Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby speeddog on Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:27 pm

Seems straightforward enough, 4-6 month recovery, which puts him at peak condition for the start of the season.

If. If. If.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby warthog1 on Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:31 pm

Yes, and the implications for his repaired shoulder should he keep crashing may be more serious.
We may well see him have to tone down that front end pushing and the ability to save it that seperates him from the other riders
Then again he may have more strength and more control.
He may be more confident.
It will be interesting to see.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby WorldSBK on Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:45 pm

warthog1 wrote:... the ability to save it that seperates him from the other riders ...


Yes. Totally agree.

>Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Hard to tell, as young kids who are watching MM93 now will be inspired to do the same and better. In a few generations, I think saving a crash "a la Marquez" will be come standard. Then a new MM93 will come out and will make motoGP even better ;)

Is Marquez an outstanding racer ? Not a single doubt
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby warthog1 on Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:52 pm

WorldSBK wrote:
warthog1 wrote:... the ability to save it that seperates him from the other riders ...


Yes. Totally agree.

>Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Hard to tell, as young kids who are watching MM93 now will be inspired to do the same and better. In a few generations, I think saving a crash "a la Marquez" will be come standard. Then a new MM93 will come out and will make motoGP even better ;)

Is Marquez an outstanding racer ? Not a single doubt
.
Yeah he is the best rider I've seen in motogp.

Someone better will come along eventually, true.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby p4p1 on Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:41 am

warthog1 wrote:Yes, and the implications for his repaired shoulder should he keep crashing may be more serious.
We may well see him have to tone down that front end pushing and the ability to save it that seperates him from the other riders
Then again he may have more strength and more control.
He may be more confident.
It will be interesting to see.

If Honda can now run front tyres other than the hard on the new bike as has been reported I wonder if that means he won't have to push the front end as hard and won't have to be on the knifes edge so often.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby warthog1 on Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:35 am

p4p1 wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Yes, and the implications for his repaired shoulder should he keep crashing may be more serious.
We may well see him have to tone down that front end pushing and the ability to save it that seperates him from the other riders
Then again he may have more strength and more control.
He may be more confident.
It will be interesting to see.

If Honda can now run front tyres other than the hard on the new bike as has been reported I wonder if that means he won't have to push the front end as hard and won't have to be on the knifes edge so often.
Maybe. If that's the case he will have one very fast teammate to contend with.
I reckon he'll still push to seek an advantage.
To go where others can't.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby warthog1 on Mon Dec 17, 2018 11:04 am

https://motomatters.com/news/2018/12/14 ... v_ktm.html

 it is Márquez' surgery which was the most invasive. The Spaniard underwent a procedure called Latarjet surgery to stop the recurring problem of his shoulder being dislocated. The operation involved taking a piece of bone from the coracoid process (a bone spur at the front of the shoulder blade) and attaching it the glenoid, the cavity in the scapula (shoulder blade) in which the head of the humerus (the upper arm bone) sits, with the aim of preventing the shoulder from dislocating


Thanks for the in depth explanation David.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Mikesbytes on Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:43 am

This Stoner vs Marquez gives some interesting insights into Marquez's riding style. I found the comment that Marquez adapts to the ride style of the rider he is challenging interesting

https://www.cycleworld.com/casey-stoner-versus-marc-marquez-who-would-win-impossible-motogp-dream-race#page-4
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby speeddog on Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:23 am

That is a curious thing to do, I wonder what he gets from that.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby speeddog on Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:01 pm

OK, this is the statement, from Pedrosa to Manuel Pecino:

"He adapts to what each situation needs or competitor requires. If you have to ‘stick’ to [Valentino] Rossi, you camouflage yourself in Rossi mode. If he is chasing Dovizioso, he adapts to Dovizioso’s form of racing."

Was that Pedrosa speaking in Spanish and it's been translated?
If so, by whom?

Not alleging anything nefarious, IMO the super interesting aspects of that statement can get changed by translation.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby hdot on Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:56 pm

speeddog wrote:That is a curious thing to do, I wonder what he gets from that.


I think all riders adapt to whatever challenges face them. The difference is the speed and level to which Marquez is able to adapt. He prob needs 1 lap to learn his opponents' strengths and weaknesses in a race and can basically instantly develop and execute a plan to counter. Couple that with his natural speed and it becomes clear how mentally strong his main competitors are (or aren't :oops: ). I'd be completely demoralized. It feels like cheating :mrgreen:
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby speeddog on Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:25 pm

From my "illustrious" ( :D ) motocross racing days, one of the things repeatedly emphasized was:
"Do not follow your opponent, you cannot pass them if you do"

Fundamentally, if you adopt your opponent's line and rhythm, you will maintain your spot, behind them.
The few passing opportunities will only arise out of your opponent's mistakes, but if they slow while maintaining the line you'll be focused on avoiding a collision rather than passing.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby warthog1 on Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:21 am

I'm not really seeing that as a prob for MM?
If he is close enough at the end of the race he will have a crack
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby speeddog on Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:35 pm

Agreed, it doesn't seem to be slowing him down! :D
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Mikesbytes on Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:37 am

Article by Rainey on Marquez. Rainey comments about Marquez having the most crashes last year and the risk of injury

https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/140917/rainey-pressure-on-marquez-more-than-lorenzo
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby hdot on Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:13 am

On the money. Marquez is so effing fast though, all he has to do is not crash and he will take the title. Now that they can use softer tires in front I feel like he will be unstoppable. Not even a fanboy but dude never finished off the podium except for that rock em sock em ride in Argentina. And that was with his left humerus dangling from his shoulder.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby kenup283 on Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:49 am

Marquez crash numbers by year in MotoGP

2013 = 15
2014 = 11
2015 = 13
2016 = 17
2017 = 23
2018 = 27

Apart from 2014 which was not challenged as much, the only year he did not win the championship was when he crashed the least.

Just shows what we've all seen and has been said before, when he crashes the least he does it at the wrong times, when he crashes more he does it in practice not the race.

So looks like opposite.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Decker on Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:37 pm

Saarinen wrote:Who knows. Only future will tell. But while he's presently outstanding, he will still have to beat the unearthly career of Valentino Rossi which I doubt he will. Rossi, with close to 20 years in the premiere class and still very much competitive, is this far the best racer the world has seen. So, let's see in fifteen (or so) years from now.


Is this J4Rno? :D The "unearthly career" of Rossi? :lol: :lol: :lol: Marquez is going to surpass it by a country mile. He may not garner the obsessive cult following of Vale - but that's not a thing that true racing fans care about.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Tourn46 on Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:19 am

Decker wrote:
Saarinen wrote:Who knows. Only future will tell. But while he's presently outstanding, he will still have to beat the unearthly career of Valentino Rossi which I doubt he will. Rossi, with close to 20 years in the premiere class and still very much competitive, is this far the best racer the world has seen. So, let's see in fifteen (or so) years from now.


Is this J4Rno? :D The "unearthly career" of Rossi? :lol: :lol: :lol: Marquez is going to surpass it by a country mile. He may not garner the obsessive cult following of Vale - but that's not a thing that true racing fans care about.


Correct.

True fans apparently spend most their time getting their panties in a twist over people who support a specific rider than they do about the racing.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Mikesbytes on Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:35 am

I was thinking, who is currently the greatest Honda rider and the obvious comparison is Marquez vs Doohan but I'd thought I'd have a look at Mike Hailwood and blow me Mikes History is hard to compare to a person of this era, have a look at just how many different bikes he rode, sometimes in the same season, there was even an IOM race where he was entered in 4 divisions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hailwood

Missing from his Wikipedia is when he spent a couple of years in New Zealand running a boat sales business I think. He raced in 2 litre touring cars and I saw him racing a few times. Here he's in a bigger car for an endurance race, I saw this race

https://youtu.be/ZcJjMnHoIBI

Ironically after all those "dangerous" races he was killed in his car in a traffic accident. Off memory his daughter was also killed
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Fingernails on Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:34 pm

Mikesbytes wrote:Missing from his Wikipedia is when he spent a couple of years in New Zealand running a boat sales business I think. He raced in 2 litre touring cars and I saw him racing a few times. Here he's in a bigger car for an endurance race, I saw this race


Was that in NZ that you saw him racing? I saw him racing at Pukekohe a few times, but I think that was after you'd left home.
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Mikesbytes on Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:56 pm

Fingernails wrote:
Mikesbytes wrote:Missing from his Wikipedia is when he spent a couple of years in New Zealand running a boat sales business I think. He raced in 2 litre touring cars and I saw him racing a few times. Here he's in a bigger car for an endurance race, I saw this race


Was that in NZ that you saw him racing? I saw him racing at Pukekohe a few times, but I think that was after you'd left home.
Yes it was at Pukekohe where I saw him racing
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby WayneG on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:17 am

I saw him race at Bathurst and the in the Castrol 6 Hour race at Amaroo Park in the 70s. Amazing bike control.
One of the 6 world champions that I have had the pleasure to meet.
My first love was my motorbike, we went through everything together. Wind, rain, fences..
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Mikesbytes on Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:22 pm

With Rossi still 8 wins off Ago for the greatest number of wins (115 vs 122), I'm seeing perhaps 2 wins a year out of Rossi making it 4 seasons to beat Ago. Of course I've got NFI but since when has that put me off making predictions :)

Now that brings question in, will Marquez be the one to dethrone Ago on Wins;
44 MotoGP
16 Moto2
10 125cc
Making it 70. So 122 - 70 = 52 so Marquez needs 53 wins to dethrone Ago. Maquez's win record in the 6 years he's been in MotoGP is Best 13, Worst 5, Average 7.33
So seasons to take Ago's race win record are;
Best 4 seasons + 1 race win
Worse 10 seasons + 3 race wins
Average 7 seasons + 3 race wins
At 25 years old even the worse case scenario would put him ahead of Ago, assuming he doesn't have a career ending injury
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Re: Will Marquez become the greatest racer of all Time?

Postby Tourn46 on Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Mikesbytes wrote:Now that brings question in, will Marquez be the one to dethrone Ago on Wins;


Not that simple.

Like Rossi was when Lorenzo and Stoner entered the class, Marquez is the benchmark.

Rookies will be entering the class to beat Marquez, not Rossi or Lorenzo.

Give it 2-3 years and we will see the new breed, moving the game forwards. Marquez will be where Rossi is now... A bunch of guys as far as him, because he is the target.
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