So really you're just referring to three races, that by their nature tend to throw up mixed results (COTA excepted), and the abilities of one rider.


Kind of like saying the Ducati has always been a great bike because look at what Stoner did on it........

Marqs' abilities when he' confident he can make the bike do what he wants would be the fourth thing in my initial response.

If it reverts back to doing unpredictable things, from his point of view, then Rossi might have a chance at the records.

For the record, at every race the riders complaints/feedback has been that it is even worse than last year when it comes to acceleration out of corners (seems to be worse because of the tyres, while the electronics/power delivery issue has remained relatively unchanged). Some of the other issues from last year, they appear to have made ground on, though there are still some complaints, even from Marq, that the predictability of what the back end will do on the way into corners still isn't as good as it could be.....


So yes, I read........ :)
Last edited by Fred Gassit on Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

danwilliams
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by danwilliams »

Ago v Rossi, not really a discussion i'd like to be on but here I am. Ive got nothing to say just yet but am eagerly awaiting opinions from others. Can he do it or is it over??

My personal thought is Rossi has reached the pinnacle of his sport for longer than most athletes. Anyone follow surfing, Kelly Slater is kind of going through the same thing right now. Difference is, Rossi is still competitive & Slater is sliding downhill(he is 44 I believe) but can have stand out moments in the right conditions.

Rossi is how old??? he aint that old folks. The way things are at the moment in GP racing, new tyres/tires & electronics, riders wanting to prove themselves & increase whatever brand/softdrink, I really hope they don't forget to race :?

Phillip Ireland
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Phillip Ireland »

smAshmoto wrote:The sheer fact he's even this close when he's only allowed to contest one race per round. As opposed to Ago, who could compete in 3 per round on largely superior machinery (in his MV Agusta days at least) is what makes this even more incredible.


Ago only raced in two classes per GP, and only scored wins in 350 (54) and 500 (68) classes.
Hailwood and Redman have won in three classes on the one day, Hailwood twice.

smAshmoto
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by smAshmoto »

Phillip Ireland wrote:
smAshmoto wrote:The sheer fact he's even this close when he's only allowed to contest one race per round. As opposed to Ago, who could compete in 3 per round on largely superior machinery (in his MV Agusta days at least) is what makes this even more incredible.


Ago only raced in two classes per GP, and only scored wins in 350 (54) and 500 (68) classes.
Hailwood and Redman have won in three classes on the one day, Hailwood twice.
Fair enough, however thats still twice as many chances to win a race on Sunday than what Rossi has had.

The other point of my argument remains unchanged in that the machinery he was often on was FAR superior to anything around him in his days on the MV, as opposed to the Yamaha where it was much more in line with the competition. I'm not taking Ago away from any of his accomplishments at all, I have massive respect for him, and he will always hold the championships record (15?) .

At the end of the day, these two guys raced in very different eras. There are massive differences in number of rounds, number of competitors, standard of those competitors, the circuits which were raced on, the difference in machinery, the competition in terms of that machinery and the average length of career. The fact that we even compare a record such as this over such a vast array of differences is rather silly, but we all look to records when determining someones legacy in sport.

Personally, I would love to see Vale break Ago's record, simply because its just something so remarkable to even be within eye shot of. I've always been a big Vale fan, he's the reason I started watching motorcycle racing when i was 11 years old in 2000. I can say I've had the privilege to see him win a race, in the era when everyone was still saying he was "too old", "past it" and "should retire". Seeing him cross the line at Phillip Island in 2014 was something I'll never forget and at the risk of not sounding cool here, I wiped a couple of tears away. After all the shit, the Ducati years etc it was something I wasn't sure I'd ever get to witness. I don't think anyone will feel that over a Marquez or Lorenzo.

My point is that Valentino and Giacomo are both once in a lifetime riders, we've just been fortunate enough to witness them in the same lifetime, albeit decades apart.
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Squidpuppet
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Squidpuppet »

Life is filled with "what ifs", I know, I know. But this thread probably wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the Ducati years. :shock:

kenup283
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by kenup283 »

Squidpuppet wrote:Life is filled with "what ifs", I know, I know. But this thread probably wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the Ducati years. :shock:
You mean if he had not been on something other than a bike capable of winning the championship 90% of the time :D

I think we could say same of Ago too. Both had the opportunity and made the most of it. But Ago also rode other bikes too so same difference.

But what really struck me last time I was looking into this kind of thing was Gary Hocking.

Just to put it in perspective he was number 1 rider and Ago became number 1 when he left.

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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by AJracing »

AJracing wrote:In the last 3 years he has won 7 races out of 54....I highly doubt he will beat that record but anything can happen..
In my mind... he is the greatest...I followed the sport since 2011 and have rewatched the entire motogp feed going back to 92. Even then I can't tell who would better compared to rossi... as I was born in 87. . I am what you call a nube to the sport.
So....I take back what I said. :mrgreen:

He CAN do it..

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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Squidpuppet »

AJracing wrote:
AJracing wrote:In the last 3 years he has won 7 races out of 54....I highly doubt he will beat that record but anything can happen..
In my mind... he is the greatest...I followed the sport since 2011 and have rewatched the entire motogp feed going back to 92. Even then I can't tell who would better compared to rossi... as I was born in 87. . I am what you call a nube to the sport.
So....I take back what I said. :mrgreen:

He CAN do it..
We should keep this thread alive and updated.

One down, ten to go.

Dayle88
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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Dayle88 »

I think this is THE record that should be celebrated the way his 2008 title comeback was but more so. Decades old records that take decades themselves to beat probably have to be one of the rarest things in sport.

Since the celebrations are non existent these days I wonder if he'd be willing to cart one of Ago's MV's around the world for his cool down lap of he does it.

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Re: Agostini vs Rossi

Post by Phillip Ireland »

kenup283 wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:Life is filled with "what ifs", I know, I know. But this thread probably wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the Ducati years. :shock:
But what really struck me last time I was looking into this kind of thing was Gary Hocking.

Just to put it in perspective he was number 1 rider and Ago became number 1 when he left.




Well...if you overlook Hailwood's 4 titles in a row in between :geek:

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