2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class
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Tourn46
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Tourn46 »

yzr750 wrote:You are right, Rossi's race times in relation to the winner have been considerably worse since he dumped the GP11, maybe if they had stuck with it they would have sussed out how to set it up and been a bit more competitive than they are now?
I guess that just depends if Ducati felt that they would EVER be competitive enough on what they had. Maybe the belief was that they could gain a few tenth's here and there but we're talking a big gap to the Yam's and Honda's, maybe they simply felt radical changes were required to make such a big leap.

Let us not be under any illusion, Stoner who did a fantastic job at Ducati and was the only person to "tame" it, only managed 4th in the Championship the last 2 seasons.

Cam D
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Cam D »

Tourn46 wrote:I guess that just depends if Ducati felt that they would EVER be competitive enough on what they had. Maybe the belief was that they could gain a few tenth's here and there but we're talking a big gap to the Yam's and Honda's, maybe they simply felt radical changes were required to make such a big leap.
Through the various interviews etc I never got the feeling Ducati didn't believe in the bike. I got the feeling the changes have been made as asked, but it was against their wishes so to speak.
Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.

sailor22
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by sailor22 »

Squidpuppet wrote:
Kropotkin wrote:I'm a lucky man. It's my forum. I can inflict this on you all:


:D
I must be crazy. I HATED the Las Vegas Extremes Pimptacular Chromelicious Suzuki. HATED IT!!!!

And I think the orange Hondas were gorgeous. The leathers too.

I agree - loved the creamsicle Hondas. Hope they stay with it.

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Squidpuppet »

sailor22 wrote:

I agree - loved the creamsicle Hondas. Hope they stay with it.
I thought the "Crayola" numbers were the icing on the cake. :mrgreen:

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Cam D »

Just read an interview with Valentino and he was saying he was slower down the straights than Casey was last year and they didn't understand why. I was amazed at how easily he romped past Cal on the back straight. I kind of assumed that they were using last years equipment, but the Tech 3 bikes must be pretty slow in a straight line.
Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.

rick
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by rick »

Cam D wrote:Just read an interview with Valentino and he was saying he was slower down the straights than Casey was last year and they didn't understand why. I was amazed at how easily he romped past Cal on the back straight. I kind of assumed that they were using last years equipment, but the Tech 3 bikes must be pretty slow in a straight line.
I'd think it's more a case of lack of front end grip = on the power later = slower off the corner = less revs/terminal speed at the end of the straight.

I'm still amazed how many still seem to fall into the trap of thinking that someone that is fast down a straight naturally has more grunt when nine times out of ten they have less understeer/more front end grip/better balance and are able to get on the power earlier.
the older I get, the faster I was....

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Tourn46
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Tourn46 »

rick wrote: I'd think it's more a case of lack of front end grip = on the power later = slower off the corner = less revs/terminal speed at the end of the straight.

I'm still amazed how many still seem to fall into the trap of thinking that someone that is fast down a straight naturally has more grunt when nine times out of ten they have less understeer/more front end grip/better balance and are able to get on the power earlier.
They did have a hell of a tail wind on the back straight though on Sunday.

I think this smells of more incompatibility between Ducati and Bridgestone in 2011.

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by rick »

Squidpuppet wrote:
Kropotkin wrote:I'm a lucky man. It's my forum. I can inflict this on you all:


:D
[snip]
And I think the orange Hondas were gorgeous. The leathers too.
I must be odd too, (nothing new to those that know :lol: ) as I quite liked the Honda's special paint and leathers.
the older I get, the faster I was....

rick
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by rick »

Tourn46 wrote:
rick wrote: I'd think it's more a case of lack of front end grip = on the power later = slower off the corner = less revs/terminal speed at the end of the straight.

I'm still amazed how many still seem to fall into the trap of thinking that someone that is fast down a straight naturally has more grunt when nine times out of ten they have less understeer/more front end grip/better balance and are able to get on the power earlier.
They did have a hell of a tail wind on the back straight though on Sunday.

I think this smells of more incompatibility between Ducati and Bridgestone in 2011.
I agree, and has been brought up many times I think it sounds more like a weight distribution issue.

I know nothing about bike setup but I worked on cars for a few years and the ability to move ballast around when a new spec tyre with different construction was introduced was a godsend.
the older I get, the faster I was....

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corinthian
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by corinthian »

Tourn46 wrote:I think this smells of more incompatibility between Ducati and Bridgestone in 2011.
Possibly true, but it still sounds like a cop-out. Can't blame the riders anymore? Let's blame the testing programme, or the tyres. God knows they have had time to adapt to the Bridgestones, and had already recognised and discussed the apparent incompatability in previous seasons. But this year the tyre has been the same as last season's at a number of tracks, including Aragón, and they have still not managed to improve.

Each team has struggled with the Bridgestones at some point throughout this season. Stoner had major tyre issues a few times, Lorenzo as well, esp. at Indy, Tech 3 went through a patch where it looked like they were being given different tyres from everybody else, Tony Elias... well you know... and we haven't really heard an explanation as to why it happens to some teams and not others, or more curiously some riders and not others in the same team. One week it's Spies, the next week it's Lorenzo.

At the very least in my eyes that makes it a level playing field - no team seems to be at an advantage, or at a disadvantage.

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Cam D »

rick wrote:I'm still amazed how many still seem to fall into the trap of thinking that someone that is fast down a straight naturally has more grunt when nine times out of ten they have less understeer/more front end grip/better balance and are able to get on the power earlier.
Cal seemed to be a lot better in the corners than Valentino, came out of the corner faster and then the Ducati just pissed off. I would say that was grunt.
Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.

Cam D
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Cam D »

Tourn46 wrote:
rick wrote: I'd think it's more a case of lack of front end grip = on the power later = slower off the corner = less revs/terminal speed at the end of the straight.

I'm still amazed how many still seem to fall into the trap of thinking that someone that is fast down a straight naturally has more grunt when nine times out of ten they have less understeer/more front end grip/better balance and are able to get on the power earlier.
They did have a hell of a tail wind on the back straight though on Sunday.

I think this smells of more incompatibility between Ducati and Bridgestone in 2011.
Rossi himself said he thought may have been because the bike was made for a smaller framed person.
We know that Stoner was able to ride the Ducati very well, and that he is strong at this track, as he demonstrated again today. But there are other things that we don't understand. For example, he was faster than me on the straight. Maybe that's because the Desmosedici has a riding position better adapted to smaller riders like him, as opposed to bigger ones like me."
from http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/20110 ... upati.html
Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.

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Tourn46
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Tourn46 »

Cam D wrote:Rossi himself said he thought may have been because the bike was made for a smaller framed person.
I think that's a cop-out answer from Rossi to be honest.

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Gustav O »

eddahenry wrote: maybe Dorna should ask stoner to slow down
alrova wrote: Or Stoner should be penalized and start from pit lane and have 10secs penalty. That will be fair me thinks buahahah. That kid is just amazing. Did you notice at the end he had trouble poping wheelies, maybe engine cut off or something.
My comment had nothing to do with Stoners brilliant ride. I just found the race to be very dull and boring.

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by ipso »

Richo wrote:Your predictions seem to be eerily familiar ipso. I would suggest that after the race you may be feeling quite smug. :)
I feel so ‘understood’.

(Come on Rats: hurry with the prediction results!)
Image

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Squidpuppet »

ipso wrote:
(Come on Rats: hurry with the prediction results!)
Image
You have broken into the top 20 with your creative bet. :P

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by ipso »

Squidpuppet wrote:
ipso wrote:
(Come on Rats: hurry with the prediction results!)
...
You have broken into the top 20 with your creative bet. ...
“It is better to be good than to be original.” - Ludwig Mies van der Rohe
“Jealous much?” – Heathers (1988)

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Squidpuppet »

ipso wrote:...
“It is better to be good than to be original.” - Ludwig Mies van der Rohe
Perhaps Ducati should.............. :lol:
“Jealous much?” – Heathers (1988)
Not from up here in third place with four rounds to go. Image

:D

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by cyclop »

Agree. And that we were constantly reminded that its not the same bike that Casey was riding.
Tourn46 wrote:
Cam D wrote:Rossi himself said he thought may have been because the bike was made for a smaller framed person.
I think that's a cop-out answer from Rossi to be honest.

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by ipso »

Squidpuppet wrote:...Not from up here in third place with four rounds to go. Image
:D
Ouch. Touché.

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by RedJet »

.
A little tire information from B.Speezie.
“This was not normal and I've never had a feeling like this from the rear. I'm not saying it was a Bridgestone problem, maybe it was a setting problem. I did ten fast laps in the warm-up and then in the race it made a nasty drop and it started going. I've never had a tire that looked like this one. There was a lot of rubber off the tire and the shape of the tire wasn't a normal shape. The left was worse but the right side also made a drop that it hadn't made before. I struggled on both sides of the tire and we didn't make any set-up changes from the end of qualifying to the race."
I really wish I had a picture but M. Birt twitterededed to me that they whisked the tire away with the quickness before the cameras arrived. :evil:

Source: http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/791/11094 ... amaha.aspx
.

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ipso
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by ipso »

Sounds like he may have suffered what Bradl suffered – the tire spinning on the rim - causing obtuse wear related to it vibrating (being out of sync with the rim weights.)

Probably not. He would have known that. But I’ve always been massively perplexed by the fact that F1/MotGP/etc., run such low pressure, have so much HP, and run carbon brakes, but don’t use bead-locks like dragsters.

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Squidpuppet »

ipso wrote:, and run carbon brakes.
:lol: ............ long story

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ipso
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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by ipso »

Squidpuppet wrote:
ipso wrote:, and run carbon brakes.
:lol: ............ long story
(Right. I underlined that in tribute to the 30 some page debate we all had last year on carbon vs. steel. Carbon “goes to 11” and all!) :D

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Re: 2011 R14 Aragon Race Topic ** Spoilers**

Post by Squidpuppet »

ipso wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:
ipso wrote:, and run carbon brakes.
:lol: ............ long story
(Right. I underlined that in tribute to the 30 some page debate we all had last year on carbon vs. steel. Carbon “goes to 11” and all!) :D
You devil. ;)

So why did Bradls rear spin? Unimpressive HP on the Moto2 bikes? :?

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