2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
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Squidpuppet
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Squidpuppet »

SirSinCity wrote:
:lol: you're not nice :lol:
:lol:

His choice of words was so controversial, I just couldn't leave it alone. :P

I don't agree with him about Rossi, because I believe Rossi makes his own luck 99% of the time. And while I do believe that Jorge has had some bad luck this season, he is also paying the piper for a few of his own mistakes as well.

Jorge has tried to be perfectly fast this season, and has come up too short a few times.
Rossi has tried to be perfectly consistent this season, and for the most part has achieved exactly that.

coyote
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by coyote »

Meh, all it shows is that the narrative woven through the media has had an effect, since everything else in that is Gardner saying a lot without actually saying anything.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by coyote »

Squidpuppet wrote:
I don't agree with him about Rossi, because I believe Rossi makes his own luck 99% of the time.
So if that's your ratio, shouldn't whatever it translated to be called something else than luck?

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Squidpuppet
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Squidpuppet »

coyote wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:
I don't agree with him about Rossi, because I believe Rossi makes his own luck 99% of the time.
So if that's your ratio, shouldn't whatever it translated to be called something else than luck?
It's just a word. Feel free to use whichever one suits you.

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CLX
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by CLX »

People keep losing their cool around Kent...

Oliveira is an early MOTM candidate. His last lap was impecable.

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Tourn46
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Tourn46 »

CLX wrote:People keep losing their cool around Kent...

Oliveira is an early MOTM candidate. His last lap was impecable.
Oliveira is a quality rider... think back to the start of the season and he had a few spills and accidents, not all of his own doing. Could easily have been a different story this year.

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CLX
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by CLX »

So, 7 points are better than 4 or 5 but Rossi can still make it with two seconds. And if he beats Lorenzo at Sepang than he won't even have to worry with Lorenzo at Valencia.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Cobbett »

CLX wrote:So, 7 points are better than 4 or 5 but Rossi can still make it with two seconds.
But that's looking an unlikely prospect, with MM's and DP's resurgence, and Iannone's fight. And that Duc on the straights, ouch - ISTR that Sepang has two long ones. VR will be worried about his mojo after that performance at what was meant to be one of his very best tracks.
CLX wrote: if he beats Lorenzo at Sepang than he won't even have to worry with Lorenzo at Valencia.
I think he absolutely has to get in front of JL at Sepang, yes.

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Tourn46
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Tourn46 »

Just because this season doesn't seem to be going as predicted...

JL to beat Vale at Sepang.

Vale to beat JL at Valencia.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Cobbett »

Tourn46 wrote: Just because this season doesn't seem to be going as predicted...

JL to beat Vale at Sepang.

Vale to beat JL at Valencia.
You're right that it's a mug's game calling these races. I was trying to cheer myself up by reminding myself that while Valencia has ghosts for VR, he did get his first pole for 4 years there last year.

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dave_m
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by dave_m »

In some ways the title fight hasn't really changed after Phillip Island. Rossi has a lot of ways to win, and Lorenzo still has to finish ahead of Rossi at both races and needs another rider to help him by finishing in between himself and Rossi at least once. The title probably won't be actually clinched even if Rossi finishes ahead of Lorenzo at Sepang, but it'll be desperation / miracle time then. Unless someone crashes out or there is rain...

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CLX
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by CLX »

dave_m wrote:In some ways the title fight hasn't really changed after Phillip Island. Rossi has a lot of ways to win, and Lorenzo still has to finish ahead of Rossi at both races and needs another rider to help him by finishing in between himself and Rossi at least once. The title probably won't be actually clinched even if Rossi finishes ahead of Lorenzo at Sepang, but it'll be desperation / miracle time then. Unless someone crashes out or there is rain...
Yeps.
Of all the reasonable worse case scenarios, Lorenzo 2nd and Rossi 4th was the best possible for Rossi.

It seems more likely Lorenzo will need a miracle weekend at Valencia. If both Marquez and Pedrosa keep it up, an HRC 1-2 at Sepang would not be entirely surprising.

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frankrizzo
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by frankrizzo »

I don't agree, Rossi's window has narrowed substantially in that he now has only one chance to make a decisive impact. On one of his favorite tracks he's conceded a lot more than he hoped he might. He has to make something of Sepang because I think only a fool would bet against Lorenzo at Valencia, especially on this years Yam and with his back against the wall.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Cobbett »

frankrizzo wrote:I don't agree, Rossi's window has narrowed substantially in that he now has only one chance to make a decisive impact. On one of his favorite tracks he's conceded a lot more than he hoped he might. He has to make something of Sepang because I think only a fool would bet against Lorenzo at Valencia, especially on this years Yam and with his back against the wall.
I agree with that. I think VR will be more disappointed than relieved by the way PI panned out. After all his FP and quali woes he ended up with the same race pace as JL but unable to make it count.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Squidpuppet »

frankrizzo wrote:I don't agree, Rossi's window has narrowed substantially in that he now has only one chance to make a decisive impact. On one of his favorite tracks he's conceded a lot more than he hoped he might. He has to make something of Sepang because I think only a fool would bet against Lorenzo at Valencia, especially on this years Yam and with his back against the wall.

I agree.

There is a ton of pressure on Jorge. But he has been behind ALL season. For Jorge it's just business as usual.

Rossi HAS to do well in Malaysia. He MUST. If he finishes behind Jorge, in any iteration, he will be under the Hammer in Valencia. It's either pad the lead in Sepang, or stress and suffering in Spain.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Dayle88 »

I don't think Iannone will have the same impact on the leaders at Sepang when talking about the straights. There is a lot more track in between them if one of the Yamaha's gets past there's enough circuit to get enough of a gap come straight line time.

I think Rossi was disappointed in PI but I don't think he'll be panicking. He had the pace on Sunday yet again.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Re. Oliveira, it's taken a time for his results to come but the talent has always been there. If you'd gone back to the forums (I used to post on MotoGPNews at the time) people were making exactly the same fuss about him as they do Quatararo this year.

It looks like he has done that thing now that some other great riders have done; stop crashing, but kept his speed.

Kent is lucky that Oliveira missed those races this year otherwise it would be a lot closer! Just wish now that Kent would just finish the bloody WC off, that last race was almost unbearable to watch and he was lucky to escape injury considering he practically got put into orbit.
Tourn46 wrote:Just because this season doesn't seem to be going as predicted...

JL to beat Vale at Sepang.

Vale to beat JL at Valencia.
Why the hell not ! 8-)

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CLX
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by CLX »

Remember back after Assen when people (myself included) wondered whether the Marquez-Rossi bromance was officially over and had become a true rivalry? I think it has. History shows rivavly with Rossi will indeed ruin any friendship or amicability.

Anyhow, do you guys think there is any possibility Marquez deliberately slowed down during the Aussie GP to do more than manage his tyres?

http://www.marca.com/2015/10/20/motor/m ... FCOPY33701

Translated: "Asked Vale, at a press conference, why he thought Marquez had paced up and down his career in both the Italian gave a loud laugh. They commented that Honda had said it was because his asymmetrical front tire is overheated. "Yes, it will be for that," ironically released championship leader."

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Grahluk
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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Grahluk »

That exchange has been translated at least twice before our reading. Also Spanish media that's almost as notorious of shite stirring as Italian media. Could be wrong but smell bull wafting from an agricultural paddock. It didn't loom like Marc was commanding that race. Just like Moto3 any one of those 4 could have ended up on the podium. He wouldn't be dicing that hard with Rossi & Iannone in the last 5 laps if he had a mind on winning.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Cobbett »

Indeed. It makes no sense. And why would Marquez slowing down hinder Rossi in particular? When MM was in front of JL that tactic would put JL nearer to VR's reach. And when MM was behind JL but in front of VR, in a race with that many overtakes, it would just give VR a chance to pass MM and gap him. It doesn't stack up.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by Cobbett »

We've speculated in various threads about the changed relationship between VR and MM, and who of the Yamaha men MM would prefer to win, with some suggesting that MM's desire for revenge post-Assen meant that he favoured JL; some suggesting that the longer Spanish rivalry between MM and JL far transcended any tension with VR; and some suggesting that the racer ego doesn't work that way and that if MM doesn't win he doesn't give a toss who else does.

VR has today spoken to the Italian media on this. Very, very interesting:

Q: Do you think that Marquez helped out Lorenzo at Phillip Island?
A: “It is indeed true that Marquez did not play with both of us: he only played with me! It is important that he knows that I know! Now let's see what happens, but I am quite concerned because to have to fight with Lorenzo is one thing, but if you have to beat Marquez as well, everything becomes much more difficult, to be honest - the case is that he isn’t playing fair (something that a professional rider has to do in these situations). Especially because Marquez could be very competitive in the last two races. For me it was a big disappointment, I was upset, it was from a few races ago that I knew, but I did not expect him to do something so obvious. I feel disappointment, regret and worry, because surely he will try to do it here and also in Valencia.”

Q: So why did he eventually also overtake Lorenzo?
A: “In the race I noticed it, but I did not understand; Marquez was a step above everyone, but instead of trying to try to battle Lorenzo, he stayed with me to fight with Iannone and others. He knew that I was losing out to the Ducati on the straight. And so every time I tried to pass him, he re-overtook me (super-aggressive, but thats the way it is). But then he slowed to create a gap to Jorge. His bad luck was that on Sunday Jorge was not so strong, because otherwise it would have been over already. Instead, he always kept Jorge in check, knowing that he could catch him within 3 laps, and then tried to slow me and Iannone, perhaps trying to put other riders between me and Lorenzo. And in the end, that's what he did. It is clearly quite worrying, but it doesn't worry me too much”

Q: Why do you think he did this?
A: “Because he would prefer Lorenzo to win. He is angry at me for a personal matter. Although he never said it, he thinks that in Argentina I made him crash; and then at Assen he is still thinking about the last chicane, in his head he feels he should have won that race. Since then he has been angry and thinking like a child: I do not win, but you do not win either. At this point, the lesser evil is for him is for Lorenzo to win.

Q: Is it something that motivates you or makes you angry?
A: "Let's see. Because if he's faster yet slows down to get involved in the battles further back, it could become difficult. Because he has nothing to lose, but I do. I have to be wary. I'm sorry and I'm quite angry. I did not expect that Marquez was an obstacle for this Championship, I thought I was only fighting against Jorge, as it should be.”

Q: Because he used to idolise you, did you think this wouldn't happen?
A: "Watch out, here we must make a clarification: did he really idolise me? Did he really have my poster at home? I'm not so sure. I'd like to go back in time and see. It will also be a question of character, he is competing with me: I want to win as many World Championships as I can. If I win another title, then he knows that he will have to win one more to overtake me. If instead Jorge wins Jorge, then they have more or less the same.”

Q: Was it better with Biaggi, because he at least made his feelings clear?
A: "It's true you are right. In the long run, I prefer more his behaviour. We were obnoxious to each other, but at least it was clear and honest. But I do not have his phone number.”

Q: Did this all begin in Laguna Seca?
A: “There have been lots of moments, at Laguna Seca he wanted to do what I had done to Stoner five years before, when he could easily have passed three corners later. It was the first signal. And I said so, but I did not want to believe it. To think evil, it takes forever.”

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/10/2 ... win/187955

Crikey...

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by amithrai13 »

2 long straights means, you got to be very good with your braking, which should suit more Marc and Vale, shouldn't it?

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by CLX »

Maybe Marc is the first guy to ever get into Rossi's head...

Isn't that what would be said if roles were reversed? Not to mention the usual accusations of being flawed and immature.

But at least now I know there really was something going on between VR and MM (even if it's one sided) instead of me simply making wild assumptions.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by AJracing »

The smile on Marc's face when Rossi called him out was priceless.
Obviously something has happened - shift of attitude that Valentino has noticed etc.
I didn't think he would have said something out loud in a press conference. Surprising considering how quiet the riders are these days when it comes to openly voicing their opinion.
2 races to go. Tension is building - overflowing perhaps.

Hate talking about what riders are thinking but lets look at the effect.
1. Marquez is probably pissed inside Rossi called him out - extra motivation to win the race (aka disrupt the front and take off, proving him wrong by beating a faster lorenzo).
2. Lorenzo - thinking wow mm helping me? didn't feel like it - but if thats the case - thanks! ease of a bit of pressure? false hope given by Rossi?
3. Rossi - Stirring sh*t up - trying to get a battle going between 99 93 - meantime biding his time to pounce or hope 99 goes down.

I duno...I am literally losing my mind here wondering what's about to happen -
Heart/Head analysis - Heart says 46 gains a fews points to finish 3rd in Valencia and the pressure goes down a bit so I can not have a heart attack.
Head says - Rossi loses 5 points - so that he HAS to finish 2nd to Lorenzo winning in Valencia...and Marc trying to lend a helping hand :mrgreen: quite possibly disrupting the rhythm of my heart.

Credit to 46/99 - They both deserve a vacation after this championship win or lose.

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Re: 2015 title battle, 5 GPs in and beyond

Post by AJracing »

Whatever the case may be - I think we are in for a real treat at Sepang.

Rossi attitude seemed to say "Gloves are coming off, bare knuckles from now on" - he will battle HARD - always been a fan of his overtaking at Sepang. Cant wait!!!!!

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