Performance enhancing substances

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
kenup283
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Performance enhancing substances

Post by kenup283 »

Putting this here just cause active area, feel free to move..

What's been on my mind is the effect that motorcycling under the FIM banner is subject to the same banned substances list as track and field athletes or Tour de France competitors.

If you ever have a look to the banned substance list it's enough to make your head spin.
https://wada-main-prod.s3.amazonaws.com ... ist-EN.PDF


Questions;

Applicability, Does it make sense for a sport such as racing to be held to such a standard.

Sure it's a physical sport but you'd have to aurgue the advantage woukd be off track and more about recovery time allowing one to train harder than advantage gained on track. The bikes do most the heavy lifting.

Punishment, beng part of the world doping code means subject to their appeal of punishment placed on a rider who fails a test. This is a precedent based process and 2 years is what they think a minimum should be, soon to be moved to four years to ensure offenders miss an Olympic Games year.

Again why is motorcycle racing tied to somthing that is clear directive at other sports. Two years let alone four is a death sentence to anyone involved in racing...

History. Looking back not to go into Haga which I think was pre WADA jurisdiction,

Anthony West was most famously fallen victims to this code. Strangely enough after the FIM administered their punishment (a couple races sat out) the WADA folks took th FIM and West to appeals court and central to their argument was that in a sport which requires alertness and quick muscular reactions that the energy drink West consumed gave him an advantage. Even though they could not uphold that the banned substance originally responsible for his failed test gave any advantage. They vn went as far to say because he did not crash in a wet race at Lemans where many others did, that clearly he was advantaged... Never mind his history as an exceptional wet whether rider..

His sentence was increased to 18 month ban, given retroactively. That was settled in Nov. last year.


Next, side car passenger Lauris Daiders banned by FIM for 15 months in April of this year. This is a huge step up in punishment historically given by FIM's internal process. Clearly they dont want to go through he expense of being appealed by WADA again as in the case of Ant West.

http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfre ... aiders.pdf

Next up is Supecross rider James Stewart who had a medical prescription for somthing which had some amount of a banned substance in it. His ruling is yet to be handed, but I think it won't be pretty. The doping code is pretty clear that special Theriputic Use Exemption is required and approval granted in advance of use.

Most recently speedway rider Dracy Ward tested over for alcohol which unsure what will happen there as its a standalone part of WADA code for a very few sports (car racing incld), perhaps his punishment is outside the precedent based process handed out for milli grams of more scientifically named substances on WADA's list.


So basic question, is it all too harsh, should it even be applicable. How can FIM afford to continue to be a signatory of WADA code if they clearly feel that energy drinks are a performance enhancer.

Thoughts?

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frankrizzo
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by frankrizzo »

I dunno, I do think the FIM need to take a more practical look at it in terms of relevance to racing a motorcycle as opposed to a cyclist or long distance runner. Two of the cases you mention, Haga and Daiders involve substances I have had experience of. In the case of Haga, it was ephedrine, a mild stimulant used by athletes to train a little harder. It works kind of like an energy drink and raises metabolic rate. I took it over the winter a couple of seasons. What was it like? I could run an extra 20 minutes, or go an hour on a cross trainer instead of 45mins. And I'm sure it helped me loose an extra kilo or two. Would I take it before a race or would it be advantageous to do so? No, but then a couple of cans of red bull before a race wouldn't be a good idea either. At the time I think the whole Haga thing was handled very poorly. The stuff that Daiders tested pos for, Clenbuterol, is much much more potent. Hardcore bodybuilders take it to 'cut up'. A guy at the gym gave me some, I took it for a couple of days and gave it back to him because of the tremors and shakes. I can see why someone might use it to speed up fat loss whilst training but it would be a major disadvantage to take any and try to compete, it's really strong stuff. I can't think of a professional racer that might use something like this to actually enhance performance in a race because it'll have the opposite effect. I know I'm stating the obvious but the more relaxed you are the better and neither of these two 'enhancers' will provide that benefit. A couple of ripe bananas and lots of water is about the best energy giver there is. As to the indirect benefit of using these in the off season to maximize fitness and/or weight loss, I dunno if it should be illegal. I guess the 11th commandment applies, thou shalt not get caught ;)

Rossifumi
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Rossifumi »

kenup - are you arguing for free use of PED's in motorsport or just the technicalities of the examples you give?

kenup283
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by kenup283 »

Thanks frankrizzo. Its good to get some real experiences.

Rossifumi, not an argurment, but I'm not even sure what a performance enhancer would be for a motorcycle rider anymore... and what about the pain killer injections they get to allow them to go out and ride when they otherwise couldn't. Are those performance enhancing drugs?

Basicaly what it seems to me, is that what we have now is a list of banned substances having little to do with the sport itself and the riders are subject to extreme punishments for undefined trace amounts and the FIM have no control over the punishment handed out anymore....

If you take Ant West, all the info we had in press realeses is that his punishment went from a month as imposed by FIM, to 18 months as decided by the Court of Arbitration for Sport... Without anymore information you'd actually have to think there was somthing wrong done and the appeals decision is evidence if that.

But if you read that decission you'd realize he was even more innocent than you would have thought before for "failing a doping test" and shouldn't have even been penalized for any races. The case presented and upheld is laughable and the punishment totally arbitrary.... I guess that's why it's called arbitration. Total bs. Here's a link to that case.

http://www.tas-cas.org/d2wfiles/documen ... ternet.pdf


If somthing is needed to keep the training levels in a heathy zone, that's understandable, but the FIM cannot afford to be signed up for somthing they have no control over.. Its only going to take a major rider to get nipped for it all to hit the fan.

James Stewart in America is siting on that hot seat right now. I hope I'm wrong but he could end up loosing most of last years supercross results (race winnings & points ) and have to sit out next years season as well... unless the FIM take a more rational and applicable position, that's how the WADA and arbitrators could see it anyway. Even if the FIM rule as they see fit, we'd still have no idea whether it would be appealed or not. Again not being the final athority means no one really knows what could happen.

oldboyonrgv
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by oldboyonrgv »

Good post and questions - shows that this place still has intelligent debate....

I think that from the FIM perspective - it is far more sensible to fall in line with the rules put in by WADA than to try to make it bespoke for motorcycle racers and thus outside of the WADA regime (which includes access to their testing facilities, updates etc)

Secondly Motorcycle racing is an athletic sport at the top level - try going absolutely flat out on a bike for 40 minutes and see if you agree with me! you need to be as fresh as possible for the last 2 laps and that takes a high degree of fitness- as such the riders and teams will look to gain ANY advantage they can - lighter and fitter is the way that rider tunes himself and this is expected by the teams.

Lastly DO NOT believe that certain substances are not offered/used by certain people to 'help' some riders who look like they may need it - as such we do need WADA.

Rossifumi
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Rossifumi »

I'd agree with you kenup, that policing PED use and even defining what a PED is is a minefield but I also agree with Oldboy in that the FIM's best option is to go with WADA even though it is a one-size-fits-all approach. And despite what you say about the individual cases I think that 'strict liability' is the only viable way to go for policing PED's. If you allow for extenuating circumstances then you'll always be able to find an 'expert witness' to testify that it was too low a level to have an effect, caused by contaminated food, due to too much sex and alcohol…..
Out of interest - anyone know of any data on how many tests have been carried out on motoGP riders?

kenup283
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by kenup283 »

The punishment side is what's really bugging me. It's gone from canceling the results where the postitve test occurred, and somtimes imposing a 1 month ban, to over a year long ban even if you're exonerated.... Worse yet the new trend looks to be to ban the riders after a positive test from any and all levels of competition until their case can be heard...


Looking back in all the press realeses available here, http://www.fim-live.com/en/media/press-release/

In the past 10 years of data availibe, there have been 700 tests of riders and only 7 cases mentioned for testing positive, and none of those were examples of performance enhancements. Just technicalities and simple slip ups.

They also covered many differnt types of competition such as, ice racing, speedway, endurance, sidecar, motocross, supercross, freestyleMX, and of course WSBK and GP who both on avg get tested about twice per season. Each time the pattern is three riders from each class are tested. So about six MotoGP riders would be tested each year, or possibly more.


To be honest I think the data just shows PEDs are a bit of a non-issue for motorcycle racing, and riders across all forms are just not using them. If they were, or if any kinds existed that could definitively help, I'd expect more hits than just 1%.


Interestingly in all those press releases I found a couple from 2011 where FIM held educational seminars for WSBK and GP riders. Copied some quotes below,



Marco Melandri: “I am very happy with this first meeting on anti-doping as I think that there is not so much knowledge among riders and that we are not very competent in this field. Also I think that it is more important for us to know better the motorbike than to take prohibited substances to be faster. This meeting was a good start. It is very important to continue to fight together for a clean sport.”

Leon Camier: “I think this is really a good idea that anti-doping was brought in by the FIM. Today's talk was a good chance to learn more about it and how not to make any mistakes.”

Carlos Checa: “I think that it is good information to be able to enter the world of anti-doping and to show that our sport is a clean sport. I sincerely believe that no substances can make you go faster but it is only the technical aspects such as your ability, your learning, the team, the motorbike which all together can make you go faster. I think that for the young riders who ignore the fact that substances can harm their health, this kind of information meeting is very interesting and useful.”

Ruben Xaus: “There are many products on the market and we have no information. I think that this sport is a combination of men's work, engines, machines and we have not used any of the products to make us better because the technical aspects, the development of the motorbike are really what make the difference. It is important to know this as the young riders with internet access can be misinformed and could buy inappropriate products. The young riders can trust us, the old ones, who made it without anything. Eating well, keeping healthy and exercise are necessary to succeed in sports.”


http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfre ... riders.pdf


Hiroshi Aoyama (JPN): “It was an interesting and important meeting. Most of the riders need to know more about anti-doping”.

Marco Simoncelli (ITA): “It was an important meeting as we need more information on Anti-Doping. It is important to realize that if a rider needs assistance, he will get it from the FIM”.

Andrea Dovizioso (ITA): “Anti-doping controls are good things, I would be happy if there were even more controls. Also, I am of the opinion that there is a need for such a meeting, at least once a year... In regard to the Registered Testing Pool, my concern is that it is difficult for us, riders, to know exactly our whereabouts information in advance. I hope that the procedure will be easier in the future”.

Nicky Hayden (USA): “Obviously, the meeting was useful as the anti-doping rules are not easy as no mistakes should be made and I understand that we need to be in the loop and know what's going on”.

John Hopkins (USA): “The meeting was productive and informative. WADA is a good way to fight against doping which is taking away from the athletes that are trying to come up to the top of their sport in the natural way”.



http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfre ... Doping.pdf

Hanuman
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Hanuman »

oldboyonrgv wrote:Good post and questions - shows that this place still has intelligent debate....

I think that from the FIM perspective - it is far more sensible to fall in line with the rules put in by WADA than to try to make it bespoke for motorcycle racers and thus outside of the WADA regime (which includes access to their testing facilities, updates etc)

Secondly Motorcycle racing is an athletic sport at the top level - try going absolutely flat out on a bike for 40 minutes and see if you agree with me! you need to be as fresh as possible for the last 2 laps and that takes a high degree of fitness- as such the riders and teams will look to gain ANY advantage they can - lighter and fitter is the way that rider tunes himself and this is expected by the teams.

Lastly DO NOT believe that certain substances are not offered/used by certain people to 'help' some riders who look like they may need it - as such we do need WADA.
Fine post, OldBoy.
PEDs aren't just for lighter fitter, but also for their benefits to recovery. And I completely agree with your last sentence, where there's money there'll be PEDs...actually, it doesn't even need money to attract them. It's naive to think it hasn't penetrated motorsport.

Also needing mention is that in for example, Australia, if your sport desires any Government funding, then you need to be a signatory to the ASADA (and hence WADA) codes. No sign, No Phillip Island GP.

As for the penalties, testing regimes, etc, I like Dick Pound's take on it all: "If you get caught you fail two tests, a drug test and an IQ test."

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JanBros
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by JanBros »

kenup283 wrote: To be honest I think the data just shows PEDs are a bit of a non-issue for motorcycle racing, and riders across all forms are just not using them. If they were, or if any kinds existed that could definitively help, I'd expect more hits than just 1%.
don't mix cause and consequence. Is it true when I say I have developped a pesticide to keep the elephants away, and that I works very very good where I live - Belgium ?

of course not. So saying PED's are not used because so little get caught might not be the cause, but the consequence that the anti-PED is working. And be sure, for every sport there are PED's that can make you better. If not during the race , then for training which again helps you during the race.

If you just let it free and allow PED's, all hell will brake lose and you will never know if the best rider won, or the guy with the best PED's.
Bi-stroker Parallelus Bi-cylindricus

Rossifumi
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Rossifumi »

kenup283 wrote:
To be honest I think the data just shows PEDs are a bit of a non-issue for motorcycle racing, and riders across all forms are just not using them. If they were, or if any kinds existed that could definitively help, I'd expect more hits than just 1%.
Did see somewhere that WADA say 1.5 - 1.6% of tests they do come back positive so motorcycle racing seems to be pretty much in line with everything else on that stat. And if you look at the % of positive tests at the Olympics the numbers are less than 0.5%!
http://sportsanddrugs.procon.org/view.r ... eID=004420
Having said that, the % of positive tests is not the same as the number of competitors using PED's!

kenup283
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by kenup283 »

I think it's worth clarifying. The dopping policy violations I cited are not cases of performance enhancing drugs being used.

Two or three violations were guys not filling forms for their asthma medicine, somthing that since 2010 has been removed from the banned list anyway; one more was alcohol, somthing that is a suplement to overal code that a few sports have and not a performance enhancer; two others were diminimus amounts of a banned substance, one from an energy drink and the other from dietary supplement, both just over the counter health store stuff; the last is medical prescription for ADHD which again just needed a form filled out and it wouldn't have been a violation...


That said, regarding consequence, looking at the data performance enhancing cases just aren't there, so one would say the historical levels of punishment priviously administered by FIM are sufficient. It's high risk and low reward already as it is. So no need to up the punishment to match other sports who may have one or two meets in a year. A one month ban in racing easily acrues that if not more depending on the series.

The West case was a step out for punishment in motorcycle racing, and the very next FIM administerd punishment was 15 times historical, and more in line with what the appeal from WADA taught them they should be doing.

If thats the new deal, a first offense has now gone from season set back to potentially career ending. Over nothing.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

How are the tests even carried out at the moment though?

I've heard a rumour of one (high international level) rider being a bit of a naughty lad, which I assume they wouldn't risk if there was any danger of them being caught.

In other sports if I read of recreational drug use I don't think it matters - heard of it happening to a few top tennis players of recent years for instance, but then the worst thing that can happen in that sport is a ball boy getting hit by a misplaced serve. Obviously being 'judgement impaired' in motorsport is a far more serious proposition.

Hanuman
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Hanuman »

MiniNinjaMk5 wrote:How are the tests even carried out at the moment though?
They knock on your door for a random test, you run to your 'Panic Room' to avoid the test. Then avoid penalties for missing/denying a test.

Or as Federer says, they don't even bother testing.

"Last year, when I was on the run - Dubai, Rotterdam, Indian Wells, when I won the three - and the year before that, I didn't get tested in one of those three events that I won."

Oh that's tennis....I doubt Motorcycling is more rigourous...and busting the minnows for energy drinks shows how serious you are about the scourge of PEDs.

kenup283
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by kenup283 »

The top riders have been tested several times, and many series regulars who've been around for awhile have also been tested more than once, you can read their names in the press realeses.

The FIM determine selection critea. The following is copied from it,

5.7 Selection of Riders to be tested
5.7.1 At FIM World Championships and Prize Events, the FIM CMI shall determine the number of finishing placement tests, random tests and target tests to be performed.
5.7.1.1 It is compulsory to test a minimum of three riders for each event (competition) or a minimum of two from each class: normally at least one rider from those who finish in the top three places and the others selected randomly or on a final position basis. If there are several classes (e.g. Superbike, Supersport, Superstock), the tests must be carried out in at least two classes.
5.7.1.2 The classes and riders to be tested will be determined by the FIM Medical and Anti-Doping Coordinator, the FIM Site Coordinator or the FIM Medical Representative. In addition, selection of further riders may be ordered at the discretion of the President of the International Jury or the Chief Steward so long as any Target Testing is not used for any purpose other than legitimate Doping control purposes.


http://www.fim-live.com/fileadmin/alfre ... DOPING.pdf

Interesting here that a rider who has given notice of retirement may not resume competing unless they notify the FIM at least six months prior to expected return to competion... So any Casey Stoner return rumors for 2015 would have to accompanied with some papers in the next few weeks..... That way he could be added for the out-of-competion testing, which also requires reporting your whereabouts and keeping them current months in advance, and failure to keep up your log is considered "dopping", which is simply defined as any anti doping policy violation.


Just for completeness I'll link below the Haga case for anyone interested.... you can read for your own just how badly it was handled, and even if reasonable doubt is presented over whether the testing was done correctly, it matters not.

http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/sites/ ... ts/281.pdf

Hanuman
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Hanuman »

kenup283 wrote:Just for completeness I'll link below the Haga case for anyone interested.... you can read for your own just how badly it was handled, and even if reasonable doubt is presented over whether the testing was done correctly, it matters not.

http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/sites/ ... ts/281.pdf
Sorry, how was this badly handled?
It read like the usual defences that try to circumvent Strict Liability. "I didn't understand". "The tests were wrong". "The samples weren't right". "Procedures were incorrect". "My rights were violated".
This kind of thing is exactly why the Doping Laws exist as they do. This is a Code of Conduct, not a set of laws. Reasonable doubt is nowhere to be seen, in fact, it's reversed in many ways to reasonable suspicion.
The perpetually overweight (for a rider, no scratch that, for anyone) Haga should have done more exercise, stopped drinking so much, layed off the fatty food and not taken dodgy "Herbal" remedies that just happen to contain both Ephedrine and Pseudo-Ephedrine - how else was it going to help his weight loss??

tz250w
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by tz250w »

Hanuman wrote:dodgy "Herbal" remedies
Just FYI, herbal medication is approved by the Japanese national health care system and is administered regularly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kampo

I don't know what he took, but it could just as well have been prescribed medication.

Edit: Okay, I read the article... Ephedrine.

Under the Japanese name "Maō-tō" that "dodgy herbal remedy" is one of the 148 "kampo" medications approved for use by the Japan Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare and is covered under the National Health Insurance program. It's kampo number is 27 and it's commonly prescribed for cold and flu symptom relief.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%BA%BB% ... 4%E6%B9%AF (drop that into Google Translate)

Now, does that make it right if an athlete takes it knowing it's a banned substance under the doping rules? No. What I do wish to point out here though is that while synthetic drugs may be the norm in many countries, that isn't necessarily the case throughout the world. He apparently took it in a dietary supplement but he just as easily may have had it prescribed to him by a Japanese doctor for a common cold.
Last edited by tz250w on Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hanuman
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Hanuman »

tz250w wrote:
Hanuman wrote:dodgy "Herbal" remedies
Just FYI, herbal medication is approved by the Japanese national health care system and is administered regularly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kampo

I don't know what he took, but it could just as well have been prescribed medication.
Yes, I know.
Google "Thermogen". This is what Haga was taking. This stuff is marketed under the usual EXTREME!!! Ripped!1one!!!1! Usual supplements stuff with the figleaf of 'natural' because it is based of some supposedly 'Thermogenic' herb or somesuch.

And it matters not whether his doctor prescribed it. In any case, his trainer suggested he take Thermogen.
The athlete and the athlete alone is responsible for what goes into that athletes body. Strict liability. And it's a sad fact, any other way makes it pretty easy to cheat -> I didn't know...My Doctor (Michelle Ferrari...) said it's OK, etc etc.

Sorry, but he failed his piss-test and his IQ test.

tz250w
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by tz250w »

Whatever. You posted while I was editing in information above. Yes, I agree athletes need to be very careful about what they ingest... I'm just trying to point out that a lot of substances and medications may be viewed differently in certain parts of the world. You said "dodgy", I disagree with that in principle as it implied herbal medication was to be considered so as a whole. Perhaps that wasn't what you meant.

Anyhow, I seriously doubt he took it thinking it was going to decrease his lap times. Did he fail an IQ test because of it? Not in my opinion. Did he make a mistake? Yep.

Hanuman
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Hanuman »

tz250w wrote:Whatever. You posted while I was editing in information above. Yes, I agree athletes need to be very careful about what they ingest... I'm just trying to point out that a lot of substances and medications may be viewed differently in certain parts of the world. You said "dodgy", I disagree with that in principle as it implied herbal medication was to be considered so as a whole. Perhaps that wasn't what you meant.

Anyhow, I seriously doubt he took it thinking it was going to decrease his lap times. Did he fail an IQ test because of it? Not in my opinion. Did he make a mistake? Yep.
Your point that substances and medications are viewed differently in certain parts of the world is a good one. And one I would agree (for the Haga case) if he was crunching up some sticks of Ma Huang and making a tea. But it was a typical gym-fan style supplement: Thermogen.
The 'dodgy' was indeed meant to refer to the advertising of 'natural' ingredients in off-the-shelf supplements, as though they make them 'better'. Hence my 'figleaf' comment.

As for why he was taking it, it was for weight-loss, the ephedrine is the key here, hence my point as to why else would he take something to suppress his appetite.

But that's not what he was done for.
Here's the TAS/CAS finding:

Finally the Panel is satisfied that ephedrine has a potential performance-enhancing effect even for motorcycle riders. The two witnesses Dr. de Boer and Dr. Müller testified that ephedrine has a stimulating effect on humans. Primarily it has a positive effect on the lungs by easing
respiration. Secondly it has also an effect on the human brain by reducing the signals of bodily tiredness. The Panel is of the opinion that these two effects potentially allow a motorcycle rider to increase his performance during a competition. That is all that is required under Article 09.8.1 of the FIM Medical Code.


Now I agree that he probably wasn't looking for those effects, but when your career may depend on a sometimes capricious and politically driven anti-doping environment, he should have looked at the label more carefully.

oldboyonrgv
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by oldboyonrgv »

Yup only one person is in control of what you put in your body and that's you! as an athlete it is part of your responsibility to ensure you are aware of the rules and that you adhere to them - ignorance is no excuse.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

The real losers in the Haga issue were the tens of thousands of fans (I was one of them) that had turned up to watch him fight Edwards for the title at Brands Hatch.

Something that could have been prevented with a more clear and concise rule about this sort of thing.
Hanuman wrote: They knock on your door for a random test, you run to your 'Panic Room' to avoid the test. Then avoid penalties for missing/denying a test.

Or as Federer says, they don't even bother testing.

"Last year, when I was on the run - Dubai, Rotterdam, Indian Wells, when I won the three - and the year before that, I didn't get tested in one of those three events that I won.".
Doesn't surprise me at all. I know they do some testing in tennis (South Americans/Argentinians & Czech/Eastern European players seem to be the main offenders), but you get the situation now where a guy goes from top 20 anonymity to winning the US Open, absolutely thrashing some of the best players in the world on the way to the final. Dodgy as hell.

offroadtoday
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by offroadtoday »

For those of you who are interested in this topic, this is a pretty enlightening video to say the least. It is long, but there is some pretty shocking stuff in here about how the athletes simply avoid testing due to technicalities, and Victor names names. I particularly like his story on about Serna Williams locking herself in a safe room to avoid a test. In the U.S. Sx and MX world we are all waiting to see what happens with James Stewart and his failed test.

http://youtu.be/azzhD2QJ8B0

kenup283
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Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by kenup283 »

Hanuman wrote:
kenup283 wrote:Just for completeness I'll link below the Haga case for anyone interested.... you can read for your own just how badly it was handled, and even if reasonable doubt is presented over whether the testing was done correctly, it matters not.

http://jurisprudence.tas-cas.org/sites/ ... ts/281.pdf
Sorry, how was this badly handled?
It read like the usual defences that try to circumvent Strict Liability. "I didn't understand". "The tests were wrong". "The samples weren't right". "Procedures were incorrect". "My rights were violated".
This kind of thing is exactly why the Doping Laws exist as they do. This is a Code of Conduct, not a set of laws. Reasonable doubt is nowhere to be seen, in fact, it's reversed in many ways to reasonable suspicion.
The perpetually overweight (for a rider, no scratch that, for anyone) Haga should have done more exercise, stopped drinking so much, layed off the fatty food and not taken dodgy "Herbal" remedies that just happen to contain both Ephedrine and Pseudo-Ephedrine - how else was it going to help his weight loss??

Reading the report I saw it as badly handled in the following ways;

- The FIM decided that his case would be heard 15 min prior to the start of the first race at Hockenhiem. Making it a practical impossibility that he could attend or even be heard.
- His appeal was then handled by the FIM entirely in the French language. Making again a practical imposibilty for him to participate.
- The FIM tested him after the second race, yet disqualified him for race 1 also, which is a separate competion and they had no data to uphold.
- The specific gravity of his urine sample supports that he was dehydrated. The effect concentrates the levels and as he was just marginally over the cutoff limit, one of doctors felt a correction should have been applied and if so the result his sample would be under the tolerance.

I am not asking you to agree, but do understand cold medicine can put you over the limit even days latter after last dose. Regarding eastern vs Western, pseudo ephedrine largley ts replacement in west has been given a cutoff over twice (25mg/ml) that of the original (10 mg/ml) which is still used commonly in other parts of the eastern world. Dare I say could this be a cultural bias. Then consider the only reason we know what Haga took is because he was forth coming open, honest and wanted to be heard. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... po=80.7692

But to disscus these details was not my intent, I only wanted to call out the apparent step change in punishment and to highlight how easy it is to get pinched for this stuff. Aside from that I was curious how others on here thought about it and whether this makes sense for motocycle racing.


Now I have a different curiously / question...

How would you feel if MM tested positive tomorrow for somthing like this?

And then the strict liabilty, hardline, zero tillearnce apporach sees him suspended for the rest of the season and he is banned from all off next year too.

Would you still say this is the right thing for motorcycle racing?

Would it be the aha moment to explain why he so easily beats the other top level riders?

I think not.

Rossifumi
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:50 pm

Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by Rossifumi »

kenup283 wrote: Now I have a different curiously / question...

How would you feel if MM tested positive tomorrow for somthing like this?

And then the strict liabilty, hardline, zero tillearnce apporach sees him suspended for the rest of the season and he is banned from all off next year too.

Would you still say this is the right thing for motorcycle racing?

Would it be the aha moment to explain why he so easily beats the other top level riders?

I think not.
If MM tests positive for a banned substance then yes, he should receive a ban. It wouldn't explain his performance in the way PED's do for purely athletic sports (Lance Armstrong for eg.) but strength and endurance do definitely play a part in motorcycle racing. The argument you seem to be making re PED's having no influence over motorcycle racing could equally be applied to football(soccer), tennis, golf, baseball or any sport relying on skill. And the argument you make regarding dehydration for Haga just illustrates that there is always an 'expert' that can explain away a positive test - that's why strict liability was introduced and Haga was over the limit when tested, his expert should've warned him of the effects of dehydration beforehand.

kenup283
Posts: 1314
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:40 am

Re: Performance enhancing substances

Post by kenup283 »

Rossifumi I know that is what will be said, but just how long should that ban be...

Over a certain point I dont think it helps anyone by making it that long or longer for a first offense. I think for motorcycle racing a DQ for the race preceding the positive test, and a ban for two further races would be sufficient.

I also think somthing similar would be appropriate for other skill sports too. After a second offense then I'd say ok throw the book at them, but there is no room given here for honest mistakes, and bieng signed onto same deal as other sports where human power is the primary mover just seems disproportionate to me.

Especially when there is so much here to keep up with, unless you are on a top level team already and have someone helping you to understand all this that you trust with your life, then it is simply just seen as a riders problem and tough cookies if you don't already know that geranium oil contains Methylhexaneamine.

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