HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in MGP

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Desmo44
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Desmo44 »

Interesting perspective on Stoner's retirement by Frank Melling:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/817/13187 ... ation.aspx
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Flyinlow27
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Flyinlow27 »

that was a great read.

I'm really appalled with all these articles I'm reading saying that Casey 'owes' the sport. It's straight up disrespectful to say that a human being owes a business venture when that individual has already given so much only to be considered a second grade rider for the majority of his MotoGP career. And then the question is, what exactly does Casey owe the sport? More time? More wins? Even as he dominated on the Honda in 2011, everyone was still so focused on the woes of the Ducati and not the utter brilliance of watching Casey wring the neck out of one of the most subtle bikes on the grid.

More power to him for walking away on top.

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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Rossifumi »

Flyinlow27 wrote:
I'm really appalled with all these articles I'm reading saying that Casey 'owes' the sport.
have you got links? I've only seen articles expressing surprise and shock.

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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Cam D »

Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.

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Squidpuppet
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Squidpuppet »

Cam D wrote:http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/10239 ... nice-story

Livio on Casey and Valentino
Livio Said...

LS: When Nakamoto said it wouldn’t be possible he had counted on continuing with Casey and Dani. Casey’s retirement however changes things: Rossi began his career in 500 with Honda, and maybe he could end his career with Honda. It would be a good story.
Stay tuned.

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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Desmo44 »

Livio Said:
"In this world its easier to live if you know how to lie, but this isn’t his case."

Surely a Stoneresque comment on Stoner... :D
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

Interesting that Honda seem opposed to the Rookie rule, and by the sounds of that would want to circumvent it.

Although, the interviewer doesn't make reference to T. Moody's quote from Ezpelata which opens with "No No NOOO!" :)

Gar
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Gar »

Honda has been trying to pressure Ezpeleta on the rookie rule all this year. Ezpeleta said that he was standing firm, but there seems a little waffle lately.

I hope that he stands his ground.
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by TwoStroke Institute »

That means we can expect Carmelo will do one of his famous Circ de Solaire triple pike backflips on the rookie rule.
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Oscar
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Oscar »

Cam D wrote:No it doesn't matter. I just put up an opinion, you felt it was necessary to add your opinion and I responded.
The question and answers were excellent that's why I said - "Either way it's nice to hear Casey having his say. I enjoyed hearing Barros' comments once he stopped racing, same with KRJR. Really opens up your eyes to what's actually going on."
Apologies if that came over as having a go at you - it wasn't meant that way at all, just meaning to say exactly what you have said - it was an excellent interview in terms of giving us a look at Stoner saying what he said with no possibility of mis-translation or selective quoting that destroyed the context of his answers. Stoner has been a god's gift to journalists who wanted a word-bite to reinforce their own slant because he has never (almost certainly doesn't even think about) the way his words can be mis-used.
Flyinlow27 wrote: It's straight up disrespectful to say that a human being owes a business venture when that individual has already given so much
There are very few careers in which the understanding between the 'managers' and the 'staff' include the very real possibility that, during the course of your employment and given the nature of the task, you are required to risk your life / health. Obviously, being an armed forces combat person is one of those, and even in that case (in most countries) there is some sort of government guarantee of continuing life-support if something bad happens to you (though many governments are extremely bad at honouring that side of the undertaking.) The price that a business is willing to pay for such services is entirely market-driven so any discussion centred on the amount of payment involved demanding a specific level of 'return' is invalid.

Look at the top money-earners in sport, world-wide, and there are more top-level earners in sports with almost no real risk to life and limb than racing drivers / riders. CEOs of large financial institutions earn obscene amounts of money by the average wage-earner's perspective. Mining magnates acquire billion-dollar fortunes by shuffling bits of paper that give them the rights to dig stuff out from underfoot of the land-owners. Arms-dealers derive fortunes from signing contracts to supply material used to destroy other people.

Frankly, the argument that any rider has been paid a large amount of money to ride and therefore 'owes' his employers anything more than to give his best performance in return for the duration of the contract smacks to me of envy and little else. If Stoner suddenly started wobbling around at the back of the field and obviously riding simply to fulfill the obligation to be atop the bike until the end of his contract, then he would deserve censure. As long as he remains true to the spirit of the contract - giving the level of performance that HRC paid him for - he is meeting all the obligations placed on him.
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Cam D »

Gar wrote:Honda has been trying to pressure Ezpeleta on the rookie rule all this year. Ezpeleta said that he was standing firm, but there seems a little waffle lately.

I hope that he stands his ground.
So many definitive statements by riders and teams that all seem to have as much substance as smoke. All depends on which way the wind blows. Casey - I'm not retiring, Yamaha & Honda - no to remploying Valentino. Wouldn't surprise me to see Motogp get tweaked with again for the purpose of pleasing riders and fans. Been done before - will be done again.
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Rusty Bucket USA »

Zaphod wrote:I notice no-one had a go at Doohan for saying that he didn't think Stoner was doing the right thing by retiring......
That's a good point; show me a quote, and I will tee off on it. ;)
I can only imagine... "What does Casey want to do after his career...? Walk? Run? He can pay people to do that for him."

Cam D wrote:Either way it's nice to hear Casey having his say. I enjoyed hearing Barros' comments once he stopped racing, same with KRJR. Really opens up your eyes to what's actually going on.
The comparison to KR Jr is apt. I've only heard a couple of interviews with him since he got out, and I would say he stayed in that "one season too long" that Stoner is trying to avoid (never mind the difference in outcome).
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Oscar
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Oscar »

Rusty Bucket USA wrote:I can only imagine... "What does Casey want to do after his career...? Walk? Run? He can pay people to do that for him."
Only people who've never owned a farm (or 'property', or on a grander scale, 'station' as we call them out here - USA calls them ranches) could ever wonder what you'd do to stop being bored.

Don't laugh, but just sitting on a tractor and ploughing transcends boring: hot or freezing, dusty or wet, flies or mosquitoes, the world rumbles slowly past and you can turn you mind from anything from the shopping list to re-analysing the Aristotelian 'good'. Or, you can sit and get bored, I guess, if you lack sentient being. You aren't turning hot laps or writing another record in a book, but you are turning the sod and if you're lucky, later on something will grow out of that. Or get eaten by locusts, washed away in a flood, burnt in a bushfire, or simply wither and die from the lack of rain. In which case you go and do it again.

There's a long-standing and possibly apocryphal story in Australia about a farmer who wins a large amount of money in a lottery, saving his struggling farm from going under. Farming pretty much on a subsistence level is what he's had to do all his life. When asked by a reporter what he's now going to do with his new-found riches, he thinks for a moment, and then replies: 'well, I guess I'll go on farming 'till the money runs out'. A farmer knows that is not a statement of having no ambition; life on the land gets into your damn DNA. That story may well not even be Australian, just about farmers anywhere.

I'll bet London to a brick that Stoner will happily return to being a farmer, with maybe a venture back into the world life-scene to show his kid(s) what that is like, later. He'll join the local RFS (Rural Fire Service, the group of 70,000 or so volunteers who help put NSW out when bushfires strike - we all do that..) and probably turn up to training in an HRC parka - and get no notice for that. And I'll also bet he 'll take an active part in training kids to ride dirt track and sponsoring a few really good ones. One thing I am sure of - he won't get bored. He may well get withdrawal symptoms and miss riding motoGp bikes like hell, but he won't get bored.
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Oscar
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Oscar »

Oh, and just to add to Stoner's interests - teaching his daughter to use the clutch properly - she seems to have already gotten the hang of throttle control, though she'll need to get properly-fitting gloves. (Soup image)

Image
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Cam D
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Cam D »

Schwantz on Stoners retirement.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/05/21/ke ... ey-stoner/
Stoner also said that he loves motorcycles and doesn’t want to lose his passion for two wheels. Schwantz identifies with that sentiment. “When I quit racing,” said Schwantz, “I didn’t even want to see a motorcycle. I spent two or three years driving cars in Australia, never once even sat on a motorcycle. Came back home, bought part of a NASCAR team, drove cars. I talked cars, played cars.
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Rossifumi »

Oscar wrote:
Flyinlow27 wrote: It's straight up disrespectful to say that a human being owes a business venture when that individual has already given so much
Frankly, the argument that any rider has been paid a large amount of money to ride and therefore 'owes' his employers anything more than to give his best performance in return for the duration of the contract smacks to me of envy and little else. If Stoner suddenly started wobbling around at the back of the field and obviously riding simply to fulfill the obligation to be atop the bike until the end of his contract, then he would deserve censure. As long as he remains true to the spirit of the contract - giving the level of performance that HRC paid him for - he is meeting all the obligations placed on him.
I completely agree that is nothing is owed beyond fulfilling the contract - but has anyone said otherwise?

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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Rusty Bucket USA »

Rusty Bucket USA wrote:
Zaphod wrote:I notice no-one had a go at Doohan for saying that he didn't think Stoner was doing the right thing by retiring......
That's a good point; show me a quote, and I will tee off on it. ;)
I can only imagine... "What does Casey want to do after his career...? Walk? Run? He can pay people to do that for him."
Oscar, this was a dig at Doohan, though I still haven't seen a quote, so I don't really know what old Mick's complaints are about Stoner's retirement... ;)
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by MPA »

Cam D wrote:Schwantz on Stoners retirement.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/05/21/ke ... ey-stoner/
Stoner also said that he loves motorcycles and doesn’t want to lose his passion for two wheels. Schwantz identifies with that sentiment. “When I quit racing,” said Schwantz, “I didn’t even want to see a motorcycle. I spent two or three years driving cars in Australia, never once even sat on a motorcycle. Came back home, bought part of a NASCAR team, drove cars. I talked cars, played cars.
#34 also had some words to say about Casey's trashing of the sport on SBP:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/May ... -34x34.htm
I guess what I don't like the most about Casey and his retirement is, that now he's taking the opportunity to bag a sport, or to ditch on a sport that has given him so much. "Yeah," Casey will say, "but I've given just as much back." Yeah, but we all do. It's something that we love. It's something that's given us an opportunity to make a really good living. But if you just don't want to do it any more, you don't have to have something to beat up on, to be able to give you a reason to walk away. If you're going to quit, just man up and quit. If you don't want to do it any more, then retire. That's your choice. But don't continue to talk trash about a racing series that is the premier two-wheel motorsport in the world, and has a long, long-standing history of great competition, great champions. Tip your hat and walk away from the sport and be graceful about it. Don't talk sh*t.

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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Rusty Bucket USA »

Before the Suzuki thread can get completely off the rails, it's probably worth bringing up the possibility (here, in this thread) that HRC may, in fact, want to draw Stoner in as a test rider.
One big advantage to a guy getting out before he doesn't want to see a bike again for 10 years, may very well be that he could do some great beta testing.
:idea:
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Cam D »

MPA wrote:
Cam D wrote:Schwantz on Stoners retirement.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/05/21/ke ... ey-stoner/
Stoner also said that he loves motorcycles and doesn’t want to lose his passion for two wheels. Schwantz identifies with that sentiment. “When I quit racing,” said Schwantz, “I didn’t even want to see a motorcycle. I spent two or three years driving cars in Australia, never once even sat on a motorcycle. Came back home, bought part of a NASCAR team, drove cars. I talked cars, played cars.
#34 also had some words to say about Casey's trashing of the sport on SBP:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/May ... -34x34.htm
I guess what I don't like the most about Casey and his retirement is, that now he's taking the opportunity to bag a sport, or to ditch on a sport that has given him so much. "Yeah," Casey will say, "but I've given just as much back." Yeah, but we all do. It's something that we love. It's something that's given us an opportunity to make a really good living. But if you just don't want to do it any more, you don't have to have something to beat up on, to be able to give you a reason to walk away. If you're going to quit, just man up and quit. If you don't want to do it any more, then retire. That's your choice. But don't continue to talk trash about a racing series that is the premier two-wheel motorsport in the world, and has a long, long-standing history of great competition, great champions. Tip your hat and walk away from the sport and be graceful about it. Don't talk sh*t.
I sort of feel that Kevin has missed the point. Casey has clearly said that this is supposed to be the pinical of motorcycle rcing and it has a glorious past, but it had been taken in a different direction and it had become more about money. Lets face it, his decision is clearly not about dollars because if Casey was money motivated, like so many people are, he would have accepted Honda's proposal. I think Casey had MototGP on a pedestal and now that he's spent some time there he found out that it doesn't measure up to his ideals. He's not bagging racing, he's bagging out the guys that have turned it into another show at Las Vegas. jmo
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by TwoStroke Institute »

If ever there was a reason to 'engage brain before mouth' Kevin typifies this everytime he feels the need to comment on Casey Stoner. He's been out of the game for quite some time, and to my knowledge has never ran a team let alone one at GP level. Should heed his own words.
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Squidpuppet »

Cam D wrote: I think Casey had MototGP on a pedestal and now that he's spent some time there he found out that it doesn't measure up to his ideals.
From his comments, I'd tend to agree with that.

The things I dont really understand are Casey's comments about MotoGP being too much a business, and too much about money and not enough about the racing.

I assume that when the Stoner family uprooted, risked everything, and made the move to Europe, it was a bet on a financial return, if Casey could make it to the top. They didnt take those risks "for the racing". IMO that was a business decision, and it paid off. When Casey's Dad sat accross the table from the HRC boys haggling over the contract, isnt that business about money?

Also somewhat surprising to me is that Casey didnt recognize that MotoGP has always been about the money as well as racing. Promoters and track owners have always been in this business to make money. Sponsor have always shelled out the coin to promote their brand and sell more product. Manufacturers have always raced in an effort to sell more bikes. Riders have always wanted to get to the top to make the big bucks. It has always been a business. I'm not sure why Casey feels like it's more about money now than it was 14 years ago.

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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Zaphod »

Rusty Bucket USA wrote:
Rusty Bucket USA wrote:
Zaphod wrote:I notice no-one had a go at Doohan for saying that he didn't think Stoner was doing the right thing by retiring......
That's a good point; show me a quote, and I will tee off on it. ;)
I can only imagine... "What does Casey want to do after his career...? Walk? Run? He can pay people to do that for him."
Oscar, this was a dig at Doohan, though I still haven't seen a quote, so I don't really know what old Mick's complaints are about Stoner's retirement... ;)

Nope...........it was a dig at people who get stuck into Schwantz. :D :lol:

He seems to be everybody's kicking post as soon as he opens his mouth. Fair call in some ways, the guy is no rocket scientist,Rhodes Scholar or diplomat. He's (sorry Kev) a knuckle-head who could ride the wheels off a piece of sh!t..........much like Stoner on a Duc.

People stick up for, and ask that there is fair interpretation of the comments made by GP riders they happen to support the most............ Kev is my GP rider of choice.

Kev is Kev.............but at least he's not a JK or Fogarty. 8-) :lol: ;)
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by WayneG »

[quote="Squidpuppet"The things I dont really understand are Casey's comments about MotoGP being too much a business, and too much about money and not enough about the racing.[/quote]

This article by Mat Oxley gives a good explanation IMO http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/ ... in-motogp/
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Re: HRC just tweeted that '12 will be Stoner's last year in

Post by Squidpuppet »

WayneG wrote: This article by Mat Oxley gives a good explanation IMO http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/race/ ... in-motogp/
Thanks for the Link wayne.

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