MOTO 3

Debate and discussion about the feeder classes of MotoGP, including the fabulous 250s, the thrilling 125s, and the madness that is the Red Bull Rookies

Re: MOTO 3

Postby JanBros on Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:29 am

oldboyonrgv wrote:to re-cap
Rev Limit (none exists today)
control ECU (none exists today)
restriction on bore (none exists today)
min weight limit (none exists today)


not in the rule-books, but 2-strokes ARE limited

- rev limit : they can't rev as high as 4-strokes, they are limited because off their basic priciples. the higher you rev, the more ignition-advance you have to give. but compression-time is only about halve compared to a 4T, meaning their just isn't enough time to compress the mixture even if the rest off the engine is fysically capable off revving higher.

- ECU : you mean the little black box that control's the ignition on those little strokers (no fuel injection/tractioncontrol) ? not much you can do with that .

- bore restriction : there ain't overly-square 2-strokes, again because off their basic priciples. 2-strokes work best with a close to square bore/stroke ratio

- min weight : as pointed out above : they have a combined racer/bike weight limit.

;)
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby oldboyonrgv on Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:09 am

Thanks for the theory lesson on two stroke limitations, the point was that to get the 250 4t to produce more power you would need to rev it higher than 14k.
You really believe that the two stroke ignition boxes are that simple....... :roll:
Bore restriction would have the same effect on a 2t although for different reason
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby JanBros on Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:43 am

oldboyonrgv wrote:You really believe that the two stroke ignition boxes are that simple....... :roll:


if you compare them to a 4T box, yes I believe that ;)
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Re: MOTO 3 Anyone out there ?

Postby dave pearce on Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:47 am

Now that an NSF (Well sort of) has put down a baseline, anyone got any thoughts? This has the potential to be a VERY
interesting 2012 and nobody but nobody really knows what's going to happen.

Just my view in December 2011
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Re: MOTO 3 Anyone out there ?

Postby yzr750 on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:16 am

dave pearce wrote:Now that an NSF (Well sort of) has put down a baseline, anyone got any thoughts? This has the potential to be a VERY
interesting 2012 and nobody but nobody really knows what's going to happen.

Just my view in December 2011

Dave, when you say put down a baseline, are there any power figures available for the NSF?
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby RatsMC on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:32 am

I'm not sure that we'll have solid numbers for a while but I'm fairly certain that HRC will put together the baseline for the class. I'm also fairly certain that it will be surpassed at least by KTM initially and perhaps others (probably not for long though).

As Mr. Pearce says, "nobody but nobody really knows what's going to happen". Should be interesting.

Of course, I'm far removed from first-hand info so my opinions are just conjecture at this point.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby dave pearce on Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:50 pm

No one knows for sure what anyone else is doing. So rats mc your opinion is as valid as the next mans.
even the so called technical guru's who inhabit the media have nothing to cut,n,paste.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby TwoStroke Institute on Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:16 pm

JanBros wrote:
oldboyonrgv wrote:to re-cap
Rev Limit (none exists today)
control ECU (none exists today)
restriction on bore (none exists today)
min weight limit (none exists today)


not in the rule-books, but 2-strokes ARE limited

- rev limit : they can't rev as high as 4-strokes, they are limited because off their basic priciples. the higher you rev, the more ignition-advance you have to give. but compression-time is only about halve compared to a 4T, meaning their just isn't enough time to compress the mixture even if the rest off the engine is fysically capable off revving higher.

- ECU : you mean the little black box that control's the ignition on those little strokers (no fuel injection/tractioncontrol) ? not much you can do with that .

- bore restriction : there ain't overly-square 2-strokes, again because off their basic priciples. 2-strokes work best with a close to square bore/stroke ratio

- min weight : as pointed out above : they have a combined racer/bike weight limit.

;)


Two strokes use less advance in the upper rev range when the engine is 'on pipe', although you only have half the time available when on pipe with 100% throttle your governed by the laws of thermdynamics , some 2T's work better with over suare dimensions like trials bikes, 250 mxers all use a 66.4 X72mm undersquare dimensions . All comes down to intended use and rpm.
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Re: MOTO 3 Out of the blue & into the black

Postby dave pearce on Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:25 pm

This topic has been dead since June and someone is still talking about 2strokes.
Most of us have strong reservations about whether Moto 3 is a good or a bad thing.
BUT the plain facts are it's HERE and it's time to get over it and embrace the new.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby TwoStroke Institute on Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:56 am

Nobody is obliged to embrace anything, if someone thinks it's a crock of shit and gives some well thought out analysis of why then that's good enough for me. :D
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby oldboyonrgv on Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:38 am

To Answer a few questions here.
Thr Honda NSF makes about 45BHP in std trim and costs 1,840,000.00 Yen.
KTM have yet to publish figures.... and seem to have blown hot and cold over the last 5 months regarding their prouct.
There are various other iterations of MOTO3 out there:
Mahindra
IODA
Kalex
TSR

All with either
Honda
KTM
Oral engines fitted
On the next rung down
There was a sniff of a Kawaszki lump being put in one
Obviously I know of a Yamaha Lump in one.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby Gustav O on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:28 am

I hear rumours about the KTM engines being powerful but having serious issues with reliability. One rumour is that no engine has lasted longer than 300 km. Anyone know more about this?
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby oldboyonrgv on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:57 am

Many current rumors about both the Honda and KTM being a bit fragile.... all behind closed doors atm though, they will get it sorted before the start of the season.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby Gustav O on Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:15 pm

Question is who gets it sorted best? I hope it is not Honda as it would be refreshing to have KTM, Oral or Mahindra doing well.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby sailor22 on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:14 pm

Does KTM have any web location where I can find out more info about their Moto3 effort?

No response when I emailed and asked for help finding info about their program - You would think that they would bother to provide some info about things like teams, riders, testing and overall progress. Not very good at PR.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby oldboyonrgv on Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:28 am

You will struggle to find any meaningful information regarding both the KTM and works Honda MOTO3 bikes all the official stuff is press blurb.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby sailor22 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:12 pm

You will struggle to find any meaningful information regarding both the KTM and works Honda MOTO3 bikes all the official stuff is press blurb.


That's what I'm finding. What a waste of an energetic and interested group of owners and race fans. It's not unusual fro KTM to completely screw the pooch when it comes to PR but Honda dropping the ball is a surprise.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby dave pearce on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:41 pm

We only have to wait until Monday in Valencia. Several Moto3 teams will be testing. We need to wish them well as there is now little time before the start of the season.I am sure that the cynics are itching to see things go wrong, just remember

" One must wait until the evening to see how splendid the day has been"
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby oldboyonrgv on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:55 am

I think I will be checking the live timing tomorrow!!
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby oldboyonrgv on Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:48 am

Moto3
1.- Luis Salom, 1’43.2 (32 laps)
2.- Alberto Moncayo, 1’43.3 (52 laps)
3.- Héctor Faubel, 1’43.7 (62 laps)
3.- Sandro Cortese, 1’43.7 (48 laps)
5.- Nikklas Ajo, 1’43.9 (50 laps)
6.- Danny Kent, 1’44.6 (45 laps)
7.- Zulfahmi Khairuddin, 1’45.4 (44 laps)
8.- Arthur Sissis, 1’45.9 (45 laps)
9.- Brad Binder, 1’47.2 (25 laps)
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby oldboyonrgv on Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:48 am

Honda not running?
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby Cam D on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:28 pm

Is there some where we can see a little more detail about the times/bikes etc?
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby oldboyonrgv on Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:59 pm

Err no all very sketchy....
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby Gustav O on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:55 pm

TSR experimenting with some modifications on the NSF250R.

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BORA and KRP are building a frame for the NSF250R engine.
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Last edited by Gustav O on Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MOTO 3

Postby Gustav O on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:59 pm

Danny Kents KTM

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