2012 - Sepang II

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Albert on Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:56 pm

Tourn46 wrote:Is the reason for having the new things spread across 2 bikes to enable them to trouble shoot easier should one of the "new things" not be effective?

Is Hayden simply testing the bike, whereas Rossi is trying new things? Could this explain the fact Rossi is 4 tenths slower? However much I like Nicky, he's not normally as quick as Rossi... so I would be surprised if there wasn't some 'factor' behind this. Especially as Nicky is recovering from injury still.


^

Yes and Yes!

The "usual" scenario would be for Valentino to test and evaluate new parts and then for Nicky to test evaluate.
I believe I'm growing sceptical of cynicism!
User avatar
Albert
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Insanity. Right next to Mayhem & close to Bedlam!

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby boson on Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:33 pm

2 bikes with different "new" things means they are only trying 1 new thing at a time, but can test it much quicker as Vale only needs to hop off and back on in pit lane rather than watch mechanics make changes. The most logical problem solving approach, change 1 thing at a time and make steady progress.
I guess Nicky is just trying to lap quickly and provide settings data, whereas Vale is bringing back the feedback which is most strongly considered when they make new bits for the bike.
boson
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:19 pm

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Albert on Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:41 pm

Courtesy of Twitter ---------

Alex Briggs ‏ @Alex__Briggs
Day 2 on the set of "Sepang2, the rain strikes back". the rain fell at lunch, but we got 2 important tests done early. One on each bike.

Alex Briggs ‏ @Alex__Briggs
2morrow we will mary them up on one bike and see how she goes. I'm off 2 dinner now. Chat later......OVER...chhhhh...clic

Alex Briggs ‏ @Alex__Briggs
..........r..........
I believe I'm growing sceptical of cynicism!
User avatar
Albert
 
Posts: 1905
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Insanity. Right next to Mayhem & close to Bedlam!

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Upon1 on Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:59 pm

Gustav O wrote:Ben Spies
1st
“Today went well, the rain caught us out again but we got everything we needed to do done before lunch...


This confused me somewhat I have to say. From the sounds of it....yamaha brough a lot of stuff to test. How on earth did they manage to get all of that done in 2 hours?!
Upon1
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:58 am

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Gustav O on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:34 am

Upon1 wrote:
This confused me somewhat I have to say. From the sounds of it....yamaha brough a lot of stuff to test. How on earth did they manage to get all of that done in 2 hours?!

Maybe they managed to do what was scheduled to be done before lunch but not what was after? If I have understood correctly Lorenzo and Spies was testing different things on their bikes so maybe they were about to swap in the afternoon. I am just stabbing in the dark here... :mrgreen:
User avatar
Gustav O
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Sideswipe on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:51 am

Hi everyone. Long time lurker, first time poster.
This thread was taking a while to update so I thought I'd step up. I'm guessing everyone on the other side of the world is asleep, and everyone on this side is at work.

Thursday times.

Session 3 as of 11:00 - 01/03/12
Pos Rider Team Fastest lap Prev. Gap Lead. Gap Laps
1 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Team 2:00.795 - - 8
2 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Team 2:01.199 +0.404 +0.404 10
3 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing 2:01.378 +0.179 +0.583 12
4 Andrea Dovizioso Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:01.387 +0.009 +0.592 14
5 Nicky Hayden Ducati Team 2:01.609 +0.222 +0.814 12
6 Hector Barbera Pramac Racing Team 2:01.623 +0.014 +0.828 13
7 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing 2:01.697 +0.074 +0.902 15
8 Valentino Rossi Ducati Team 2:02.016 +0.319 +1.221 13
9 Stefan Bradl LCR Honda 2:02.284 +0.268 +1.489 14
10 Alvaro Bautista San Carlo Honda Gresini 2:02.668 +0.384 +1.873 13
11 Cal Crutchlow Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:02.938 +0.270 +2.143 8
12 Franco Battaini Cardion AB Motoracing 2:04.325 +1.387 +3.530 11
13 Colin Edwards NGM Mobile Forward Racing 2:05.267 +0.942 +4.472 8
14 Yonny Hern?ndez Avintia Racing 2:07.780 +2.513 +6.985 7
15 Ivan Silva Avintia Racing 2:08.167 +0.387 +7.372 7
Sideswipe
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:38 am

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby motor on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:10 am

by 12:

1 Stoner C.Repsol Honda Team 2:00.795
2 Pedrosa D.Repsol Honda Team +0.404
3 Lorenzo J.Yamaha Factory Racing +0.583
4 Dovizioso A.Monster Yamaha Tech 3 +0.592
5 Spies B.Yamaha Factory Racing +0.637
6 Rossi V.Ducati Team +0.755
7 Hayden N.Ducati Team +0.814
8 Barbera H.Pramac Racing Team +0.828
9 Bradl S.LCR Honda +1.105
10 Crutchlow C.Monster Yamaha Tech 3 +1.468
11 Bautista A.San Carlo Honda Gresini +1.873
12 Battaini F.Cardion AB Motoracing +3.368
13 Edwards C.NGM Mobile Forward Racing +4.472
14 Hern?ndez Y.Avintia Racing +6.483
15 Silva I.Avintia Racing +7.095
Once more into the fray
Into the last good fight I'll ever know
Live and die on this day
Live and die on this day
motor
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:02 am
Location: Bangalore, India

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby motor on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:26 am

birtymotogp tweets: Lorenzo down to a 2.00.877 to cut Stoner's advantage to 0.082s

That's bloody impressive as it's right at 12:30 pm. Should be interesting to see how/when Stoner responds.
Once more into the fray
Into the last good fight I'll ever know
Live and die on this day
Live and die on this day
motor
 
Posts: 561
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:02 am
Location: Bangalore, India

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Japhrodisiac on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:38 am

Cam D wrote:
Gustav O wrote:
Cam D wrote:] With hydraulics shouldn't that be automatic? I read that the brakes suffered fade and needed more lever to evercome it.

This have been on the top flight bikes for years. How would hydraulics auto adjust?

Fluid displacement... like normal hydraulic braking systems? Doesn't the fluid from the M/C res fill the area behind the caliper piston when it moves out further? It seems to on every other hydraulic brake I've seen. edit: It's normally only the seals that hold the caliper pistons in position. Unless I've totally miss understood how hydraulic brakes function. Do they have a spring return on the caliper pistons? That would account for it.

From the Brembo site...
Remote Adjusters for Radial Master Cylinders - Remote adjusters are devices to allow a rider to adjust their brake lever using their left hand, as opposed to manipulating the master cylinder directly on the right side. This allows racers to adjust their brake levers for brake fade while riding. Brembo Remote Adjusters are the perfect compliment for a Brembo Radial Master Cylinder.


The seals themselves do all the returning of the pistons, there is no spring. The seals are square in cross section, they grip the piston enough that when the brake is applied, the seal is stretched slightly, and when the brake is released there is enough elasticity to pull the piston back slightly so there is no drag on the brake pad.
Japhrodisiac
 
Posts: 1453
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 9:13 pm

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby SP_won on Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:41 am

Spies and Lorenzo both crashed.
Both back at pits and ok.
SP_won
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:51 am
Location: South Australia

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby WayneG on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:11 am

From @BenSpies11
Ooops... Had a bit too many laps on the front doing some shock testing and lost the front. Got to test the @alpinestars air bag out!
My first love was my motorbike, we went through everything together. Wind, rain, fences..
User avatar
WayneG
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:01 am
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Nucci on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:14 am

If you're wondering why times are a bit down on last time, between the dust and the rain, the track conditions haven't been as good as they were on the third day of the first test. The track is rubbering up nicely now and if we get some cloud cover later today and track temps don't get too high, we might see the times drop a bit, but I doubt we will see Casey's time from Sepang 1 beaten.

Colin and Forward Racing are working hard, let's see if they can close the gap to the prototypes some more 8-)
He who does not read history is condemned to repeat it
User avatar
Nucci
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:14 am
Location: London, UK

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby WayneG on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:15 am

That's an impressive time from Dovi!
My first love was my motorbike, we went through everything together. Wind, rain, fences..
User avatar
WayneG
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:01 am
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Sideswipe on Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:41 am

Twitter:
Matthew Birt ‏ @birtymotogp
Stoner improved to a 2.00.473 to move 0.404s clear of Lorenzo
Sideswipe
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:38 am

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby RatsMC on Thu Mar 01, 2012 8:41 am

WayneG wrote:From @BenSpies11
Ooops... Had a bit too many laps on the front doing some shock testing and lost the front. Got to test the @alpinestars air bag out!



Edwards:

"@BenSpies11 Duuude, WTH are u doing on the ground? When u get back out, can u fix the astro turf u f'd up? It's bugging me every lap ;)))"
User avatar
RatsMC
 
Posts: 5730
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Oakland

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Cam D on Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:30 am

Japhrodisiac wrote:The seals themselves do all the returning of the pistons, there is no spring. The seals are square in cross section, they grip the piston enough that when the brake is applied, the seal is stretched slightly, and when the brake is released there is enough elasticity to pull the piston back slightly so there is no drag on the brake pad.


Thanks Japh - It's a funny thing... I was a motorcycle mechanic for 27 years and have pulled hundreds of calipers apart. I stopped three years ago and fix operating instruments these days. There are so many clever people on here that I doubted myself and thought maybe they knew something I didn't? :) Sat down and went through hydraulic theory again in my head, and realised that physics hadn't changed in the last three years.
Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.
Cam D
 
Posts: 1576
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:28 pm

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby RatsMC on Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:40 am

Cam D wrote:Thanks Japh - It's a funny thing... I was a motorcycle mechanic for 27 years and have pulled hundreds of calipers apart. I stopped three years ago and fix operating instruments these days. There are so many clever people on here that I doubted myself and thought maybe they knew something I didn't? :) Sat down and went through hydraulic theory again in my head, and realised that physics hadn't changed in the last three years.



No, it really was just me having my head in my ass that lead the discussion down a screwy path.
User avatar
RatsMC
 
Posts: 5730
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Oakland

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Gustav O on Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:40 am

Cooler track now and Bautista and Barbera stepping up the pace. Ben Spies done for the day.

Stoner 2.00.473
Lorenzo 2.00.877
Pedrosa 2.01.115
Barbera 2.01.231
Bautista 2.01.275
Dovi 2.01.315
User avatar
Gustav O
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Gustav O on Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:43 am

Times from Lorenzos race simulation at the end of teh day.

Image

Some interesting quotes from Lorenzo by courtesy of Mathew Birt of MCN.

Matthew Birt ‏ @birtymotogp
Lorenzo said race simulation was v tough. New soft tyres lose grip very quickly so stopping bike not easy and rear slides a lot

Matthew Birt ‏ @birtymotogp
Lorenzo said with softer tyres and more power, 1000s going to be much more physical to race than 800s

Matthew Birt ‏ @birtymotogp
Lorenzo said race simulation showed that tyre management in race going to very crucial in new 1000cc era
User avatar
Gustav O
 
Posts: 2437
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Nachlauf on Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:01 pm

Nice time by Barbera again. Who's to blame this time? :P

edit: also Edwards only 3 seconds down on Stoner. Not bad. So we're seeing some progress there.
User avatar
Nachlauf
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:53 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Cam D on Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:58 pm

Form Jorge after his long run...
The long run was also an opportunity to try on the new distance brought by Bridgestone tires, said Lorenzo, they degrade more rapidly than those used last season.

Between that and the chattering the Japanese manufacturers are suffering, Bridgestone have done a great job with then new tyres. :lol: I wonder if they will just shorten the races to compensate for the poor tyre performance...like WSS.

From Jorge's facebook site - "Hey guys! No more test at Sepang, now back home. Good race simulation that has helped us to take data and know that this year will be hard to keep pace with the new Bridgestone... "
Last edited by Cam D on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.
Cam D
 
Posts: 1576
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:28 pm

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby Tourn46 on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:12 pm

Cam D wrote:Form Jorge after his long run...
The long run was also an opportunity to try on the new distance brought by Bridgestone tires, said Lorenzo, they degrade more rapidly than those used last season.

Between that and the chattering the Japanese manufacturers are suffering, Bridgestone have done a great job with then new tyres. :lol: I wonder if they will just shorten the races to compensate for the poor tyre performance...like WSS.


I think it's a good thing that a rider has to manage their tyre usage.

I know a lot of people hate that a battle in the past has been decided by tyres going off, etc... but I always enjoyed the aspect of riders having to balance how hard they pushed with how much rubber they needed to save.
User avatar
Tourn46
 
Posts: 3051
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 5:09 pm
Location: UK

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby WayneG on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:20 pm

This I didn't want to read.

Mathew Birt: Valentino Rossi not happy. Understeer and corner entry still a problem and seems a lot of Sepang 1 optimism has faded quickly
Quote Valentino Rossi: "I am very disappointed. And worried."
My first love was my motorbike, we went through everything together. Wind, rain, fences..
User avatar
WayneG
 
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 6:01 am
Location: Central Coast NSW Australia

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby billyj on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:27 pm

wonder how long until they ask for the 2011 tyres back
billyj
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:56 am

Re: 2012 - Sepang II

Postby ducati1098s on Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:37 pm

WayneG wrote:This I didn't want to read.

Mathew Birt: Valentino Rossi not happy. Understeer and corner entry still a problem and seems a lot of Sepang 1 optimism has faded quickly
Quote Valentino Rossi: "I am very disappointed. And worried."



I dont understand that comment as a general analysis of the bike. How can you say great things about the bike last time re improved corner entry and then say its no good now? Surely the only logical explanation is that some of the changes they've recently made to the bike need to be undone....

Sounds like its going to be the 2012 Stoner/Lorenzo show which quite frankly is not enough (for me anyway). I cant believe that I feel a greater sense of excitement in terms of spectacle about the coming F1 season than I do MotoGP
ducati1098s
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Sat May 31, 2008 6:02 pm

PreviousNext

Return to MotoGP Class

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests

cron