The FIM Stewards have been forced to revise the penalty they imposed on Marc Marquez, for hitting Miguel Oliveira on the third lap of the Portuguese Grand Prix on Sunday. Initially, the Stewards Notification was worded such that the Double Long Lap Penalty would have to be served at the Grand Prix of Argentina, due to take place at Termas de Rio Hondo this Sunday.
However, Marc Marquez broke his thumb in the crash, fracturing the first metacarpal in his right hand. The Spaniard has since had surgery, but has decided to skip the next round in Argentina.
By a strict reading of the Stewards Notification, Marquez would only have to serve the penalty at Argentina. But after the controversy that produced, and debates over the correct application of penalties, the Stewards have issued a second Notification, clarifying that Marquez will have to serve the penalty during the Sunday race in Argentina, or the next Sunday grand prix he races at.
Almost all previous penalties were worded with direct reference to the actual event in which a penalty will have to be served. We will see if the new Notification letters continue to contain the proviso that a penalty will be served at the next round in which a rider participates.
The FIM Stewards Notification is below:
GRANDE PRÉMIO TISSOT DE PORTUGAL
AUTÓDROMO INTERNATIONAL DO ALGARVE · 24-25-26 March 2023
FIM MotoGP™ Stewards Panel
APPLICATION OF THE SANCTION IMPOSED ON MARC MARQUEZ, RIDER #93, BY THE FIM STEWARDS PANEL
As per Article 3.5.5 of the FIM Grand Prix World Championship Regulations, the decision taken by the FIM MotoGP™ Stewards Panel on 26 March 2023 at 15:13 following a hearing in the presence of Marc Marquez, Rider #93, is as follows:
On 26 March 2023, at 14:06:02, during the MotoGP™ Race of the GRANDE PRÉMIO TISSOT DE PORTUGAL at Turn 3, the Rider #93 was observed as being overly aggressive and causing a crash involving Rider #88.
This contravenes the specific instructions given to MotoGP™ competitors and teams, disrupting the session, and is considered irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors. It is therefore an infringement of Article 1.21.2 of the FIM Grand Prix World Championship Regulations.
For the above reasons, the FIM MotoGP™ Stewards Panel has imposed a Double Long Lap Penalty for the GRAN PREMIO MICHELIN® DE LA REPÚBLICA ARGENTINA MotoGP™ Race, in accordance with articles 3.2.1 and 18.104.22.168.
Application of the sanction
Following the decision of the FIM MotoGP™ Stewards Panel taken on 26/03/2023 at 15:13, the FIM MotoGP™ Stewards Panel hereby clarifies its decision as regards applicability. Considering the injury and non-participation of Marc Marquez, Rider #93, at the GRAN PREMIO MICHELIN® DE LA REPÚBLICA ARGENTINA, and with a view to comply with the intention underlying the decision taken by the FIM MotoGP™ Stewards Panel, the Double Long Lap Penalty shall be served by the Rider at the next MotoGP™ Race in which he will be able to participate.
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Marc IS getting special…
Marc IS getting special treatment…
The only consistency from FIM race stewards is the inconsistency.
In which laps he has to serve the LLPs? Can he do it the last two laps? Is there any guidance on that ?
In reply to LLP by pvez
When a rider has a known LLP or (double) LLP which was given before the race, Race Direction typically shows (on the Rider's dashboard) the penalty some time on the 2nd lap of the race.
But the penalty (or penalties) would need to be served within 3 laps of been intially shown to the rider.
Failure to comply, the Rider will be black flagged.
In reply to LLP by pvez
I believe they can't be…
I believe they can't be taken in the first 2 laps and must be taken within the next 5 laps but tbh I'm not as sure on that as I'd like.
In general, a penalty must be taken within 5 laps of it being communicated to the rider & team or they get black flagged.
So if Marc can travel to…
So if Marc can travel to Argentina and pass the medical he can cruise around serve his long laps and then retire.
If they refuse to let Marc attempt the medical or refuse to let him race despite passing the medical then it is special treatment for Marc. If they stopped him racing despite passing the medical because 'it would be best for his thumb' then Enea and Oli had best pay attention.
I guess in these circumstances a one race ban is a lesser penalty than a double long lap. At least with a one race ban you are allowed to miss a round (it's sort of the objective of a race ban) but not a double long lap.
Does this only apply if the injury is sustained in the incident or any injury ? Any penalty ? A rider receives a one race ban or a double long lap, on Tuesday jumps off a motocross, breaks a thumb, can't race the next weekend because of that injury and must still miss another race when they are fit again ? Madness. I've stuck up for the stewards over the years, dammed if they do and dammed if they don't often enough but this is just complete bird s*** from a great height above the clouds. Despite their initiatives, here they are actively encouraging riders to hide/minimise injuries.
I am starting to think that they have done this to carry the story as long as it can go.
In reply to So if Marc can travel to… by WaveyD1974
Race bans are rare but when…
Race bans are rare but when they have happened they are for the next race the rider would participate in.
Race direction and the FIM aren't quite as stupid as you think they are. (pretty close though)
In reply to Race bans are rare but when… by Irongut
Not sure that's true. I…
Not sure that's true. I cannot remember one when a rider's fitness was used as the start point for serving a suspension. As I say....rider gets hurt on a cross bike Tuesday before the race...can't serve a race suspension ? A rider with a double long lap and an injured hand takes the sensible decision to stay at home. No no no. Now if at all possible with the injury they must ride just to serve the penalty. So much for learning the lessons of 2020.
If they wanted to do an Deniz and throw the book at Marc then fine. One or two race ban like Deniz and let it be known that the big stick is ready for any repeat of the weekend 'jungle' madness....they didn't do that, they handed him a double long lap for Argentina. I think the reason it has never been carried over beyond the next race is because if a rider misses the next event completely, for whatever reason, the damage done to their champioship is as bad if not worse than a double long lap. So what they have done is increased the penalty a long time after the event.
In reply to So if Marc can travel to… by WaveyD1974
Problems where there are none
I can't help thinking you are looking for problems here. What concern is it of Race Direction if a rider hurts themselves in training? The directive has been given "penalty at the next race you participate in", if the rider chooses to train with the possibility of hurting themselves and exacerbating the situation then that is on their head, it is not up to RD to go "Oh, you poor thing, you've hurt yourself, we'll waive the penalty".
I don't see the "madness". The flip side to your argument is that a feigned injury would not only make the DLL penalty null and void, but also save the team time and money attending a flyaway round somewhere like, oh I don't know, Argentina for example. Basically the rider and team benefit from not attending.
So I'm with Race Direction on this one. If you do the crime you do the time, and any delaying is just time on bail delaying the inevitable. You/they can look at it as a system to be gamed or they can suck it up, I know which will have the better long term result.
Sure, every single rider/human has the odd brain fart or makes a simple split second error, every single one of them, but MM has been digging this hole since the 2011 Australian GP, when he smashed into Ratthapark Wilairott (after the flag in FP1, fer chrissakes), but unlike most riders (Lorenzo for example) who modify their behavior MM has never ever stopped digging. On his head be it
In reply to Problems where there are none by Seven4nineR
What is the purpose of a…
What is the purpose of a double long lap penalty ? A rider wouldn't fake an injury in order to miss a double long lap. No penalty for the Sprint race and still a chance of points on the Sunday. Missing a weekend means zero points guaranteed.
To me it's...to begin with I could win max 100, I'm then penalised to a max of 50, I settle for zero but somehow that is dodging the penalty.
In this case I guess Marc's injury is enough to exclude riding or passing medical because otherwise he'd be riding this weekend even if only to serve the DLL when his thumb would be better off on a TV remote. Anyway, just my opinion, next race weekend starts tomorow.
There's always room for…
There's always room for interpretation in rules (that's why there's so much effort to "push the envelope" with them), but time after time, it seems that Race Direction and the FIM Stewards default to the most lenient position possible when it comes to Lord Marquez.
Eat allegedly illegal meat in your free time, affecting no one but yourself? That's a 4-year ban from motorcycle racing, Mr. Iannone. Ride recklessly, use other riders as a rolling berm, breaking both machines AND men, and send multiple people to the hospital and causing THEM to miss future races? That's a long lap penalty, Your Excellency.
Time after time, Marquez gets a slap on the wrist for doing things that are a direct danger to the people around him. Rossi was right after Argentina 2018 - Marc Marquez is dangerous on track, and not good for the sport. And with the Honda being as bad as it is and Marc's resultant desperation, he's going to be a continued threat to the safety of everyone around him. For the rest of this race season, I'm going to be holding my breath any time Marc gets near another rider, because you just don't know what's going on under that helmet. He'll over-ride that machine, no matter what it takes, and damn the consequences to anyone else.
In reply to There's always room for… by Buddykitchen
The penalty given was the…
The penalty given was the penalty stated in the briefing for the offence. Go figure. How's Enea's weekend looking ? Myself I think all judgements should be flexible. People will cry but the penalties will at least potentially fit the crime. What I do not agree with is altering sanctions after.
He should also be forced to…
He should also be forced to wear a funny hat while at the track.
In reply to He should also be forced to… by Truenorth
He'll do that anyway when he's in Texas.
Completely silly. The…
Completely silly. The penalty was self imposed as a result of the incident and was harsher than that imposed by race direction. Change the language now? Moral hazard. Less penalties from race direction/stewards are better than more. Consistency from race direction/stewards is better than inconstancy. Finality of rulings from race direction/ stewards is better than rewrites.
This incident and the rider leads some to want more punishment, and perhaps that's fair, but rewriting judgements unilaterally is never good. They had plenty of time to write the ruling and have extra eyes look at it. Erodes confidence.
Penalties based on consequences?
Time-based penalties (e.g., long lap, back of grid, or pit lane start) for dangerous riding; race suspension(s) for dangerous riding resulting in injury to another rider? In the case of injury to another rider, the offending rider is suspended until the injured rider returns to racing?
In reply to Penalties based on consequences? by Merlin
Interesting idea, that one.
In reply to Penalties based on consequences? by Merlin
"In the case of injury to…
"In the case of injury to another rider, the offending rider is suspended until the injured rider returns to racing?"
Errr.... some issues here.
If the injured rider is out for the season, or ends his career?
If the injured rider is a stablemate of someone in the championship hunt with the aggressor and 'extends' his injury? (admittedly unlikely with these guys)
Probably lots of other unintended scenarios come to light.
In terms of all this penalty malarkey, from my perspective they already had the penalty points system that was progressive and worked a lot better than the present system. It was scrapped because of Sepang 2015 and its repurcussions (ie it inconvenienced Rossi who IMHO should have been black flagged in the first place).
In reply to "In the case of injury to… by breganzane
Maybe some here can remember…
Maybe some here can remember why the penalty point was implemented.
Looks like where talking about the same guy who moved on from mowing over Moto2 opponents to the point of a whole system had to be implemented to remedy that issue.
He is a genius on a bike, no doubt about it, but obviously it does not always goes well.
In reply to Maybe some here can remember… by le racer
Marc had the penalty point…
Marc had the penalty point system introduced as a way of making Rossi lose the 2015 Championship to the Spanish MotoGP Mafioso.
In reply to Marc had the penalty point… by D999
Can't beat him at chess…
Can't beat him at chess either
Lateral Thinking There
I think that the injured victim would likely be in full agreement with that suggestion. I may be wrong but I think the Stewards imposed the original LLP before Marc announced his withdrawal from Argentina. If so, a revision of the penalty is appropriate and future penalties issued to any rider should use the same wording.
In reply to Lateral Thinking There by Rusty Trumpet
If that's the logic then…
If that's the logic then riders must hide and ride with injuries...lessons learnt from 2020
But the penalty would still…
But the penalty would still apply when the rider returns.
In reply to But the penalty would still… by Rusty Trumpet
So now a rider cannot make…
So now a rider cannot make the choice to sit out the race, serve the penalty from home, forfeiting any possibility of points in order to aid in the healing of an injury. They must, if at all possible, ride in the race and ride through the long lap twice. If riding through the long lap prevented the rider from scoring any points then the net result is the same. Is it a long lap, carrying a lap time / race position penalty or a long lap of shame ?
In reply to So now a rider cannot make… by WaveyD1974
Both on Twitter and here…
Both on Twitter and here Dave kept saying Marc was not getting any special treatment with initial penalty and it same for 30-40 riders who last season received penalties. Of course now the penalty has been amended so we know Marc is receiving special treatment.
Can’t wait for any of the MotoGP journalists to actually start asking some hard questions in regards to the stewards and their complete lack of transparency, however I doubt that will ever happened.
What will a future race suspension be?
I assume that it will only be for the 'real race' on Sunday and not the whole weekend. If so, the suspended rider will be highly motivated to win the sprint and salvage points. This could be another devil in disguise.
I'm not here to debate what is a satifactory penalty or not, having said that I do believe it is fundamentally wrong to escalate the penalty after it has been issued and made public. This sets a bad precedent.
Also as an ex-VR46 fanboy, I do recall that on his day he was pretty good at shoving other riders out of the way and even off the track. He to was gifted a different set of rules and his nice guy media persona basically made him Mr Tefflon.
never been a fan of MM, his shenanigans over the years in all classes displayed a psychopath
Was happy to see him give it to 46 along with Casey and Jorge, and there is no questioning his GOATness,but the guy doesnt give a shit
After his injury and rehab I was hoping for the greatest of all comebacks
Back to default Im afraid
MM will not be the only…
MM will not be the only rider to do this, this year. He broke his thumb, he didn't want this to happen...at all. It will be interesting to see the *rage against other riders later this year when happens.
In reply to MM will not be the only… by Wolftrap
Over time a good few saintly…
Over time a good few saintly riders will struggle to keep their halos. I thought Bez got it about right.