Rumblings in F1.

A forum for discussion of racing involving those evil vehicles with far too many wheels: F1, A1GP, WRC, ALMS, Endurance racing, WTCC, DTM, etc etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
heng47
Posts: 899
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:29 am
Location: Kobe, Japan
Contact:

Rumblings in F1.

Post by heng47 »

I'm surprised no one has brought it up yet.

Ferarri, Red bull, Toyota and now Renault have decided to boycott the 2010 race because of unilateral rule making by the FIA regarding budget caps. It's not hard to imagine something similar happening in MotoGP in the future, in fact, it already happened last year when KTM pulled out of this year's 250 forcing a few good riders to lose their rides. Should Dorna be taking notes now? Having been forced out of a still popular class, will Aprilia and KTM eventually pull out of the 125s even, basically boycotting the whole event and moving en masse to WSBK?

Things still aren't too late with regards to Moto2 to allow others in.

User avatar
Kropotkin
Site Admin
Posts: 3160
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:44 pm
Location: Dieren, The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by Kropotkin »

There has been some talk that Aprilia will pull out of 250 racing next year, leaving the field to the four strokes, but nothing definite has been done yet. Aprilia is definitely angry with the MSMA in MotoGP, and so could well defect to World Superbikes. Especially if plans start to be made for a replacement of the 125s, which will happen eventually.

The worst thing about what is happening in F1 is that you know Ezpeleta will be watching it closely, and ignoring all the bad parts.
--
http://www.motomatters.com/ - MotoGP News, Analysis and Race Reports

User avatar
Rusty Bucket USA
Posts: 2181
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 4:11 am
Location: Philly, PA USA

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by Rusty Bucket USA »

Kropotkin wrote:The worst thing about what is happening in F1 is that you know Ezpeleta will be watching it closely, and ignoring all the bad parts.
:lol:
Tru, dat.

The question is, what does he think are the "good parts"? It should be a blank sheet!
The internal combustion engine was not put on wheels just to rest the horses.

TwoStroke Institute
Posts: 1462
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:53 pm

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by TwoStroke Institute »

I dunno about that Rusty the bits of F1 I caught this year have been very good, and if they stop aero developments the racing will just get better.I watched a bit of the GP of Turkey and other than Jenson Button's domination the racing was good.However I just adore the fact the Brawn team is largely unsponsored just canning all those big budget teams.Haven't paid this much attention to F1 since the 91 season of the debut of the Jordan B191 :D
If Jesus had ridden, he would have rode a two stroke

Alexandru
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:29 am
Location: Austin, TX and Grizzly Flat, CA

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by Alexandru »

Autoweek is reporting that the FOTA has announced plans for a breakaway championship. Is DORNA involved?

User avatar
RatsMC
Posts: 5730
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Oakland

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by RatsMC »

Alexandru wrote:Autoweek is reporting that the FOTA has announced plans for a breakaway championship. Is DORNA involved?

http://www.motogpmatters.com/news/2009/ ... ampio.html

User avatar
Rusty Bucket USA
Posts: 2181
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 4:11 am
Location: Philly, PA USA

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by Rusty Bucket USA »

Sheesh! I'll have to get home to read my AutoWeek news...

If Dorna are involved, queue up the EU's anti-trust lawyers, and I don't think it will last long, one way or the other. There are many layers to this, but the biggest problems are Max & Bernie themselves. They want the sanctioning fees to increase, but they want the budgets of the teams capped, all while making rumblings that the series needs to be specified/standardized.

TSI, like you, I am thrilled that an essentially unsponsored (come on, Mr. Branson, get back out there!) team has taken the sport to its knees, and that the only thing a genius needs to dominate the sport with "old" guys driving a Honda, is to replace the engine with one from Mercedes. And, I agree the racing has been better this year than in a long time. But, you wouldn't expect the big-spenders to leave their pants down amidst constantly changing rules, would you? If the rules are left alone, the big teams will catch up, of course. If they keep changing them, and cap the budgets, they will all quit. Sound familiar?
The internal combustion engine was not put on wheels just to rest the horses.

User avatar
RatsMC
Posts: 5730
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Oakland

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by RatsMC »

So this is starting to be a bit more than rumbling.

I just heard a report on the situation on NPR (the public radio network in the US) which can only mean that this has become something more than an obscure tiff to something viewed as significant.

From what I am seeing, there is no opportunity for compromise here. Does anyone believe that the teams and FIA might be able to reconcile? As the commentator on the radio said, there will be a winner and a loser in the fight. There is only room for one series. Without the teams who have left, F1 has nothing to draw the fans. It looks to me like FOTA has the strength in negotiations.

User avatar
lucy
Posts: 738
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:53 pm
Location: Sydney, NSW
Contact:

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by lucy »

RatsMC wrote:Does anyone believe that the teams and FIA might be able to reconcile?
I hope not. Two parallel series with a concomitant firestorm of litigation would be enormously entertaining.

The only way a reconciliation can happen is if The Flav and FOTA can triangulate on Max to seek FIA sanction for One Formula Grand Prix Racing 2010 (I've just thought of that name, it's pretty good). This would shatter the Bernie - Max power axis and force Bernie to throw his hand in and acquiesce. There is a Mosley family tradition of repeatedly defecting from one political factional interest to another so it could happen.

User avatar
Rusty Bucket USA
Posts: 2181
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 4:11 am
Location: Philly, PA USA

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by Rusty Bucket USA »

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090624/F1/906249997
and:
http://www.formula1blog.com/2009/06/24/ ... t-parties/
and:
http://www.formula1blog.com/2009/06/24/ ... formula-1/

What could be more vague than "... return spending to the early-'90's levels..."? By what measure of accounting for inflation and global economic trends? Back then, if you drove a Honda, you won, and if you drove a Ferrari, people giggled. They could go back to early-'90's CO2 emissions, too, and get back to the 1.5L turbo motors.

Only half of this fight is about cost to the teams. Max & Bernie have been holding that over the teams, but not cutting back on their side of the equation, and the circuits will not be able to pay up much longer.
The internal combustion engine was not put on wheels just to rest the horses.

User avatar
CLX
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:58 pm
Location: Bogotá

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by CLX »

Spare a thought for Massa so he can recover fully and return to racing.

-----
Everything we consider fiction is reality somewhere else. This is somewhere's fiction.

User avatar
Rusty Bucket USA
Posts: 2181
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 4:11 am
Location: Philly, PA USA

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by Rusty Bucket USA »

Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, but the real news is hitting today. Here'a a battery of information you probably already know, CLX (and anyone else...):

Massa doing as well as could be hoped:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090728/F1/907289996

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090729/F1/907299992

http://www.formula1blog.com/2009/07/29/ ... la1-massa/

Schumacher filling the seat (they say he has to get those motorcycle injuries checked out... ;) ):
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090729/F1/907299991

Bye, bye, BWM. More money for the WSBK project, I guess:
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090729/F1/907299998

And then there's this little unresolved bit about Renault being banned from the next race... :roll:

Amazing stuff, and this is supposed to be "vacation" for them?!
The internal combustion engine was not put on wheels just to rest the horses.

User avatar
CLX
Posts: 3409
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 7:58 pm
Location: Bogotá

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by CLX »

Schumacher back is like WOAH!!!

I still can't believe it.

It seems Massa will be fine, thankfully.

BMW, not surprising neither diesappointing as many say. F1 has been a mess and they better save their billions for once a sensible and intelligent governance is restored, or put it all in Le mans and other racing.

-----
Everything we consider fiction is reality somewhere else. This is somewhere's fiction.

User avatar
motomania
Posts: 1014
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:57 pm
Location: Gawd's Country - NorCal

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by motomania »

good thoughts and wishes to Mass for a full recovery. I also have been thinking of MotoGP & F1 champion John Surtees and his family after the loss of his 18 year old son Henry in a bizarre tire incident in an F2 race at Brands Hatch. Godspeed Henry, another young talent taken.
"I gave up mind reading, I found I didn't have the required equipment." - Me

TwoStroke Institute
Posts: 1462
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:53 pm

Re: Rumblings in F1.

Post by TwoStroke Institute »

Whoa The Flav resigning and Renault getting pinged for ordering Nelson Jnr to crash. :lol:
If Jesus had ridden, he would have rode a two stroke

Post Reply