Misano Test Photos From David's Phone: A Close Look At KTM's Ride-Height Device, The New vs Old Honda, Yamaha's Rejected Aero

By David Emmett | Thu, 14/09/2023 - 09:18


Expectations foiled again. Yamaha brought small improvements to the test where big ones were needed


The tails of the old Honda RC213V (foreground, Repsol colors) and the new Honda RC213V (background, HRC colors). The tail section is longer, to accommodate what we presume is a mass damper. Overall, the new bike looks a few centimeters lower than the old one


Same bikes from the other side, the HRC bike in the foreground now, Repsol bike in the background. Here you can clearly see the difference in exhausts


New aero everywhere. This was the KTM RC16. Differences looked minor, but the fairing looked a little slimmer, and the "shelf" area halfway along had a different shape. This bike has a different steel frame to the race bikes.


This is why MotoGP has become so dangerous. The bike has become such a big part of the start, that everyone arrives at the corner at the same time


KTM's policy of not hiding the bikes with the fairings off pays dividends for those of us with an engine fetish. Not that you can see much of the engine.
Carbon fiber "hockey stick" channels the air from the intake to the rear of the fairing, either cooling the rider's foot or reducing the air pressure at the end of the fairing, reducing drag. Or probably both.


Stefan Bradl had a 'black bike' in his garage. However, it looked to be the conventional 2023 RC213V with some aero modifications. Could this bike have had Honda's new engine, which the MotoGP riders didn't test?


"I am a man, of constant sorrow". The 2024 Honda prototype in the foreground, Alberto Puig looks on in the background. Note the different frame with sloping upper section of the frame beam.


A closer look at KTM's new aero. Also interesting to zoom in on the rear engine mount (click on the photo for a larger version, subscribers get full sized photos!). The way the engine is mounted at the rear can change chassis stiffness. Some teams have experimented with removing the rear engine mounting bolt. Have KTM found a way to make this adjustable?


Yamaha's new chassis, which Franco Morbidelli didn't like. The frame beam is flat, rather than having an indentation at the front


KTM's ride-height device. The shock connects to the suspension link (silver, just above the cylinder marked WP). The suspension connects to the frame, and at the front to the front of the ride-height device (WP cylinder).
The WP cylinder is a hydraulic cylinder operated by a cable (visible at the bottom) which extends and contracts the rod connected to the swingarm. Ride-height devices add a considerable amount of weight and complexity, but Johann Zarco estimated they were worth maybe a second a lap in some places


Takaaki Nakagami also got to try the 2024 HRC prototype. Even though he didn't like it either, the fact that he got to try it is revolutionary for Honda. Nakagami is becoming an important part of HRC's development strategy.


The business end of the KTM RC16. TB3, we presume, means Test Bike 3. Note the rotary steering damper. And the 3500 rpm idle. The maximum noise level is tested at 5500 rpm. Red line is around 20,000 rpm.


The inside of the Honda RC213V fairings. The KTM features air being channeled everywhere inside the fairing, to increase aerodynamic efficiency. The Honda fairing is, well, just a fairing.


Yamaha's new aero package, with large sidepods and a lower duct that channels air diagonally underneath the fairing


The side view of that fairing, looking inside the duct. Wheel change tools below.

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PhotoPage
David Emmett
MotoGP
Misano, Italy
Aprilia
Honda
KTM
Yamaha
Aleix Espargaro
Fabio Quartararo
Takaaki Nakagami

Very interesting photos and comments David, thanks.

I'm gonna go off-topic tho, my apologies.

I noticed on the first picture that FQ's personal assistant (dunno if they have an official job title) is present even during the test.

I assume it's like a Vale-Uccio story where it's his best friend that travels around with him everywhere and helps him with all the 'off-track' stuff ?
You see the same with Marquez.
And Pecco's sister.

Cal used to have Dakota Mamola (Randy's son) around the last couple of years.

Are these guys/girls paid by the team or by the rider himself? Is it lucrative? :-)

Would be nice to know their names and their relation to the rider, it's something I often wonder when watching sessions.
Some background from the background one might say. (yeah, those things interest me too, not only the riders/racing)

I'm trying to think of other riders where you always see that same person hanging around but can't think of one right away.
Except for Martin and Oliveira's dads.

Any info is welcome.
Cheers

^ Hey, it isn't just me that calls Personal Assistants "The Uccio?" Love it Camber! (Agreed, smart thing to have. Calms the horse).

Another one I recently loved was someone describing Pecco as appearing that he should be a bard playing the lute on a hillside to (forget who). OMG brilliant!

Thanks for smiles. And David, v thanks for connecting with us personally in here. Great spy photo work.

KTM is coming another step fwd, yeah? Yamaha MAYBE small step. Honda? Yeah, no. And I REALLY want Marc to leave. Gresini? Sure! Customer Team, family affair. Still a David to Red Goliath. Even better is a dream of Aprilia. Not going to happen, I know, but my wish. And funny, but the KTM is the new good Honda out there (in terms of bike DNA/riding style). Perfect Marquez bike. Sheezus, Marc AND Acosta plus Binder (and A.Fernandez)? Has there ever been a stronger rider line up in history?! And this Orange trajectory is fantastic. Smart program. The hard way too, they've been "going around the outside." I'm becoming a KTM fan. 

If Marc stays, is Quartararo going to reveal talks w Gresini? At the time of his LAST Blue re-signing I was 100% for his leaving. It hasn't changed. 

"Ruck Fide Height Gizmos"

:)

G'day Motoshrink

Pleased to have you & your point of view back here again. Don't agree with you on Ducati road bikes buddy. Of

It was something about Pecco looking more like he should  be in a renaissance painting playing a lute to an Italian greyhound.

Don't remember who's comment it was. 

Quartararo has already confirmed he will be seeing out his remaining contract with Yamaha. As for 2025 Quartararo is in a good position to switch to a European factory team. Recently becoming his own manager with his new FQ20 management company.

As for Marc Marquez we will find out within the next two rounds whether he will join Gresini or Pramac for 2024. Or see out his remaining contract with Honda. If he stays he will likely join factory KTM in 2025 replacing Miller.

Regarding GasGas it's a shoot-out between Pol and Augusto Fernandez in the next few rounds to decide who parters Acosta next season. Personally I think Pol will beat Augusto even though he's rusty not fully fit from his injury. Augusto might move to World Superbikes for 2024. 

Agree with others. Riders assistants are incredibly important nowadays. They are practical and sometimes emotional support. They travel everywhere with the riders, and sometimes even live with them. They take care of all the details, making sure helmets are prepped and ready, and in the right place, making sure that drinks, food, etc is all available when riders need it. Helping and listening to them when they need it. It's a strange and interesting role.

Carbon fiber "hockey stick" channels the air from the intake to the rear of the fairing

Also looks like there's some electronics mounted inside the stick, labelled EMP something or another, to get cooling air. Can't even imagine dealing with packaging on these bikes, especially now that aero is shaping things so uniquely.

Really cool shot of the HRC dash! You have a couple Low/High pressure readings I can't parse, oil and fuel, engine and  oil temp, clutch (engagement level?), brake pressures, front/rear wheel speeds, suspension travel.... so much to keep track of! I know this isn't what the rider is staring out but it's cool what all can be output there.

I'm curious what the cable operated lever under the Yamaha's clutch is for (first picture)

also strange "footrest" halfway the brake pedal on the black Bradl bike. it's not on the HRC-Nakagami bike, allthough the bolt holes are in the brake pedal.

and on the close-look black KTM, you can (imho) clearly see the metal parts of the frame are printed.

The "footrest" is so the rider can brake when leaned over to the left. A few riders have it, including Viñales. Foot is in a very different position so they can't reach the normal footpeg. Also, anecdotally, riders all seem to have very small feet.

KTM frame is indeed printed. They use 3D printing a lot, both for rapid prototyping and for producing frames. Fast and simple (well, simple-ish).

Not sure which picture you are referring to, but the cable operated lever on the Yamaha's left clipon is the ride-height lever. Design varies a bit by manufacturer. The clutch lever is only used once, at the start, and ignored after that.

^ Mr Emmett, appreciating that you are very "on song" both here specifically with technical investigation, as well as en masse w the site and your work in the paddock. 

Chapeau! Right Mutterers? Seeing this journalism elsewhere? Brought to YOU like this?

Also been appreciating readers like WaveyD and Joshua Melanson that have been thoughtful and insightful regular contributors.

(Next track day here, Oct 1st at good old Portland Intl Raceway. Looking fwd. Anyone want to join? Jensen Beeler, you're local I hear...are you a reader? Take your Kramer out for a spin? Who else is in the Pacific NW, USA?)

v Rusty Trumpet! Hey buddy, how are things down under? Been following the Miller - Binder points haul?

Would love to be there however cyclocross season is here and I've got a race that day. Melting the Road 5's off my Tracer 900 at PIR would be a blast.

My last club race was at that track on a ZX10. Ran a 1:06.9 as I recall. Not too bad for a guy like myself back in the day. I've always had more work ethic than talent . At the time Allan Schmidt was showing everyone how to put the Pirelli's to use. Every weekend the same: Put a blasting outlap in and set another couple of burners. He'd come out of turn 9 with the rear end doing the Macarena with a bit of outside kneepuck striping action on the drag strip wall at exit (just in case you thought he was leaving a bit on the table). Then, for all of the remaining laps he'd dial it back a few tenths and take a loooong look behind him halfway down the straight. I was never sure if this was for himself or to taunt all his opponents. I know his pit board always had the info. He was untouchable in his day, Canadian guy, glad I was a witness.

Ok, how about another memory... I arrived for a club race there on a Friday. May round I think. Sometimes AMA guys would show up for some seat time, occasionally some would race. Anyway Jake Holden was there but no bike. Someone was generous enough to lend him their CBR1000RR. The bike was new(ish) basically stock. Some fresh DOT Race Dunlops. "Show me what it can do" was the jist of it. So off he goes in group A on on the pre-race track day. No official timing out there but the guy had a lap timer on the bike triggered off some part of the straight. Lap record at the time was a 1:05.5 or something. He's fast, easy to see. Bike comes back and low and behold there was a number on that timer: 1:05:4. I don't think that time was broken in anger for another year or two. This guy was talented. 3rd overall in AMA for a couple of years. Really put perspective levels of ability in my head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FnS6SRTCsM

Remember guys: Safety third - Look good, go fast, be safe. 

Joshua, hiya!

Where is home? For sure, let's do a PNW get together even if it is just watching some delish racing on tele and eating great food. I will host! Red carpet rolled out.

Jake was TALENTED. I could post some video if I go dig.

I bought his CRF450 Supermoto he had sold to the local Pirelli race tire distributor. The suspension was PERFECT. 

Sincerely, let's get together and invite folks! I have top notch audio and video here, with a bunch of good stuff to watch. A few faves on DVD, and all the rabbit hole of YouTube of course. And I am a passionate cook. If not soon, Winter break when we need it!

:)

Great! Feel free to use this (will remove in a bit for spam privacy)

(Glad we're in touch!)

2024 The Ridge Motorsport Park trackday sound interesting? Nice to look fwd to something.

:)

You and I are a 2 hr drive away - if you are ever travelling South consider keeping me in mind for a meet up. I have a guest bedroom if you'd like. Lots of racing DVD's etc in addition to the usual current stuff to be found. Portland has some GREAT restaurants. Next Summer I travel N into Canada, could stop in and meet up.

It’s been reported - and I think David has also mentioned this on one of the Paddock Pass Podcasts - that Dorna facilitated an offer to BMW of the redundant Suzuki team (no doubt at a price), as an inducement to join MotoGP. The offer was not available to any existing teams, for perhaps understandable reasons. Sad to say, the reported offer wasn’t taken up. 

BMW gets good exposure with the safety cars and if they entered the competition, for at least the first couple of years there’s a high probability that BMW won’t be competitive and may not get good media exposure. With all of the current testing restrictions, and reliance on specialised technologies, I can’t imagine any manufacturers that aren’t currently in MotoGP being genuinely interested in entering MotoGP. The significant cost and long time lag between entry and being competitive and marketable is just too long. Maybe it’s also as simple as the possibility that racing on XBox (or whatever) will becoming more popular with Generation Alpha than actual races . . .

Which was the point I was reaching for. That’s in my view - I think we probably agree on this - the only way a new manu could sensibly consider joining mid-term, that’s to say before the new regulations in 2017 which, as you know, Dorna hopes will reduce the barriers to entry. Whether existing manus will be as keen to do so is another matter entirely. Meanwhile, Dorna say they are holding two grid slots for a new manufacturer when one couldn’t by any reasonable expectation arrive until 2017. Not hard to see why KTM are unhappy about this. Frankly, if I were Dorna I’d be more worried about manus dropping out than coming in.

and I still say it'll be MV Agusta!  It's got to happen, you know it.  My trade magazine says KTM have a 51% share, someone else has it at 20% but I can't see it.  russian owner will be gone soon and back will came one of the greatest names and that is how KTM get their extra rider on the grid!  

Those damper boxes on the rear?  
I have them down as helping front end turn in and grip.  there's an axis from the rear tyre contact point up to the crown nut and as the front wheel turns under the bike, the lunch box is thrown out/up creating a lighter steering and more downward pressure on the front tyre contact patch.  

With today's aero package and if aero gets the nod to be there for a few years; it may not be needed?  

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Comments

Very interesting photos and comments David, thanks.

I'm gonna go off-topic tho, my apologies.

I noticed on the first picture that FQ's personal assistant (dunno if they have an official job title) is present even during the test.

I assume it's like a Vale-Uccio story where it's his best friend that travels around with him everywhere and helps him with all the 'off-track' stuff ?
You see the same with Marquez.
And Pecco's sister.

Cal used to have Dakota Mamola (Randy's son) around the last couple of years.

Are these guys/girls paid by the team or by the rider himself? Is it lucrative? :-)

Would be nice to know their names and their relation to the rider, it's something I often wonder when watching sessions.
Some background from the background one might say. (yeah, those things interest me too, not only the riders/racing)

I'm trying to think of other riders where you always see that same person hanging around but can't think of one right away.
Except for Martin and Oliveira's dads.

Any info is welcome.
Cheers

^ Hey, it isn't just me that calls Personal Assistants "The Uccio?" Love it Camber! (Agreed, smart thing to have. Calms the horse).

Another one I recently loved was someone describing Pecco as appearing that he should be a bard playing the lute on a hillside to (forget who). OMG brilliant!

Thanks for smiles. And David, v thanks for connecting with us personally in here. Great spy photo work.

KTM is coming another step fwd, yeah? Yamaha MAYBE small step. Honda? Yeah, no. And I REALLY want Marc to leave. Gresini? Sure! Customer Team, family affair. Still a David to Red Goliath. Even better is a dream of Aprilia. Not going to happen, I know, but my wish. And funny, but the KTM is the new good Honda out there (in terms of bike DNA/riding style). Perfect Marquez bike. Sheezus, Marc AND Acosta plus Binder (and A.Fernandez)? Has there ever been a stronger rider line up in history?! And this Orange trajectory is fantastic. Smart program. The hard way too, they've been "going around the outside." I'm becoming a KTM fan. 

If Marc stays, is Quartararo going to reveal talks w Gresini? At the time of his LAST Blue re-signing I was 100% for his leaving. It hasn't changed. 

"Ruck Fide Height Gizmos"

:)

G'day Motoshrink

Pleased to have you & your point of view back here again. Don't agree with you on Ducati road bikes buddy. Of

It was something about Pecco looking more like he should  be in a renaissance painting playing a lute to an Italian greyhound.

Don't remember who's comment it was. 

Quartararo has already confirmed he will be seeing out his remaining contract with Yamaha. As for 2025 Quartararo is in a good position to switch to a European factory team. Recently becoming his own manager with his new FQ20 management company.

As for Marc Marquez we will find out within the next two rounds whether he will join Gresini or Pramac for 2024. Or see out his remaining contract with Honda. If he stays he will likely join factory KTM in 2025 replacing Miller.

Regarding GasGas it's a shoot-out between Pol and Augusto Fernandez in the next few rounds to decide who parters Acosta next season. Personally I think Pol will beat Augusto even though he's rusty not fully fit from his injury. Augusto might move to World Superbikes for 2024. 

Agree with others. Riders assistants are incredibly important nowadays. They are practical and sometimes emotional support. They travel everywhere with the riders, and sometimes even live with them. They take care of all the details, making sure helmets are prepped and ready, and in the right place, making sure that drinks, food, etc is all available when riders need it. Helping and listening to them when they need it. It's a strange and interesting role.

Carbon fiber "hockey stick" channels the air from the intake to the rear of the fairing

Also looks like there's some electronics mounted inside the stick, labelled EMP something or another, to get cooling air. Can't even imagine dealing with packaging on these bikes, especially now that aero is shaping things so uniquely.

Really cool shot of the HRC dash! You have a couple Low/High pressure readings I can't parse, oil and fuel, engine and  oil temp, clutch (engagement level?), brake pressures, front/rear wheel speeds, suspension travel.... so much to keep track of! I know this isn't what the rider is staring out but it's cool what all can be output there.

I'm curious what the cable operated lever under the Yamaha's clutch is for (first picture)

also strange "footrest" halfway the brake pedal on the black Bradl bike. it's not on the HRC-Nakagami bike, allthough the bolt holes are in the brake pedal.

and on the close-look black KTM, you can (imho) clearly see the metal parts of the frame are printed.

The "footrest" is so the rider can brake when leaned over to the left. A few riders have it, including Viñales. Foot is in a very different position so they can't reach the normal footpeg. Also, anecdotally, riders all seem to have very small feet.

KTM frame is indeed printed. They use 3D printing a lot, both for rapid prototyping and for producing frames. Fast and simple (well, simple-ish).

Not sure which picture you are referring to, but the cable operated lever on the Yamaha's left clipon is the ride-height lever. Design varies a bit by manufacturer. The clutch lever is only used once, at the start, and ignored after that.

^ Mr Emmett, appreciating that you are very "on song" both here specifically with technical investigation, as well as en masse w the site and your work in the paddock. 

Chapeau! Right Mutterers? Seeing this journalism elsewhere? Brought to YOU like this?

Also been appreciating readers like WaveyD and Joshua Melanson that have been thoughtful and insightful regular contributors.

(Next track day here, Oct 1st at good old Portland Intl Raceway. Looking fwd. Anyone want to join? Jensen Beeler, you're local I hear...are you a reader? Take your Kramer out for a spin? Who else is in the Pacific NW, USA?)

v Rusty Trumpet! Hey buddy, how are things down under? Been following the Miller - Binder points haul?

Would love to be there however cyclocross season is here and I've got a race that day. Melting the Road 5's off my Tracer 900 at PIR would be a blast.

My last club race was at that track on a ZX10. Ran a 1:06.9 as I recall. Not too bad for a guy like myself back in the day. I've always had more work ethic than talent . At the time Allan Schmidt was showing everyone how to put the Pirelli's to use. Every weekend the same: Put a blasting outlap in and set another couple of burners. He'd come out of turn 9 with the rear end doing the Macarena with a bit of outside kneepuck striping action on the drag strip wall at exit (just in case you thought he was leaving a bit on the table). Then, for all of the remaining laps he'd dial it back a few tenths and take a loooong look behind him halfway down the straight. I was never sure if this was for himself or to taunt all his opponents. I know his pit board always had the info. He was untouchable in his day, Canadian guy, glad I was a witness.

Ok, how about another memory... I arrived for a club race there on a Friday. May round I think. Sometimes AMA guys would show up for some seat time, occasionally some would race. Anyway Jake Holden was there but no bike. Someone was generous enough to lend him their CBR1000RR. The bike was new(ish) basically stock. Some fresh DOT Race Dunlops. "Show me what it can do" was the jist of it. So off he goes in group A on on the pre-race track day. No official timing out there but the guy had a lap timer on the bike triggered off some part of the straight. Lap record at the time was a 1:05.5 or something. He's fast, easy to see. Bike comes back and low and behold there was a number on that timer: 1:05:4. I don't think that time was broken in anger for another year or two. This guy was talented. 3rd overall in AMA for a couple of years. Really put perspective levels of ability in my head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FnS6SRTCsM

Remember guys: Safety third - Look good, go fast, be safe. 

Joshua, hiya!

Where is home? For sure, let's do a PNW get together even if it is just watching some delish racing on tele and eating great food. I will host! Red carpet rolled out.

Jake was TALENTED. I could post some video if I go dig.

I bought his CRF450 Supermoto he had sold to the local Pirelli race tire distributor. The suspension was PERFECT. 

Sincerely, let's get together and invite folks! I have top notch audio and video here, with a bunch of good stuff to watch. A few faves on DVD, and all the rabbit hole of YouTube of course. And I am a passionate cook. If not soon, Winter break when we need it!

:)

Great! Feel free to use this (will remove in a bit for spam privacy)

(Glad we're in touch!)

2024 The Ridge Motorsport Park trackday sound interesting? Nice to look fwd to something.

:)

You and I are a 2 hr drive away - if you are ever travelling South consider keeping me in mind for a meet up. I have a guest bedroom if you'd like. Lots of racing DVD's etc in addition to the usual current stuff to be found. Portland has some GREAT restaurants. Next Summer I travel N into Canada, could stop in and meet up.

It’s been reported - and I think David has also mentioned this on one of the Paddock Pass Podcasts - that Dorna facilitated an offer to BMW of the redundant Suzuki team (no doubt at a price), as an inducement to join MotoGP. The offer was not available to any existing teams, for perhaps understandable reasons. Sad to say, the reported offer wasn’t taken up. 

BMW gets good exposure with the safety cars and if they entered the competition, for at least the first couple of years there’s a high probability that BMW won’t be competitive and may not get good media exposure. With all of the current testing restrictions, and reliance on specialised technologies, I can’t imagine any manufacturers that aren’t currently in MotoGP being genuinely interested in entering MotoGP. The significant cost and long time lag between entry and being competitive and marketable is just too long. Maybe it’s also as simple as the possibility that racing on XBox (or whatever) will becoming more popular with Generation Alpha than actual races . . .

Which was the point I was reaching for. That’s in my view - I think we probably agree on this - the only way a new manu could sensibly consider joining mid-term, that’s to say before the new regulations in 2017 which, as you know, Dorna hopes will reduce the barriers to entry. Whether existing manus will be as keen to do so is another matter entirely. Meanwhile, Dorna say they are holding two grid slots for a new manufacturer when one couldn’t by any reasonable expectation arrive until 2017. Not hard to see why KTM are unhappy about this. Frankly, if I were Dorna I’d be more worried about manus dropping out than coming in.

and I still say it'll be MV Agusta!  It's got to happen, you know it.  My trade magazine says KTM have a 51% share, someone else has it at 20% but I can't see it.  russian owner will be gone soon and back will came one of the greatest names and that is how KTM get their extra rider on the grid!  

Those damper boxes on the rear?  
I have them down as helping front end turn in and grip.  there's an axis from the rear tyre contact point up to the crown nut and as the front wheel turns under the bike, the lunch box is thrown out/up creating a lighter steering and more downward pressure on the front tyre contact patch.  

With today's aero package and if aero gets the nod to be there for a few years; it may not be needed?