Triumph Set To Become Official Moto2 Engine Supplier From 2019

The future of the Moto2 class looks secure. Reports from the UK and Austria are suggesting that Triumph has finalized a deal to supply the Moto2 class when the current deal with Honda concludes at the end of 2018. From 2019, Triumph will supply a new three-cylinder engine, probably based on the new, larger sports triple they are building for release in 2017.

There had been uncertainty over the future of the Moto2 engine supplier since the beginning of this year. Honda had extended the deal to supply CBR600RR engines until the end of the 2018 season, but as the Japanese manufacturer was stopping production of its middleweight sports bike, it was clear that a replacement would have to be found. 

There had been speculation over who might take over the role of official engine supplier. It was clear that the class would remain single supplier - any move to change the current situation would have provoked a rebellion from the teams, who are enamored of the fact that Moto2 costs less to compete in than Moto3 - but the question was who would the supplier be. The candidates were Kawasaki, with the ZX-6R, MV Agusta, and Triumph. As we wrote back in September, in a piece exclusively for MotoMatters.com subscribers, Triumph were the favorites to secure the deal.

According to both Bikesportnews.com, who were first to spot the deal, and Speedweek.com, the deal with Dorna has now been signed, and Triumph is to become the new official engine supplier for Moto2 from 2019. The engine should be ready for testing during the 2018 season, in preparation for 2019.

German-language publication Speedweek claims that the engine is to be a new 750cc triple based on the Daytona 675R engine. However, it seems more likely that the engine will be based on the new 765cc triple rumored to be presented in a new sports-oriented bike at the MCN London Motorcycle Show in February.

A larger-capacity triple would be the ideal package for a new Moto2 machine. One of the main complaints with the Honda CBR600RR engine was that it was too wide. The Triumph should be slimmer, making it more suited to be packaged in a pure racing chassis. 

Two question marks hang over the use of the Triumph engine. The first is the serious question of reliability. The Triumph Daytona 675R is still raced in several national Supersport championships (though no longer in World Supersport), and although the bike is relatively nimble and quick, it also had a reputation for engine problems. As a spec engine supplier, Triumph will have to ensure that reliability is guaranteed. Fortunately, they will also have more control over the process, being able to monitor maintenance procedures and swap out engines more often than the three-race schedule currently in use, should it be needed.

The second issue with Triumph's current 675 engine design is the location of the engine mounts. The engine mounts are located on the cylinder head, very high up. This leaves chassis designers little material to work with when trying to engineer flex into the side struts. More modern engine designs have the forward engine mounts located closer to the cylinder base, rather than the cylinder head. Whether Triumph has modified the forward engine mount will become clear when the engine is presented in February.

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Comments

Spec engine, I can grudgingly get behind. I hate it and it makes the Moto2 class almost irrelevant, but alright. I can compromise.

Another production bike engine is just too much. If it's got to be spec at least make it something exciting. I will continue not to care about Moto2 which is a great shame because it could be a great class like Moto3.

Total votes: 81

..please God, let this be true.

 

Total votes: 55

If true, this is sad news indeed and means the class will be much the same (though likely sound somewhat better).  I was hoping for a Moto3 style rule set with nice light 500 twins, or at least that KTM or Ducati would step up and offer a spec 500 twin engine package.  That would have been true to the ethos of the middleweight class but it looks like they're going to burden us with yet another overweight pig.

Still, looking on the bright side... when watching in Australia, Moto2 is usually a perfect time slot in which to have dinner between Moto3 and the big bangers.  Looks like my gastronomic needs will continue to be met.

Total votes: 91

Actually I'm pretty excited about a >150hp 150kg bike with (relatively) simple electronics. I hope it will make me look forward to the moto2 races like I did when the class first started

Total votes: 47

As an old guy, I can't quite wrap my head around 750cc Moto2 bikes. Heck, 600's seemed kinda big to replace 250's, but 750? Not that long ago a 750 was 50% larger displacement than a GP bike, and was a newcomer that warranted its own F1 or F-750 class. Still, kudos to Triumph for getting the deal. Let's hope it doesn't bleed them dry. 

Total votes: 60

Narrower engine, 150rwhp, good sound, is all good. But is it too big a jump from moto3? I look forward to a steel tube frame KTM-Triumph. And some national championships using the new Daytona engine in 3rd party chassis.

So where does this leave WSS and Supersports 600?

Total votes: 44

If Moto3 bikes are as efficient as MotoGP bikes (maybe knock off 10% for the lack of scavenging), a Moto3 bike makes about 65-70hp vs MotoGP's 250-280hp at the crank. You split the difference, Moto2 bikes should be doing at least ~155HP, and ideally more like 160-175 for a steady progression in the classes. So this is definitely a step in the right direction. 

Truthfully though I think they should clip a little power in MotoGP. I don't think the bikes would be slower, if at all (except for Ducati I guess), and it would make things easier, safer and cheaper for everyone without killing the spectacle. I don't think spectators would notice a loss of ~30-40hp, outside of trap speeds...

Total votes: 46

I’ve raced a couple of 675 and they where great little bikes, but I’m not sure you’ll get 150RWP out of even a 750 version. Not sure you’ll get the valve area needed with 12 valves not 16, unless its force fed… I was hoping that some one was going to propose a turbo or supercharged twin, coming in at 30-35kG for the power plant. Letting the moto2 bikes come back in weight to something like the 250’s of old. Frankly getting the moto2 bikes down to say 120-130kg would radically change the dynamic of the machines and the racing. Not proposing dropping the combined bike/rider weight limit, but simply bring in back to something where changes are more pronounced, have more effect and possibly help the moto2 guys get ready for motogp.

Total votes: 50

no turbos/superchargers allowed in grand prix.

a very good rule. 

Total votes: 42

Luke Stapleford & Stefan Hill GBR Triumph Daytona 675 Profile Racing are in the WSS 2017 Provisional Permanent Entry List, The Daytona has won several BSS titles with the forementioned Luke Stapleford & Australian Billy McConnel, it has also won at the Isle of Man TT, showing that Triumph has got form.

Total votes: 47

Happy to see that we will finally have a British engine win a World title again, even though it would be impossible for anything else to be in the frame. 

Happy that the noise will be pleasing to the ear. But that is it!

It had to be 500 twins or 750 triples to similar rules to Moto3 with multiple manufacturers or nothing as far as I'm concerned. 

Doomed to more years with a technically dull as dishwater production based series which should have no place at a Grand Prix.

Total votes: 57

David, you reported the engine is going to be based on the new 765 triple, does that mean the final engines will be 765s or will they be something different, ie smaller? It does seem odd that the engines are getting bigger and bigger. A 500 twin would make the most sense, double the size of the Moto3s and half of the 1000 fours in MotoGP. 

Total votes: 46

David: as always, you are my source for up-to-date GP news.

The comments show pro's and cons.  Dorna, and the public, want to see more manufacturers join the pinnacle of motorcycle racing. Let's accept the cons, but we've just had another manufacturer put R&D money into racing, the technology results of which, will trickle down to us plebs.  I think it's a win-win for the sport.

Total votes: 43

It will be a step forward.
Closer to 140 horsepower.
The reliability has been good, not quite where the oddly reliable Honda is, but just fine. One known issue on the 675 shift fork will be straightened out. The state of tune is like Superstock, and only have to last a few races.
Wait and see on the motor mounts.
There are changes that may improve Moto2 that aren't about the engine supplied as well. This strong but narrow triple with better kit will be well received. The way the power comes on is delish.
We are not going to have a 500 twin motor here any time soon. Nor does it seem a good idea to have in reality w so little power. Having so few chassis bugs me more. I enjoy the wonders of our MotoGP grid and am ready to get on with the updated spec engine formula in Moto2 for now.

Total votes: 47

... that 2 strokes didn't make a come back!  Plenty of tech out there in the 2 stroke world these days, and we know that GP racing is a fantastic test bed.  Would love to see something like a 3-400cc 2 stroke in GP trim. 

Total votes: 49

I'm looking forward to seeing how they get on, and enjoy the diversity of engine types and manufacturers in the sport.  

How much longer until an electric bike class starts showing up on the grid?

Total votes: 40

I'm going to go against the grain here but I struggle to see the relevance of the Moto3 format.  The problem with preparing riders for MotoGP comes way back at Moto3 level as much as any perceived issues with Moto2.

All the Moto3 entrants are either national champions or very close to it on something very similar before they get to Moto3, so where is the development when they step onto the world stage? Why continue with only a slightly faster version of something they are already familiar with?  And where are the high performance 250cc derivatives from Honda/KTM/Mahindra?  A porky gutless CBR300 bears absolutely no resemblance. So what is the point?

"Unlimited" 500 twins just seem like another dead street with no relevance to riders or manufacturers.  I mean, are you going to buy an expensive 500cc sports twin for road use?  And why make the class hugely expensive for no tangible benefit...unless folks see a smaller Moto2 grid as a good thing?

So I see a 750-ish triple as a step in the right direction with a nice lil' bump in grunt that helps better prepare riders for MotoGP.....or WSB (they are under the same umbrella after all).  I just wish they'd do the same for Moto3, because it doesn't seem fit for any purpose other than Honda/KTM/Red Bull branding in small bike dominated Asian markets at present.    A 40 minute advertisement it may be but it is a wasted opportunity, a baby step for all concerned, when larger steps are required to bridge the gulf to the bigger classes.   

Total votes: 49

If you want to watch production based racing there is WSBK and soon some silly naked proddy class.

GP racing is not about road bikes and road engines, the 600 Supersport class is dying both on the road and on the track, how many road going superbikes were sold last year compared to ten years ago, another dwindling interest.

This is no disrespect to those who participate in Moto2, the class is a total waste of time and irrellevant, sorry. 

 

Total votes: 53

Irrelevant is making a class of high performance 4 stroke 250cc bikes when nothing like them exists in the real world.  

Irrelevant is pneumatic valves in MotoGP, along with seamless gearboxes and carbon brakes that will NEVER reach the street.

Irrelevant is spending the GDP of a small European nation on a MotoGP bike only to be handed a shelacking by a cheap as chips proddy racer at a recent test. 

So why no objection to these?

My good lady once humoured me and watched some MotoGP.  It was a tough sell explaining why 3/4's of the field even participate with the lack of coverage they get and sub-par equipment/resources vs the might of the Yamaha/Honda quartet.  The commentator mentioned Vinales as being the next big thing and I said how it was tough to judge considering he was on the good but not quite there Suzuki.  She made the statement that what they really need to do is put everyone on the same bikes then there would be no arguments.

She had a pretty good point and I couldn't help thinking of Moto2.  For all the technological innovation (be it relevant or not) in Moto3 and MotoGP, Moto2 is the only true riders class where the results speak for themselves, and no qualifications have to made for running a 2 year old satellite bike or only having 1 vs 6 data engineers.

But bottom line: I'm yet to hear the manufacturers call for open slather in Moto2, I'm yet to hear a subscriber say they will be happy to pay more to watch it., and I'm yet to hear any other realistic financial options.  If you've another idea of how to pay for it I'm happy to listen.  

Total votes: 40

Apparently Moto2 needs more power, so why not make it a 800, like the previous MotoGP class? Or a 900 or a 1000, that would be even better. Those have even more power.

What a nonsense, the 600 engine was already too big between the Moto3 250 singles and MotoGP 1000cc fours. What Moto2 needs is less weight and less bulk, those 'horrid shrieking pregnant shopping trolleys' - as a reader here once called them so fittingly - have no place in GP racing. We need real GP bikes and real brands in Moto2, so viewers can cheer for 'their' bike and enjoy the battle between different bikes, not different frames. I know the cost argument by the teams, but I'd say a 500 twin bike is an interesting class again for motorcycle manufacturers nowadays, PR-wise. That and the modular aspect should make it a viable option, wouldn't it?

Apart from that, I love those Triumph triples, I love their feel and their sound, but when the whole field consists of that same Triumph engine, it stops to be different or interesting. It's like having your favorite food for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day. No thanks.

Total votes: 51

As I said elsewhere, 

MotoGP = ~250-280HP

Moto3 = ~60-70HP

If Moto2 is supposed to split the difference, on the low side they should be getting (60+250)/2 = 155HP and on the high side they should be getting (70+280)/2 = 175HP.... a far cry from the ~125HP Moto2 engines are putting out at the crank now.

IMO, if all that makes the sport interesting for you is what engines are in the bikes, why watch the sport at all? Just poke around a used motorcycle dealer. Personally I'd rather have a spec engine with a full grid and fun action than eye-wateringly expensive costs and a skimpy, highly unbalanced grid. Let's enjoy things for what they are and not what we want them to be... the sport hasn't been this good in a very long time.

Total votes: 59

I have never had any time for Moto2. The racing can be good yes but the whole spectacle is dimnished by the spec single manufacturer engine rule.

It takes part of the interest in watching the pros and cons of different manufacturers fighting for every gain they can muster.

 

Moto2 is little more than the old Formula 2 of the 1970s but without the added manufacturer interest.

Total votes: 49

ahmen CTK.

The "affordable" modified spec production motors of Moto2 has only failed to deliver in terms of chassis innovation and that appears to be down to reducing risk of not being competitive but I don't see anyone blaming the rules or teams for that.

Total votes: 44

Amen squared, and here...
I blame the rules and teams for the Kalex Cup.
I credit the rules and teams with bringing us Tech3, SpeedUp, and now MUCH praise/credit to beloved KTM. Watch everyone but Honda and Yamaha openly consider following suit soon starting with Ducati, Aprilia, maybe then the other two Japanese Manus. History in the sport has taken a much needed turn from Honda dictating rules, having the only big rider pipeline, having the formula that works, and basically impetuous Goliath via pocketbook neutering the competition. Brilliant!

Total votes: 45

That's a false dilemma. As MotoGP and Moto 3 demonstrate, you can have both. And to add my opinion, one should strive for both always at the top level.

Total votes: 33

Thanks 007

Very cool project! In the unveiling they don't say anything about the power plant. I suppose British Supersport 675r motor spec isn't hard to find, and it is good. Not sure about 2 things - the "cloud based" Motec based electronics is curious and odd to me but super cool for having superior support avail to small teams. The "on track" link if intended obviously brings an issue. The suspension and brakes coming from (who?) is a tad disconcerting. The Triumph 675r has GREAT Ohlins/Brembos. The weight of the Spirit is nice. Beautiful!
Again, thanks for sharing!

P.S. - Contrary to conceptual ideals and nostalgia re 500 twins et al, I REALLY appreciate the relevance of 1) the Triple engine is having an insurgence, and is amazing (Goldilocks amongst the Twin and Four). 2) If one must get thinky and conceptual, an English Manu.

We are incredibly lucky to have this be the Powerplant amongst production motors. I struggle to identify with people demonizing it within a Kalex etc as unfit for the series. Particularly juxtaposed with the devastating demise of the wonderful middleweight Supersport bikes that is happening now (no CBR600 in production?!). Go spend a track day on a stock 675r and adjust your riding style to it, feel the handling and power delivery. It is bloody amazing. It handles more like a 250GP bike than a 250GP bike. Narrow between the knees. It could use just a tad more power up top if you are scrupulous, but the torque curve is PERFECT. Now throw 13 1/2 % more displacement at it.
Bingo.
Yes, it is a single spec production engine. A BEAUTIFUL English one.
Count me grateful and excited.

Total votes: 39

I for one was hoping for a factory/no limits intermediate class to replace M2 in its current format. The ideal would have surely been a 500cc, 81mm bore, twin cylinder class open to all and 'run what you brung series'. Dorna and the GPC missed an opportunity here, so did the manufacturer's and good on Triumph for being the big winners with their great performing and petite triple. The bikes will surely be prettier and narrower than those ugly 600 fours. If they are close to 750 capacity and Dunlop develope an extra 3 yards of pace per corner, they may threaten GP lap times at various circuits. How will that sit with Dorna? Its perfectly plausible per circuit and weather/track condition on any given Sunday. In my opinion, they should have knocked it back to 'open for all', 500 twins, 32 bike grid and qualification determines entry accessability.

A half decent 500 twin will outgun a 250 single any day of the week under any circumstance. A 750 triple will likewise give a 1000 4 much to think about on the right day without electronic interference empowering the 1000cc 4 given variable surface and weather consideration.

To sum up, I think the GPC missed a trick here, maybe, deliberately in the interest of best bang for a buck. So we will listen to a semi/drone/scream of a 675/756 triple on any Sunday with same old results. That being controlled by chassis guru's who are in fact the main event technologically in M2 current.

Crikey! Another intermediate category of intermediate Sunday race day boredom that benefits no one on the couch, nor on the bike. 

Total votes: 53

The old bugbear, Jockey's and handicaps. Golf and handicaps and my old favourite Andy Capp.

If you can't cut the mustard in the game of your choice at your current mass, go play another game.  

Total votes: 47

since in my corner of the world sponsorship isn't raining from the sky AND the manufacturers are not actually that happy to make another "odd ball" engine configuration for the sake of it.

Alternatively, I'm thinking some of us are living in la la land and have yet to remove the rose coloured glasses from a time when apparently anyone could build and race a competitive GP bike in a class of their choosing.  Yeah, right.

 

 

Total votes: 49

Personally I do not quite understand the negative responses here against the format of the moto2 class in general and the switch to Triumph engines specifically

In my opinion the class provides just what we need, non-expensive, close racing, with bikes that are just fast enough to impress and with high-end chassis. I think the class is also an excellent breedingplace for talents ( I do think you can see Marc Marquez as a talent and that being in moto2 for 2 years did not harm is development). And Marc is not the only one! Also from a technical point of view I think you cannot say that the class is technically too simple for a switch to motogp. Marc brought almost his whole Moto2 service team to MotoGP and they seem quite succesful dealing with all the extra possibilities

I cannot agree to the people that seem to wish going back to the latest 250 era where only a happy few are supplied with material that can make a difference. Quite boring to see one rider dominate the series like Biaggi per example did.

I think the switch from Honda to Triumph will not change much to the format, except the Triumph will sound nice. And while bringing out a new Triumph street model (with probably much of the same engine), it will be nice to see if more racing technology is brought to the street. How many of us would love to posses a real Moto2 like bike? Probably we get closer to this opportunity then ever.

Total votes: 42

Still think a one make world championship is wrong. But don't want to see a return to the Aprilia cup either. Everyone having the same engine should produce good racing but usually doesn't...

Total votes: 45

But can you tell what's exactly wrong with the racing in Moto2, except for that the engine used is not that exotic?

In my opionion:

  • Racing is closer then it has ever been (250 era)
  • Racing is cheaper then is has ever been in gp (resulting in more entries and a lot of riders that can go for a win)
  • Ridingstyle of the quite heavy bikes is not boring at all, given the amount of sliding in corner-entry. Perfect steering bikes (250 era) will show more boring ridingstyles and less overtaking....like the 800 era motogp
  • Bikes are actually not quite the same, considering that the champion is the only one who rides with WP supension (in a mono ohlins world). I think all other classes are more "standard cups"  if it comes to technological solutions (wheels, frames and suspension)

To me the only downside of the class is that there is no bike that seem to stand out from a technical point of view. In motogp and WSBK, the different bikes become highly profiled, and have their own characteristics that are quite visible. In my opinion that is the problem of an intermediate class, which will never be able to count on deepgoing technical interest of the public.

Oh and another downside is that it is extremely difficult for local riders to get a wildcard, which is a real bummer for the sport

Total votes: 41