2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
tz250w
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by tz250w »

tom wrote:tz I must have taken the blue pills this morning instead of the red. Sorry.
No worries. :D

Cappra
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Cappra »

CIN wrote:
Stoner just commented that he had no problems with the bike and that he just was slower than the others.
In the podium interview I saw Casey said he and Pedi were having trouble getting the wet tyre up to temperature and when he got the tyre up to temp the rain stopped and the track dried enough to destroy the tyre and the rest was history. And that tallys with what I saw and the lap times.

And that tallied with the Pit Lane commentary. They reported JL tyre was used, VR was shagged and CS was bald.

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Gustav O
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2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Gustav O »

Quite simple really. Forcada with crew outperformed Gabbarini with crew just as Lotenzo outperformed Stoner.

Gar
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Gar »

As far as Spies and his crap, er, I mean HJC helmet, he said the he hit it against the bike in that godawful out of shape launch and knocked the visor out of place. Said it wasn't just fogging, water was coming in.

That said, those helmets are junk in my opinion.
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MiniNinjaMk5
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by MiniNinjaMk5 »

I remember years ago in WSB Edward's Honda SP2 was a little underweight. So, they added a little starter button on it!
So many of the guys in Moto3 are below the minimum, why not employ some kind of similar system?

Although Neil Spalding on Eurosport reckoned that it was still fairly straightforward for the 4-strokes to get going again, but they needed a different procedure to that of the 125s. Obviously they need a lot more compression to get going, and in the heat of the moment (i.e. when the adrenalyn is pumping after falling off) he reckoned that some of the riders were forgetting what bike they were on, and were still using a 2-stroke procedure.

In any case you would think they have to do something, as those photos above show it is putting both riders and marshalls at risk to have them running along the side of the track at 5mph trying to get the things going. Hopefully they will implement something now, rather than after an accident..

Tormo4ever
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Tormo4ever »

Years ago, Pedrosa had a prblem with his helmet on a wet weekend. Come race day , he switched his Nolan for a similar looking Arai with the brand duct taped, then got out of the Nolan contract asap and went Arai to this day.

By the way, it s Dani's home race next up. Time to step it up and beat the other two, no excuses. If he wants to still be considered a title contender, he needs to beat them now. It s been 4 races and he s only beaten an arm-pumped Casey.

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Squidpuppet
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Squidpuppet »

WayneG wrote:How long will this sort of thing be allowed to continue before there is a major tragedy?
Soaking wet track, on the racing line and not even looking for approaching bikes!
I was stressed as hell during that.

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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Squidpuppet »

Kropotkin wrote:
WayneG wrote:How long will this sort of thing be allowed to continue before there is a major tragedy?
The Moto3 bikes make it worse, they're a pig to bump start. Really need a kickstarter fitted to them.
Why are they so hard to bump start compared to a 600 and 1,000 multi? :?

Would a compression release help/be allowed?

TwoStroke Institute
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by TwoStroke Institute »

Oscar wrote: I really like the moto3 bikes ( I don't like 2-strokes - sorry, TSI..)
.........you like droning aero engines so that figures................................. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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tz250w
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by tz250w »

Squidpuppet wrote:
Kropotkin wrote:
WayneG wrote:How long will this sort of thing be allowed to continue before there is a major tragedy?
The Moto3 bikes make it worse, they're a pig to bump start. Really need a kickstarter fitted to them.
Why are they so hard to bump start compared to a 600 and 1,000 multi? :?

Would a compression release help/be allowed?
I don't think it's getting them to turn over that's so hard (as far as compression goes), they are "only" 250cc afterall. It's the finicky combustion characteristics they seem to have. Relatively light cranks probably compound the problem.

A compression release would help on a kickstarter, but I suppose they'd want to limit it to a starter actuated setup as opposed to a manual (lever) control. It could be used as tunable aid in reducing engine braking which is probably against the current rules.

Think they sound funny now? Imagine a gaggle of them going into a long sweeping bend bleeding out through the compression release.


I guess I'd just like to see them fit small electric starters to them. With the lightweight battery technology we have now (RC aircraft for one) there's no shortage of amps, and "longevity" isn't really an issue as they'd never make more than a handful of starts off them in a race (meaning crashes, off road excursions, stalling on the grid, etc). They can still use the starting carts in the pits and on the grid.
Last edited by tz250w on Tue May 22, 2012 5:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Oscar
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Oscar »

TwoStroke Institute wrote:
Oscar wrote: I really like the moto3 bikes ( I don't like 2-strokes - sorry, TSI..)
.........you like droning aero engines so that figures................................. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Rotax make 2-stroke aero engines (which in the User Manual state explicitly: ' Due to the design of this engine it is prone to stopping suddenly' - or almost those words, and on the carton say: Rotax Aero engine - not for use in aircraft' to avoid liability suits!!!) They are known in some circles as 'heart-stroke' engines...

Nah, strokers are all good, provided they have a string for a starter and something to keep the stones from hitting your ankles. But I can see the fascination, of trying to make the bastards run reliably - sort of like watching a programmer run a compile for the 99th time saying 'THIS time it will compile' while holding a razor to his/her throat. I do salute those who have the strength of life-purpose to keep on with the battle, it helps balance out the slackers like me who just want the thing to start when I hit the button and run till I reach the beer-o-mart. And valve gear is cute - you take off the cam cover and start 'er up and there are all these little thangs, jumping up and down like excited puppies. :D :D
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Hanuman »

Oscar wrote:
TwoStroke Institute wrote:
Oscar wrote: I really like the moto3 bikes ( I don't like 2-strokes - sorry, TSI..)
.........you like droning aero engines so that figures................................. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Rotax make 2-stroke aero engines (which in the User Manual state explicitly: ' Due to the design of this engine it is prone to stopping suddenly' - or almost those words, and on the carton say: Rotax Aero engine - not for use in aircraft' to avoid liability suits!!!) They are known in some circles as 'heart-stroke' engines...
"This engine, by its design, is subject to sudden stoppage. Engine stoppage can result in crash landings....
"This is not a certificated (sic) aircraft engine. It has not received any safety or durability testing, and conforms to no aircraft standards."
:lol:

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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Hanuman »

tz250w wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:
Why are they so hard to bump start compared to a 600 and 1,000 multi? :?

Would a compression release help/be allowed?
I don't think it's getting them to turn over that's so hard (as far as compression goes), they are "only" 250cc afterall. It's the finicky combustion characteristics they seem to have. Relatively light cranks probably compound the problem.
What tz250w wrote. Plus 720deg of crank rotations between sparks...compared to a quarter of that (depends on config) for a 4-cyl...plus no weight on the rear tyre unladen....you better get your bump timed right or all you'll do is smear the rear tyre.

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Oscar
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Oscar »

Hanuman wrote:"This engine, by its design, is subject to sudden stoppage. Engine stoppage can result in crash landings....
"This is not a certificated (sic) aircraft engine. It has not received any safety or durability testing, and conforms to no aircraft standards."
:lol:
That's the one! (Incidentally, 'certificated' is the right word - it means in this case: 'having received a certificate' - of compliance with a set standard. That's a complicated set of tests, under supervision from the certificating authority - and one I know about well, I've just spent a couple of weeks helping my brother set up a complete engine test facility to meet the requirements for certification and it makes a standard workshop dyno facility look like a couple of pallets and some sticks of wood (no, not the high-end ones, though.) And, FWIW, TSI - my brother is in the process of designing a mod. for a motor-glider conversion that uses a Rotax 582 and yes, I'll fly it. I've landed in enough farmer's paddocks in gliders to know that if the noise stops - sorry, WHEN the noise stops, as it will sometime - it just means a damn inconvenient landing, not a crash. Zaphod can tell you about outlanding Blaniks, I am pretty sure - if you know what you're doing, you can get them down and stopped in about a football-field length, if there's a gap in the trees. However, I'll stick with 4S power in my own plane when tootling over the Barrington Tops and around Casa TSI area, thanks..

Hanuman wrote:Plus 720deg of crank rotations between sparks...compared to a quarter of that (depends on config) for a 4-cyl...plus no weight on the rear tyre unladen....you better get your bump timed right or all you'll do is smear the rear tyre.


Plus which, you have more kinetic energy for the heavier bike to spin the reluctant lump. And the 600's are only 150 cc per pot.
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by TwoStroke Institute »

When in doubt , go flat out :D Your just not going hard enough, keep it up on the main jet :lol:
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Oscar
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Oscar »

TwoStroke Institute wrote:When in doubt , go flat out :D Your just not going hard enough, keep it up on the main jet :lol:
To almost quote my favourite author, Terry Pratchett: 'the two most succinct words one can hear from a pilot calculated to induce bowl-knotting trepidation with the minimum of syllables, are 'Uh Oh.' I've just never known which is the 'Uh'-stroke and which is the 'Oh'-stroke...

Oh, and as for the comforting drone of an aero engine - absolutely (or, as Nick Harris says: AB - SO - Lute - Lee) the most comforting engine noise in the whole world is that of a Gardner 6LXB muttering along happily when you're a few miles off the coast in Bass Strait in pitch-black midnight with a brisk on-shore wind abeam you and a rolling beam sea. Trust me on this. It's even nicer than the mellow bellow of Lorenzo's M-1, which could be used to lull fractious infants to sleep and get nervous hens to lay eggs. It's no wonder he's so smooth, he's listening to Paul Robeson singing 'Suwanee River' all the way around every lap.
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WayneG
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by WayneG »

If I'm more than five feet of the ground, any engine noise is comforting. :)
My first love was my motorbike, we went through everything together. Wind, rain, fences..

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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by ducati1098s »

I used to fly gliders (K8) many years ago. The only noise you ever dreaded was the loud "bang" when the winch cable broke (normally when you were at about 300 ft and the nose was near vertical). Quite a buzz though getting that nose down and then deciding whther it was a straight ahead landing or a perilous circuit round the back of the hangers and a hop over a road (look left and right for tall lorries coming!) and a hedge before landing! Damn I miss those pre-kids days

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Squidpuppet
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Squidpuppet »

Thanks for the bump start answers.

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Oscar
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Oscar »

ducati1098s wrote:I used to fly gliders (K8) many years ago. The only noise you ever dreaded was the loud "bang" when the winch cable broke (normally when you were at about 300 ft and the nose was near vertical). Quite a buzz though getting that nose down and then deciding whther it was a straight ahead landing or a perilous circuit round the back of the hangers and a hop over a road (look left and right for tall lorries coming!) and a hedge before landing! Damn I miss those pre-kids days
Well, what hey! Three of us here with gliding experience! Oh, Yesss - a cable-break at 3 - 400 feet was always fun, mashing your knuckles on the panel and waiting for positive G before easing back on the stick (for 2-stroke riders, think pulling the clutch when the thing seizes at full shriek, you do it REALLY quickly))...and I too stopped gliding when the kids arrived - for some reason they didn't take happily to sitting all day at a hot field counting rabbit droppings while waiting for Daddy to return from his 300k flight...

We now return you to your normal service, bump-starting 250s in the wet with the pack whizzing past, some of them still ON their wheels... :lol:
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Rusty Bucket USA »

The internal combustion engine was not put on wheels just to rest the horses.

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Gustav O
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Gustav O »

With regards to the Dovi bought his new brakes etc talk..
@Official_CS27
@calcrutchlow hey mate don't go thinking everything new is better, I still use the old brakes as I didn't like the new ones. No advantages

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Oscar
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Oscar »

Gustav O wrote:With regards to the Dovi bought his new brakes etc talk..
@Official_CS27
@calcrutchlow hey mate don't go thinking everything new is better, I still use the old brakes as I didn't like the new ones. No advantages
Oh dear - add Brembo to the list of people he's offended, along with Ohlins for going back to their old forks in '10 and Bridgestone for, well, practically everything lately, really... :D I wonder if HRC can get a refund? Poncheral might send him a nice pair of baby booties as thanks , though Dovi might not sign the card..
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tz250w
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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by tz250w »

Rusty Bucket USA wrote:The secret to his success:
Yeah, saw that earlier. Awesome shot. Almost makes Elias look like a street noob. ;)

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Re: 2012 Le Mans Race Topic **Spoilers**

Post by Cam D »

tz250w wrote:
Rusty Bucket USA wrote:The secret to his success:
Yeah, saw that earlier. Awesome shot. Almost makes Elias look like a street noob. ;)
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