Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

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Grahluk
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Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Grahluk »

With the unveiling of Gigi's child I thought this the appropriate time to bring this subject back up. Thoughts? Hopes? Dreams? Fears? Usual gripes?

First visual impressions from launch.
-really compact. Almost RCV compact. Maybe more so. They didn't even have room to route the rear cylinders' exhaust pipes through the tail so they hang out the lower left of the tail.

-purposeful looking in that fugly Aprilia GP way. I hope it goes better than it looks. Is it just me or does it's profile look somewhat reminiscent of the old 888? Like a 2015 888?

- I thought the snout of the GP14.2 & .3 looked odd with it's bread box looking air intake. The GP15 takes it further. I know form follows function but it looks like something from the 80's. The RCV & M1's intakes look like they're borrowed from modern warplanes.

-what's with that secondary asymmetrical intake on the front left?

-Dovi is right optimistic. Says if understeer is cured anything can happen, even a title challenge. So says the man without a single dry win on a Repsol Honda. The GP15 would have to be not just really really good but better than Honda for a title challenge.

-Ciabati is also optimistic but maybe more realistic. Goal is for at least 1 dry win.

- who wants to bet that if the GP15 does happen to rack up two wins within the first half of the season that Honda & Yamaha petition for immediate end of tire, fuel, & engine concessions?

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Kropotkin
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Kropotkin »

Grahluk wrote: -what's with that secondary asymmetrical intake on the front left?
I spent a long time looking at that. Air is routed down, following the edge of the fairing. I suspect it is to cool something between the V.
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Squidpuppet
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Squidpuppet »

Captain Negative here to report my thoughts.

Hideous. Ugliest one yet. They have all been ugly, but this one is special.

It looks cobbled together by twenty afterthoughts to make things fit and to make places for other things.

It looks like ten different designers worked on it and they all had very different tastes. The Swingarm has nothing in common with the frame. It's bends and agles are the opposite styles to one another.

The frame has ugly seams running parrallel with the beams under the tank, that lead to LARGE an beautiful HOLES. Nasty looking. Perhaps they are rigging spots for motor hoists, useful then, but still ugly.

Bodywork has round and flowing stuff blended with jaggedy pointy stuff. Horrible

Rear subframe is GIGANTIC, yet the exhaust is not hidden. In fact it's routing looks like a Band-Aid attempt to keed it out of the suspension and away from the rider's leg. As if it's location was not considered during the design process of the subframe. And the exhaust itself, with it's jointless generic OEM looking "Muffler Shop" bends is about as sexy as a crescent wrench.

What's with the exposed, unwrapped, unprotected wiring group (tangled mess of weeds) running right by the exhaust, up to the top of the swingarm, through the fender, and then to the rear wheel sensors? Didn't we all learn something from Honda on this subject?

I realize that rearsets have to position the peg where the rider needs it, but man, those things are LONG and ugly.

Hopefully the understeer is gone. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Squidpuppet on Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Japhrodisiac
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Japhrodisiac »

Agree that all of them have been ugly, but the last 2 gp14 versions have improved that a bit, this one might be a step backwards in the looks dept but hoping that it is an evolution in the handling department. Gigi builds good bikes, but given the lag in development and that this is making its 1st appearance at Sepang 2, they are behind the other factories already...again. My overall impression is that they finished these 5 minutes before the film crew showed up, and this is backed up by that fact that the Andreas will have only 1 bike each at Sepang 2, with the others supposedly being built between then and Qatar (the 1 bike each being proof of concepts that get green lighted or not?)

It looks like a Honda, as much as it can. I hope it goes like a Honda too

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Japhrodisiac »

We see the 2 lower engine mount points here, radically different to the previous bike's, with a 3rd mounting point (blue circle) as either an engine mount for the rear cyl. head to add rigidity, or it's a suspension mount. Inquiring minds want to know...

Image


Then, we see a matching exit hole for the 2nd air intake that Grahluk mentions earlier, could this be to cool the electronics?

Image

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deckard
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by deckard »

At this point, looks are irrelevant. They have serious handling anomalies that they need to solve, if this bike is not the pill then they will need to go back to the drawing board. Time spent on fit/finish and aesthetics is mostly wasted time at this stage.

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Tourn46
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Tourn46 »

deckard wrote:At this point, looks are irrelevant. They have serious handling anomalies that they need to solve, if this bike is not the pill then they will need to go back to the drawing board. Time spent on fit/finish and aesthetics is mostly wasted time at this stage.
I am pretty sure the best looking bike has a 2% advantage over the rest of the field.

I don't know what it is about the Ducati GP machines... Their road bikes are some of the most beautiful things on the planet, but like the predecessors, something looks a bit weird about it, just the general shape. Can't put my finger on it...

I don't know why, but seeing it has made me less optimistic...

I am honestly HOPING that this is all unfounded and the bike is the tonic required to battle the Honda's and Yamaha's.

andrebt
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by andrebt »

Its looks good(best livery so-far) the question is can Gigi deliver on the hype. One can only hope because the Yamaha/Honda duel-opoly is getting old.

One issue of exhaust routing, looks kinda ugly

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Hanuman »

tsk tsk.
Just look at the size of that rear master cylinder return spring.
Big arse o-ring or chunk of bike inner tube is the way to go.

Huge underseat fuel pod and the ungainly exhaust routing, is that due to the extra fuel capacity? ;)

I am a little torn here. On one hand, I want it to do well, then I remember that it's running under different rules to the Yamahas and Hondas...which takes some of the shine off.

jvdairlie
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by jvdairlie »

Race bikes are not meant to look pretty! Function over form!

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speeddog
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by speeddog »

My preliminary image analysis shows the swingarm pivot has moved forward about an inch, which is a lot. In fact, a truckload.

The frame rail has moved about 3 inches closer to the swingarm pivot, mostly just angled more steeply.
Again, a truckload.

Clutch appears to be in roughly the same spot compared to the swingarm pivot and crank centerline, which appears to be in roughly the same position.

The forward frame spar is now nearly vertical, and lower mount approximately the same distance forward of the crank, yet the exhaust cam drive is still visible.
So the vee has been rotated quite a bit backward, 10-15 degrees.

And frankly, I wouldn't care if it had a lumpy burlap texture painted flat BRG with a roller, and styled by a hedgehog.
Laptime is all that matters.

wedge
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by wedge »

Welding on the under seat fuel pod leaves something to be desired to...

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Kropotkin »

speeddog wrote:My preliminary image analysis shows the swingarm pivot has moved forward about an inch, which is a lot. In fact, a truckload.
Dall'Igna let slip that the aim was to make a shorter bike. So you are dead right. I took a whole bunch of photos which I will be sorting through later today and posting, along with an analysis.
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frankrizzo
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by frankrizzo »

Kropotkin wrote:
speeddog wrote:My preliminary image analysis shows the swingarm pivot has moved forward about an inch, which is a lot. In fact, a truckload.
Dall'Igna let slip that the aim was to make a shorter bike. So you are dead right.
The long rear sets give that away too, swing arm looks long also. I actually think it looks great. If the front end was painted blue it could pass for a Suzuki.

Japhrodisiac
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Japhrodisiac »

I still think the Mugello version GP6 was the best looking Ducati MotoGp bike, certainly the most 'Ducati' looking one

Image

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speeddog
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by speeddog »

Kropotkin wrote:
speeddog wrote:My preliminary image analysis shows the swingarm pivot has moved forward about an inch, which is a lot. In fact, a truckload.
Dall'Igna let slip that the aim was to make a shorter bike. So you are dead right. I took a whole bunch of photos which I will be sorting through later today and posting, along with an analysis.
I hope most of the pics were sans bodywork. :D

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by wedge »

Japhrodisiac wrote:I still think the Mugello version GP6 was the best looking Ducati MotoGp bike, certainly the most 'Ducati' looking one

Image
First glance and I thought that was an MV... :lol:

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Tourn46
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Tourn46 »

This is kind of food for thought really... but if the GP15 is indeed capable of winning, do they actually have 2 riders who can win now?

Ianonne is a bit of an unknown quantity.

On equal machinery, we know that Dovi couldn't match Dani (or Casey), obviously the M1 was a satellite machine, but he was never really in the same league as Jorge... I think winning in 2015 is not only hard with a new bike, but also with the lack of talent at Ducati due to their prior failures?

This isn't a Dovi sucks rant by any means, he is a brilliant rider who always sits somewhere between the aliens and the rest... but is he going to get Ducati the results they want?

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Japhrodisiac »

Hard to say, Dovi obviously didn't set the world on fire on the Repsol bike, but he's been more of the slow and steady progress type rather than jumping on and winning type. I think he has progressed as a rider quite a bit over the years, and while he won't be beating Marquez or Jorge regularly he has the potential to be a regular podium visitor.

Iannone reminds me of a Rueben Xaus type of character, if he can stop binning it then he'll be something. Xaus never made the leap. IE you can teach a fast guy not to crash but not a slow guy how to be fast.

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Grahluk
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Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Grahluk »

My vote for best looking Ducati GP bike. The GP08
[img]http://www.fastdates.com/PLN.Images2008 ... 8.1724.jpg[/img]

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Japhrodisiac »

Grahluk wrote:My vote for best looking Ducati GP bike. The GP08
There is a great picture of Casey doing a leaned over wheelie on that bike, out there on the web somewhere

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Squidpuppet »

Now that Krop has posted the pics that he took, I've got $20.00 that says that wacky saddle platform thingy won't make it to the end of the season. That's going to bother the riders while moving around on the bike.

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by Kropotkin »

Squidpuppet wrote:Now that Krop has posted the pics that he took, I've got $20.00 that says that wacky saddle platform thingy won't make it to the end of the season. That's going to bother the riders while moving around on the bike.
It's almost identical to the Honda saddle ...
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speeddog
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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by speeddog »

Now that there's more pictures floating about....

There's been a dramatic increase in the area of the radiator inlet, and apparently much larger radiator(s).

And the outlets are even more dramatically upsized.

I'm thinking they've made a deliberate effort to run the engine cooler.

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Re: Ducati goings on part 4 (GP15 edition)

Post by kenup283 »

Could be. But it could also be they are running it hotter and need to get rid of more heat. Perhaps spinning more RPM's. or perhaps addressing an old issue as I recall reading at one time heatremoval has been difficult for them, so comparison to prior may just be rectifying that?

Generally speaking, I would not expect anything brand new like this to outperform the prior bike on the spot.

It will bring new problems that must be worked through and refined. That should be expected.

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