Factory Rides

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
Emoo
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Factory Rides

Post by Emoo »

With the top riders being out of contract at the end of this year and Casey moving on, there is an interview on BBC sport with Cal saying that he has held early discussions with the factory, obviously a factory ride would be his preference for next year. I don't want to open up a whole debate that is well covered on other posts, but it struck me as being very early in the season to be talking about next year, granted various posts and media speculation is rife but do the factories open talks so early?

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Zaphod
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Zaphod »

I was thinking along the same lines.

Somehow when I put my thoughts forward, it gets misinterperated as an attack on a rider somebody likes.....but anyway, here goes.

Pure speculation and opinion from what I think I see, even if it is so stupidly early in the season.

Based on his current disposition and comments, as well as Jarvisi's thinly veiled threats from the off season, Yamaha seem to have made their mind up, or have at the front of their thoughts, that Spies will be going at the end of the season.

This is not about whether I think (which I don't) that it's fair, or that he's lost his ability, it's about how cut and thrust modern era GP is. The silly season used to start around 2/3rds of the way through a season. Maybe these sorts of things always occured (disscusions with riders) this early, and were just less publicised to the outside world (highly probable), but now, the silly season seems to start somewhere during, or shortly after, pre-season testing.

Doesn't give someone who is having a shit run of luck, or confidence(as Spies currently is) much of a chance at redemption and keeping their seat.

Then there are the annomalies like Pedrosa.......does just enough to keep his employer guessing/hoping that next season will be the one.

In the current climate of meeting expectations somewhat immediately or you're gone, it's quite fair to assume a rider like Doohan would have had a much shorter, and quite possibly less distinguished, career. Remember how long it took him to get winning ? I know all the reasons why it took him so long, my point is, Spies could be another Doohan......but by the looks of it, he won't get the same amount of time to find his feet, so that the world can see.

Which is also how I arrive at the point of view that, regardless of being being born with the talent to pull it off successfully , Stoner had to ride that pile of junk Ducati the way he did.By virtue of that talent, he didn't end up on the scrap heap like all the others that went through that team.


No time to wait,the instantaneous media reporting of today means that sponsors, and the factory, want the results they feel they should have NOW ! If that guy hasn't performed up to expectations in a season or two......get another guy.
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lebowski
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by lebowski »

I agree with this Zaphod.

I would also like to have seen RdP continue on the LCR rather than have experienced the disaster that was Elias on that ride. Randy was showing some serious speed before he was injured. I realize he crashes too much but I think he is at least capable of the pace to run with the top riders. Plus I miss Lauren!

Billysbones
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Billysbones »

Re: the Doohan thing.
Yes it took Doohan ages to win a title, but he worked for HRC, who seem a little more patient for their chosen ones to start winning. Pedrosa has been there since 2006 (?), and has yet to win a title. HRC seem content to have him as the "almost man", in the hope that he eventually comes good in the way that Doohan did.
I can't remember any other manufacturer being loyal for so long to a non-winning rider (championship winning) than HRC seem to be.

Spies was obviously very talented on the superbike, but despite the odd flash of brilliance on the 800's, he certainly doen't seem to have gelled with the 1000, in the same way that, say, Crutchlow obviously has.

I hope that Spies stays in MotoGP, but it has to be said that there are other people on the grid who are more deserving of the, arguably, top factory bike out there.

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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

With Doohan it was injury, rather than lack of speed, which kept him from winning the title IIRC on 2 separate occasions. It was obvious the speed was there, and if he could make a season without having a horrific crash, then he could win. Obviously Honda must have thought so as well, and their support of him was rewarded with a crushing sequence of championship titles.

Similarly, although I don't think he has the out-and-out speed of Doohan (and has since been eclipsed by his team-mate) but I have often thought the same about Pedrosa. On at least 2 occasions his season has been jilted by an accident. He has a little bit of the 'China doll syndrome' about him, similar to other riders like Hopkins or Neukichner, of braking something almost every time they hit the tarmac. But, I can understand Honda wanting to keep him, you get the feeling that if in 2013 things fall just right, he could win a title.

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Squidpuppet
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Squidpuppet »

Billysbones wrote:Pedrosa ....I can't remember any other manufacturer being loyal for so long to a non-winning rider (championship winning) than HRC seem to be..
Colin Edwards, seven years at Yamaha without a race win.

Gar
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Gar »

Rossi kept Edwards in his seat in my opinion - Yamaha did anything that Rossi wanted before Lorenzo came along.

This is not early in the season to be talking contracts any more - I'd bet that discussions are going on all over the paddock.
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Squidpuppet
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Squidpuppet »

I dont think its too early for Cal to be speaking with Honda. In fact, I think its quite wise.

There are at least three very valid reasons to be doing so.

1. He knows NOW that a seat is available in that garage. Thats different than the Jorge/Ben seats, as it will take (much?) time to know whats going to happen there. Will a seat even be available at Yamaha? Why procrastinate?
2. He knows that either he or Dovi will get the boot at the end of the season. Why wait until he (maybe) gets dismissed by Herve to be looking for a ride?
3. He is in great form right now. Shop yourself while you are looking good.

I seriously doubt that he will land there, but I'd be quite pleased if the did.

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Faster1
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Faster1 »

Squidpuppet wrote:
Billysbones wrote:Pedrosa ....I can't remember any other manufacturer being loyal for so long to a non-winning rider (championship winning) than HRC seem to be..
Colin Edwards, seven years at Yamaha without a race win.
Colin is the unsung/un-recognized M1 tester who had more to do with that bikes success (especially during the Michelin days) than most give him credit for. Mr. Litmus if you'll have him. IMO - money well spent at Yamaha for sure.

I think that Pedrosa is also the perfect #2 rider at a team and he should stay there as long as there is a number 1 on the other side of the orange and black divider wall.
As long as there can only be 1 champion and you have a championship capable winning bike, how can anyone not think Pedrosa is a great long term choice. If he can't win, he stays out of the way. And aside from this maiden 1000cc year he has earned his alien stripes. I really think that before this season is over Dani will best Lorenzo to the line a few times.

The biggest difference/problem for Ben is that he is being "schooled" by the satellite copies.
.


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Lifelong Yamaha Racing fan, but currently riding a Duc,,,, don't tell anyone 8-)


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Squidpuppet
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Squidpuppet »

Faster1 wrote: Colin is the unsung/un-recognized M1 tester who had more to do with that bikes success (especially during the Michelin days) than most give him credit for. Mr. Litmus if you'll have him. IMO - money well spent at Yamaha for sure.
I agree. I think there were quite a few benefits for keeping him around for so long.
I think that Pedrosa is also the perfect #2 rider at a team and he should stay there as long as there is a number 1 on the other side of the orange and black divider wall.
As long as there can only be 1 champion and you have a championship capable winning bike, how can anyone not think Pedrosa is a great long term choice. If he can't win, he stays out of the way. And aside from this maiden 1000cc year he has earned his alien stripes. I really think that before this season is over Dani will best Lorenzo to the line a few times.
I agree here as well. Except about his first season. I think he showed Alien status right out of the premier class gate. Podiumed his first race, Eight podiums total and two wins.

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Re: Factory Rides

Post by sir_nj »

Squidpuppet wrote:
Faster1 wrote:
I think that Pedrosa is also the perfect #2 rider at a team and he should stay there as long as there is a number 1 on the other side of the orange and black divider wall.
As long as there can only be 1 champion and you have a championship capable winning bike, how can anyone not think Pedrosa is a great long term choice. If he can't win, he stays out of the way. And aside from this maiden 1000cc year he has earned his alien stripes. I really think that before this season is over Dani will best Lorenzo to the line a few times.
I agree here as well. Except about his first season. I think he showed Alien status right out of the premier class gate. Podiumed his first race, Eight podiums total and two wins.
ah, but maybe Faster was just slightly out with his punctuation. So if it had read

"If he can't win, he stays out of the way and aside from this maiden 1000cc year."

:lol:


If I were Cal I would absolutely be talking about next years seat now. The factories know they can get him at a bargin basement price and Cal woudl likely accept that for his first year. If you want a second rider in your team who is going to give it a damm good go then Cal is looking very good at the moment.

From memory Doohan didn't win a race until he was in his third year, but once he did he instantly jumped to alien status as any one of 5 appeared capable of winning on any day. The first year for Doohan was a little different compared to the current factory rides as his bike/frame was very different to his team mates. They had the same fairing and sponsorship but underneath they were different animals.

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Zaphod
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Zaphod »

sir_nj wrote: From memory Doohan didn't win a race until he was in his third year, but once he did he instantly jumped to alien status as any one of 5 appeared capable of winning on any day. The first year for Doohan was a little different compared to the current factory rides as his bike/frame was very different to his team mates. They had the same fairing and sponsorship but underneath they were different animals.

Exactly, it had nothing to do with injury. I couldn't have been bothered going into the specifics of why, as it wasn't the main point I was trying to illustrate. Each rider has different circumstances,....and abilities.

The main question in the first post was, It struck emoo as strange that talks were occuring this early, and is it normal for factories to do this.

Nowdays, with the ever present media on the hunt for anything of relevence to print, it would appear that things have changed so that early discussions are the norm.

In saying that, it's highly probable that these sorts of discussions always occured, but were not published as the media had less information on the topic...ie, it was more closely guarded/discreet.


It would be interesting to hear Krops take on this..............


To kill off the Doohan speculation, I believe his only "serious" injury during his apprenticeship was a finger or hand injury....can't remember.

But for those that are interested, he gives some idea of how it played out in this.........It's relevent to this discussion from about the 4:30 mark.

http://youtu.be/uWBI0LbTxi0

In the current days of electronic media reporting, and social media.......you tell me who would have the opportunity to go 25 races before their first win (can't remember if he podiumed or not during that time), in a factory team, without severe (if irrelevant) criticisim of their performances, and their right to occupy that seat ?

That's right.....no-one.

Geez......Melandri was considered to be an untalented, under-performer after one season on a red dog......"Someone else should have his seat, he's useless !", and Capirex was considered to be getting on, maybe lacking some drive and also probably should make way for "X" rider........

Most of the above posts highlight exactly this.....the topic started off with a question on one subject, and yet again it's turned into a rider comparison/evaluation as to why they do/don't deserve their spot/status.
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Hanuman
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Hanuman »

While I completely agree with your premise, Zaphod, I don't think Doohan's a great example.

In his first season, he was very much the junior Rothmans rider, with 2 WCs in the other seats (yeah, the Lawson bike was a Kanemoto effort).
In his second season he got on the podium a few times, and won one....plus came 3rd in WC (and first Honda).
In his third season, several wins, 2nd in the WC....It didn't take him long and this was racing in the Rainey era....
Then he knackered himself....

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dave_m
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by dave_m »

Zaphod wrote:In the current days of electronic media reporting, and social media.......you tell me who would have the opportunity to go 25 races before their first win, in a factory team, without severe (if irrelevant) criticisim of their performances, and their right to occupy that seat ?

That's right.....no-one.

Geez......Melandri was considered to be an untalented, under-performer after one season on a red dog......"Someone else should have his seat, he's useless !"
I'm not sure that's right. Nicky didn't have a win his first two years at HRC or Ducati, Dovizioso only had the one win in the wet his first 3 years, Edwards didn't have a win at Yamaha, Hopkins didn't win at Suzuki and Ducati will most likely want to keep Rossi even if he doesn't get a win this year. Melandri at Ducati isn't really an apt comparison to anything, as he wanted out.

I don't think Doohan's first couple years are useful as an example of why to give Spies a longer chance to prove himself, as Doohan had a worst first year (9th vs 6th), but was obviously worth keeping by his second (3rd in the championship). And Spies is being noticed because his results (so far) are not good at all, he's the next to last factory rider in the standings and has been the last Yamaha in each race so far. If he was on a satellite bike we'd be wondering about his seat for next year, so it's an even bigger topic of discussion as a factory rider.

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Grahluk
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Factory Rides

Post by Grahluk »

Previous to the current situation where there are only 4 bikes total in 2 teams that are reasonable bases for a title run maybe there were more options for the top riders. Gives those two factory teams not only the pick of the field but also knowledge that they are the gateway to wins & the championship. It only makes sense that those teams would only want two #1 riders in champion form instead of one guy in the hunt and a #2 that's a couple seasons on either side of that potential.

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Zaphod
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Zaphod »

I'm trying not to make this about Doohan, Spies, or anyone in particular. Granted, the examples may not be 100% accurate.

I see it as factories playing the hand they are dealt, in regards to how long people get to prove themselves.

Lets take HRC,

When Dani was signed it was, apart from his possible talent and the expectation of what he would achieve, for a number of sponsorship deals and other factors. One of which was, who else was there ? Rossi was the bechmark, and he was gone. Everybody else had finished lower ( in the minor classes) than Dani, so he was the obvious choice. (don't go off on the "They should have picked Stoner due to his LCR performances, that's irrelevant in this ).

Dani's done what Dani's done......good on him.

Now, it seemed pretty obvious ( to me) that Sic was being groomed as the next to go into HRC, getting Stoner may have negated that option in the short term(due to HRC going back toa two bike team), though the pressure may have still been on Dani to step up and achieve, or risk replacement by Sic. Granted, there are other factors (Puig, Repsol) that also figure in that hypothisis.

With Stoner in, and Marquez looking like the next HRC pilot for 2014/15, Dani must've been sweating a bit


The point I am wandering aimlessly around there is, Pedrosa has had, I believe, his extended stay due to there being slim pickings for HRC. When the pickings are rich, nobodys seat is guarenteed unless they perform. That's the nature of the business.

Yamaha have some pretty good talent, and therefore many options, as to who will go into the number 2 factory seat. Bad news for Spies, for as well as the pressure of coming to grips with GP racing, and GP bikes.......he has at least two people trying to get a hand on his seat.......and the factory saying, "well, nothing personal.....it's business"

Lorenzo is safe, due to results.........or if the speculation is right, maybe Yamaha are in trouble if he goes to HRC.


Where I thought the Doohan example tied into this was, Lawson had left, Gardner was doing......ok....... and they had a young guy who looked promising...Rainey was never ( by appearances) never going to leave Yamaha, Schwantz, for me in this equation, is the anomalie......maybe he would have jumped at the chance to be on a Honda, maybe they were fishing for him as a Gardner replacement....who knows.......the main comparison I see is, Honda had slim pickings, so hanging on to Doohan was their best bet at the time.

Much like it appears they have done in regards to Dani.


If they had rich pickings, who can say if they'd have taken the same decisions.


I also find the Beattie/HRC thing ties in with this.

Doohans doing great, Itoh was getting good places......and Beattie was romping it in.

their WSBK program wasn't going so well, so take the next best guy to Doohan and slot him into the WSBK program to get results. (Except Beattie responded with "what d'ya mean Superbikes !!??.....I hate the bloody things !...see ya later !")

Rich pickings.

Now, hypotheticaly, if Spies ended up back in WSBK on a Yamaha.........is it because they think he's no good.........or because it might (should) bolster their peformance in that catagory, and still have two really hungry guys to throw into the mix as support (or possible plan B if he leaves) to lorenzo.

Rich pickings.

With Suzuki......well, no-one really wants to ride it. Who's the best guy left, that didn't get the ride he wanted...but wants to be in MotoGP........."Hey, Alvaro !....How you doing ?...have you got a minute ?"


If they continued, one gets the feeling Bautista would have had that seat for just about as long as he wanted.

Slim pickings.


Could be wrong, it's just how I think they (the Factories/teams) work.
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sir_nj
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by sir_nj »

Zaphod wrote: Most of the above posts highlight exactly this.....the topic started off with a question on one subject, and yet again it's turned into a rider comparison/evaluation as to why they do/don't deserve their spot/status.
cold in tassie today Zaphod? :)

Factory rides, in fact any rides in MotoGP are all about rider comparison/evaluation as there are only a limited number of seats.

You raised an interesting point about some riders not seeming to receive a fair trial and for some I kind of agree but there are some exceptions, Nicky Hayden stands out. The riders before him typically came from 250 ring dings, they knew the circuits and knew two strokes, those that didn't (Doohan for example) may have got a longer trial. Nicky came in on 4 strokes so he should theoretically have been instantly at home and those cheeky little monkeys who were previously 250ccWCs again proved that they could win in their first year on a factory bike.

IMO the most damming comparison for Spies is not his lack of wins or his team mates position in the WC but his finishes compared to the Sat Yamahas. Above all else, he should be in front of them or at least one of them on any given day. You can't but help make that comparison as they have roughly the same equipment. On his day Spies may be better than both Cal and Dovi but if he puts himself under pressure and falls apart then that rider is no use to anyone at this level. I'm not saying everything is caused by him but at the end of the day he is the person first in the firing line (no pun intended).

Cal's manager is likely talking to both Honda and Yamaha but we can all work out which one is currently in the position to offer a seat and so which one is likely in the more serious discussions. Dovi might not be too welcome at HRC at the moment but I don't think they super glued the door shut for him, just maybe not next year.

One other point, with virtually all riders out of a contract at the end of the year their managers had better be talking now or they should be fired. How many good riders do we see each year in high level championships end up without a ride becase the talks stalled or failed at the last minute and they were only talking to one team?

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Re: Factory Rides

Post by sir_nj »

should point out Zaphod we posted almost at the same time and I see we are on a similar vein ;)

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Zaphod
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Zaphod »

sir_nj wrote: cold in tassie today Zaphod? :)

:lol: :lol: ......no, I have two computers in front of me.......one of them is supposed to be having reports for work being completed on it........that's the one I'm ignoring ! :lol: ;) Sunny and 12 degrees. Back to your neck of the woods in August (going to Whakatane....work)

re, posting at the same time....I was wondering how you got in so quick !

Anyway, good points. This years silly season has probably started early due to just that......everybody's unsigned at the end of this year.Time to get cracking.

Agree also with what you have said about Spies. I get flogged when racing enduro's, because I ride at 7/10ths, and try not to fall off and hurt myself. Spies seems to follow that approach (not that he's as poor at riding as me), as do a few others.

While you wouldn't want anyone to hurt themselves, going nuts in your first year during FP and Qualifying, and placing as well as possible in races seems to pay better dividends.Also seems to help in coming to terms with riding to the expected, or required level.

Lorenzo.


Funny you mentioned the two banger thing...........remember how many riders were sad that they were going from the minor classes, as they felt you just wouldn't learn the same race craft and required riding style for GP on a 4 stroke, that you would on a 2 stroke ? I think Lorenzo was one of them...........and it seemed to be all the front runners that mentioned it.

I don't know which list is the longest,

a) a lot of successful ex superbike riders who cross to GP's seem to struggle, while the guys that go the other way almost immediately succeed.

b)though there have also been lots of minor class champions who get to the big bikes and don't do so well.

Spies seems to be destined for "a)".....for whatever reasons, and that's not intended as an attack on his abilities, dealing in facts.....he's just not cutting it.

So to expand on the topic of Cal,

I'd pick him over Dovi because, without needing new parts, he's willing to ride the wheels off what he's got to beat the next guy. No disrespect to Dovi, or him buying stuff, but if it were me looking, one rider just went and put better bits on his bike to (only just) beat his much less experienced team-mate.

I'll take the guy who can perform just as well on an (however slightly) inferior bike.

If you want another comparison, Who you gunna pick...Stoner (what Cal appears to be), or Pedrosa (Dovi)

Please, don't think I mean Cal is in the same league as Stoner..........it's just a comparison, or analogy.

If Lorezo goes to Honda, well.......whack both of them on the factory bikes and cross your fingers.
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Cam D
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Cam D »

Pedrosa earned a seat at the top of Honda just due to his talent. I don't know that Dani would have been sweating too much in regard to Simo. Dani was generally beating him so the flavour of the moment - Ben/Cal measurement (beating your lesser team-mate) would make you think Dani was pretty safe. To me he seemed faster than Simo and both were on factory machines, he also stayed up right more often. Honda have a history of being patient with their riders personal development/grooming, and it has often borne fruit. Mick and Nick are two excellent examples. Personally... I reckon Dani still has a title in him and has a couple of competitive years left.
Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.

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Zaphod
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Zaphod »

I don't see Dani and a title together in the same place at the same time.. Great rider, but 6 years in the prime seat, and no dice.

.......Hayden pulled it off with less attention from HRC in regards to his preferences, or requirements, in the machinery under him.......and Pedrosa taking him out.

At least Nicky let him apologise. :shock:

Sic's bike was not quite what Dani had. and his performances in his short time are better than anyone before or since......when he stayed upright. :( :cry:

Marquez will arrive, and my guess is Honda are trying pretty hard to get Lorenzo.

Lorenzo can push and go with Stoner more often than not. Maybe not beat him, but within a 10th or 2 on lap times. Pedrosa can do the same.......for one or two laps, usually in qualifying.

Dani usually finishes third (or worse) in these encounters. The odd flash of brilliance, but not the metronome performance of Lorenzo.

All that, and I can't remember a season where he hasn't raced with, or missed races, due to injury.


As for HRC grabbing him on talent alone.....didn't repsol want to maintain the prescence of a spanish rider in the team, to go along with their sponsorship ?

I don't think his injury stats look that good......and would seem to average about 2 wins a year, and around 2.8 in the championship.

For what Honda had experienced prior to Dani (and Hayden) being the number one rider(s), these numbers aren't that great. In no way terrible.........but not great. And going off these numbers, I don't see him as a world champ.

Not as long as Lorenzo is upright and competitive.

True in regards to Honda and their patience though.

..And he is a very, very tough, gritty little bloke.

On stats, he's out Mamola'd Mamola........and in injuries, is closing in on, or possibly beating, Schwantz's record !


Copied from Crappypedia....

2006 Malaysian motorcycle Grand Prix (MotoGP) Small fracture of the small left toe and loss of cutaneous matter on the right knee. 5 stitches in that vertical cut.

2007 Turkish motorcycle Grand Prix (MotoGP) Thoracic trauma, blow to the left gluteus and neck trauma.

2007 Japanese motorcycle Grand Prix (MotoGP) Post-traumatic arthritis with inflammation to the small toe of the left foot.

2008 Sepang test 2008 (MotoGP) Fracture of the second metacarpal in the right hand, with three diaphyseal fragments, which are the bones that are found in the middle part of the metacarpus.

2008 German motorcycle Grand Prix (MotoGP) General inflammation of the left hand with hematomas in the veins of the extensor tendons. Displaced fracture of the distal phalanx of the left index finger. A sprain of the interphalangeal articulation next to the left middle finger. Fracture of the large bone of the left wrist. Sprain of the lateral external ligament of the right ankle.

2008 Australian motorcycle Grand Prix (MotoGP) Capsular hematoma on the left knee that had to be treated two months after.

2009 Qatar test (MotoGP) Fracture of the radius of the left arm and contusion on the left knee that required a skin graft, because the scar re-opened from an operation before Christmas.

2009 Italian motorcycle Grand Prix (MotoGP) Incomplete fracture of the greater trochanter of the right femur. A fracture without displacement, an injury that requires absolute rest and treatment with painkillers.

2009 December (MotoGP) Underwent an operation to remove a screw from his left wrist.

2010 Japanese motorcycle Grand Prix (MotoGP) Four-fragment chip fracture of the left collarbone and a Grade 1 ankle sprain.

2011 French motorcycle Grand Prix (MotoGP) Fractured right collarbone.
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WayneG
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by WayneG »

Zaphod wrote:Sic's bike was not quite what Dani had. and his performances in his short time are better than anyone before or since......when he stayed upright.
As much as I was a huge Marco fan, your statement above is simply not reflected by his results, even when he did stay upright. I fully expected Marco to make the step up to a consistent front runner and believe he would have given more time, but in honesty his results for the 2 seasons he rode MotoGP were not that spectacular.

His 2011 bike was a full works bike identical to CS, DP and AD, HRC were forced to run 4 works bike as they wanted Marco on works equipment but were also forced to provide a bike for AD due to his contract conditions.

2010 (satellite bike) (qual/race)
15/11, 16/11, 13/10, 11/9, 9/7, 8/9, 8/-, 8/6, 9/-, 12/11, 8/7, 9/14, 9/7, 8/6, 11/8, 4/6, 10/4, 3/6.

2011 (factory bike) (qual/race)
4/5, 5/-, 2/-, 2/5, 1/6, 2/-, 1/9, 3/5, 4/6, 5/-, 5/3, 7/12, 5/4, 6/4, 6/4, 2/2, RIP

I don't mean to denigrate Marco in any way, he was a huge talent and may well have made it to the very top but his results in MotoGP weren't IMO better than anyone before or since.
My first love was my motorbike, we went through everything together. Wind, rain, fences..

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Zaphod
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Zaphod »

Fair point, I meant as far as other gresini riders, but I've probably got that wrong too.( that's not a sarcastic comment, being honest)

I thought that Gresini had a "full works bike", minus the seamless super-dooper transmission, and a couple of other tweaks. That's all I meant by "not quite"the same bike.


I'm with you though.....damn I was hoping for great things from that guy. He did bloody good for somebody (physically) head, shoulders and hair above the rest of his peers.

Image

To tie all this back to Spies, using Sic's results to help correlate........I wonder if physical size makes life harder compared to the others. Well, I don't wonder really....I reckon it does.
2:02.443

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Faster1
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Faster1 »

Zaphod wrote:I don't see Dani and a title together in the same place at the same time.. Great rider, but 6 years in the prime seat, and no dice.
,,, not untrue Zap, and you listed the injuries perfectly, but I need to throw another asterisk in the mix that makes the above statement not all together telling.

One can argue that 2 or three of those years, Dani (like everyone else) could not beat Rossi - Can't really subtract points there

And still you can argue that at up to three of those "6 years" Dani was on a bike which lacked the excellence/ability of the last 2 (800cc) years

And still again, after Nicky, he was the best Honda rider right up until the Stoner years.

Being 3rd behind those 2 speed legends is a far cry from failing, and without the crash/injuries, many (including myself) think that he would have had Lorenzo's title. I know, it's all part of racing and in the end the scoreboard doesn't lie. Point is, there is a very short list of people who are faster than DP and with Stoner gone, the list might have just been cut in half.

And that makes next year his best chance yet of adding his name to list of champions.
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Lifelong Yamaha Racing fan, but currently riding a Duc,,,, don't tell anyone 8-)


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Squidpuppet
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Re: Factory Rides

Post by Squidpuppet »

Zaphod wrote: Cal + Dovi...
If Lorezo goes to Honda, well.......whack both of them on the factory bikes and cross your fingers.
So Jarvis can take over the cold sweats and heart pounding from Herve. :lol:

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