Aragon - off-track stuff.

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Oscar
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Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by Oscar »

In 2008, the good Dr. K produced one of his superb race reports on Laguna Seca, headed 'Crunch Time'. (http://motomatters.com/report/2008/07/2 ... _crun.html)

The story was, as we all know, Rossi vs. Stoner. Whatever opinions one may hold about both men, they are the story of motoGp in the 800's era: Othello and Iago, Julius Caesar and Brutus, Napoleon and Wellington. Even riders as fine as Lorenzo and Pedrosa will, in the light of history, be relegated to the status of contenders for the best supporting actors for reasons fairly much beyond their control - the circumstances of timing, a susceptibility to injury etc.

Aragon '11 represents, at least in prospect, another 'crunch time'.

Aragon '10 was a new circuit to everybody. Of the two, Rossi (and also Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Hayden) had actually ridden it on production bikes for familiarisation purposes, while Stoner had not, saying (and it was taken as alternatively somewhat arrogant / dismissive/ defeatist of him) that track-time not on a motoGp bike was not useful preparation.

Both Rossi and Stoner had, for different reasons, had pretty miserable years up to that point: Rossi riding (and missing races) with injuries, Stoner with a series of 3 DNF's already for the season - more than he had in the previous three season combined. All year, all the Ducatis had been falling like one-legged men in clogs at a hopscotch-on-ice competition to the point where the question was not when but where the next fall would be - in terms of which corner rather than which event.

Bizarrely, Rossi and Stoner started the weekend tied on points (130) for 4th place in the championship. Of the two, greater expectation was probably on Rossi, whose race results had been steadily improving over the past three races, while Stoner had been able to collect no better than 5th at Misano and Ducati's season seemed to be fading fast, beset by seemingly insoluable front-end problems. Out of nowhere, Stoner pulled a win with Hayden third - the year's best result for Ducati. Following Aragon, Stoner managed two more wins, one second, and two more DNF's - salvaging much of Ducati's reputation (though actually accruing three fewer points than Rossi for the rest of the season).

Fast forward to '11 and about the only constant from '10 is the never-ending story of Ducati front-end woes. Stoner is elsewhere in the championship while - bizarrely again - Rossi is on 133 points - almost exactly as for last year. The story of Ducati front-end woes has gone from merely dire to disastrous on a galactic scale.

There is no logical reason to feel that Aragon SHOULD be a 'crunch time' in the Rossi - Stoner story, but the fact remains that, in the undeclared ( perhaps it isn't really so 'undeclared', actually) 'war of reputations' happening amongst fans of the sport, even the most resigned to the situation Rossi is in must hold some hope for a reversal as dramatic as happened for Stoner last year. Ducati, of course, have played teaser with the possibility of a new frame.

Whether we believe in it or not, it's show time. What's up, Doc? - on with the show, this is it...
Road rash is nature's way of telling you you should have widened your entry

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Tourn46
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by Tourn46 »

I see absolutely zero reason why this is a crunch time for any party in the Rossi Vs Stoner saga.

The only way this race will be interesting regarding Ducati is if they do bring new parts. But even further, this would separate the little relevance to 2010 that this race has. I don't see it being any different though, I think it's pretty clear that everything is purely for 2012 now at Ducati.

Most likely the interesting part of this weekend will be the support races, but also whether or not Lorenzo can keep the championship alive, if Stoner can extinguish it or if Simoncelli can bowl someone off.

As always I'll be cheering Rossi and as usual I'll just dislike each and every rider who finishes in front of him for a couple of days as part of my big red rain cloud sulk :P

TwoStroke Institute
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by TwoStroke Institute »

Me thinks everyone will be chasing a Repsol Honda No 27.
If Jesus had ridden, he would have rode a two stroke

Cam D
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by Cam D »

One thing of interest will be how well Hayden goes, after his comments about how this track is kinder to the Ducati.
Yamaha... Japanese for "Two dog's - One steak"- Japh the wise.

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Albert
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by Albert »

TwoStroke Institute wrote:Me thinks everyone will be chasing a Repsol Honda No 27.
Wow - that's exciting news -- Jorgé has changed teams AND numbers! ;)
I believe I'm growing sceptical of cynicism!

sir_nj
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by sir_nj »

Albert wrote:
TwoStroke Institute wrote:Me thinks everyone will be chasing a Repsol Honda No 27.
Wow - that's exciting news -- Jorgé has changed teams AND numbers! ;)
even as a stoner fan I thought that was funny :lol:

getting quite exciting really and it would be really interesting to know what Stoner and Lorenzo are really thinking their chances are and how to maximise this.

As we get to the pointy end and the gap got a bit narrower last time it was interesting to see that Stoner publicy announced he thought team orders should not play a part. Wonder if HRC were listening? Would be reasonably confident that if HRC do have a little chat to the other Repsol boys that Puig at least won't be terribly quite about it.

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Zaphod
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by Zaphod »

Tourn46 wrote:I see absolutely zero reason why this is a crunch time for any party in the Rossi Vs Stoner saga.
Agree.......Two different riders......bike worked for one, not the other.......whoop-de-doo. How many times has that been the case ? More remarkable when someone switches to a different bike and does well straight away.

Stoner on the Honda ( not to detract, but at least he knew what to expect in someways, having ridden a Honda, of sorts, before), Rossi on anything before the Duck.........Lawson on pretty much anything he threw a leg over.......

sir_nj wrote: Would be reasonably confident that if HRC do have a little chat to the other Repsol boys that Puig at least won't be terribly quite about it.
Puig ( roll eyes).............if the situation were reversed I'd be pretty confident he would be screaming from the highest point for team orders.

Hope for the sake of racing that Lorenzo keeps it interesting by having a good result.
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yzr750
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by yzr750 »

Zaphod wrote:More remarkable when someone switches to a different bike and does well straight away.

Stoner on the Honda ( not to detract, but at least he knew what to expect in someways, having ridden a Honda, of sorts, before), Rossi on anything before the Duck.........Lawson on pretty much anything he threw a leg over.......
Listen to yourself, Stoner switches to a different bike and does well straight away(which you say is remarkable), and you say 'not to detract' :lol: because he's ridden one before, I bet the Duc is more similar to ride than his previous V5, 1000cc, 2 generations old satellite Honda.
Sometimes I just have to shake my head at some of these comments.

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Zaphod
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by Zaphod »

You must be one of the people who feel any attack on Stoner is an attack on yourself by the way you misread what I was saying.

I think it is more remarkable when someone can jump on a different bike and do well straight away ( that's actually praise), and the reference to the LCR was because someone, somewhere, would have jumped up and pointed out to me that he'd actually ridden a Honda before...........I was just covering that base,hence the "not to detract"...again, that's praise of what he is achieving.

So, what I was getting at is, there are more riders who could not ride something as well as another person (Majority), in comparison to riders who jump onto something new and do well straight out of the box (minority).

So, the minority would appear to have better talent in some areas, would they not ?

And credit where credit is due, Rossi has done that himself with the Yamaha.

........The Duck just doesn't work for him......or Marco, or Loris, or Nicky, or Sete, or Barbera, or.........should I go on........ ?


Hope I was clearer this time.
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yzr750
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by yzr750 »

Zaphod wrote:You must be one of the people who feel any attack on Stoner is an attack on yourself by the way you misread what I was saying.

I think it is more remarkable when someone can jump on a different bike and do well straight away ( that's actually praise), and the reference to the LCR was because someone, somewhere, would have jumped up and pointed out to me that he'd actually ridden a Honda before...........I was just covering that base,hence the "not to detract"...again, that's praise of what he is achieving.

So, what I was getting at is, there are more riders who could not ride something as well as another person (Majority), in comparison to riders who jump onto something new and do well straight out of the box (minority).

So, the minority would appear to have better talent in some areas, would they not ?

And credit where credit is due, Rossi has done that himself with the Yamaha.

........The Duck just doesn't work for him......or Marco, or Loris, or Nicky, or Sete, or Barbera, or.........should I go on........ ?


Hope I was clearer this time.
Fair enough, it's easy to misinterpret things in text. But you will find that I am no fan of Stoner or any other rider , I don't do the fan thing, I just tell it as I see it.

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Zaphod
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by Zaphod »

Amen....neither am I.

Sadly I have had to learn to switch the coverage off to avoid post race celebrations, interviews etc, and just stick to watching them when they have helmets on, so as to appreciate them just for their talent on a motorcycle, not their world views.
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TwoStroke Institute
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by TwoStroke Institute »

Albert wrote:
TwoStroke Institute wrote:Me thinks everyone will be chasing a Repsol Honda No 27.
Wow - that's exciting news -- Jorgé has changed teams AND numbers! ;)
Still a Repsol in front ;) ;)

What caused the power outage?
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corinthian
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by corinthian »

TwoStroke Institute wrote:What caused the power outage?
The lack of rain and tornadoes. Something has to go wrong every race this year. I don't even want to think about what the weather gods have got in store for PI - maybe Dani getting blown into a fairy penguin nest?

ducati1098s
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by ducati1098s »

Rossi- Stoner crunch-time?

Eeer..............no.

There will never be a "crunch-time" until they both have hung up their leathers for good and then the stats will speak for themselves. At the moment Rossi is riding a bike that everyone hates except Stoner and Stoner is riding a bike that everyone loves and wants to be on.

I was ready to be blown away by Stoner on the Honda this year, especially after Rossi made him look so good on the Duc. However I just dont think its panned out like that.

I expected Stoner to do a Rossi 2003 ie win by miles when it suited him and generally be like a cat playing with a mouse re the other riders. Nothing like Catalunya 2003 or PI has happened (although Indie was close I guess what with Ben Spies getting such a poor start). If Pedrosa had been fit then I expect the two of them would have been roughly equal on points and wins (just like it was in their 250 days)

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ipso
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by ipso »

I think it’s crunch-time for Nick Harris. Did he mention “backyard move” 3 or 4 times in FP1?, each as if it were the first.

Come on Nick! You don’t have to sabotage your performance this year in commiseration with Rossi. Is your contract secure for 2012? You may be looking for a ride, or a lawn chair along with Loris.

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ipso
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Re: Aragon - off-track stuff.

Post by ipso »

Also, with about 1 min left in FP1 Gavin and Nick were talking about the “Aragon Corkscrew”, and Gavin jokingly mentioned the “Aragon Bottle Opener” (funny) - then he mentioned "Helter Skelter".

?

Jonathan Swift? The Ruttles? (Noooo, not the guy with a swastika carved into his forehead?) Then my devious side thought surely Gavin was taking the piss out of Nick, with his blathering interruptus blind pre-agreements:
  • Gavin: “Orange pukka shell jelly corner”.
    Nick: “Yes-yes-yes, right, right, of course.” (desperately inserted and overlaid just after the word orange)
None of my friends know that the hell I’m talking about. The almighty sacred oracle of our time, Wikipedia, had it, but I missed it. Then, rather chuffed with myself, I just knew it was secret Brit rhyming slang (or maybe some James Bond weapon I missed.) But “air-raid shelter” isn't funny. WTF?, these Anglo mysteries.

Finally found it: Helter Skelter, for those wondering.


But I like the Jonathan Swift reference; talking about MotoGP riders/paddock instead:
  • Now the active young attorneys
    Briskly travel on their journeys,
    Looking big as any giants,
    On the horses of their clients;
    Like so many little Mars's,
    With their tilters at their arses,
    Brazen-hilted, lately burnish'd,
    And with harness-buckles furnish'd,
    And with whips and spurs so neat,
    And with jockey-coats complete,
    And with boots so very greasy,
    And with saddles eke so easy,
    And with bridles fine and gay,
    Bridles borrow'd for a day,
    Bridles destined far to roam,
    Ah! never, never to come home.

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